Another untrue, over generalized stereotype about military parents.
I said “some”…not all.
Of course not all, but not even many, IMO.
And related to that, mental health services in the military (active, retired and family benefits) are underfunded, understaffed and overtaxed…
Interested in hearing if you feel that this is not an issue in the Asian American community, at least any more than in any other community. Is it just sensationalist reporting.
With regards to the military, ptsd/ depression are very much real and a concern and not stigmatized, although it is underfunded.
We all want to think the way we’re raising our kids is the best way. To answer the OP’s question, a lot of non-Asian parents (including myself here) want to believe that having high expectations without going crazy about it is ideal. So we love reading about the supposed excesses of the tiger moms. At the same time we have a grudging respect for them because their methods produce results.
You haven’t seen a Tiger Mom yet until you meet a white Upper-West Side one from New York City.
And by the way, Jamaican and Ghanan moms are Tiger Moms too.
Being demanding and having expectations that children get a good education is not what people have a problem with. It’s the sort of overly controlling attitude that is applied to it that can in some cases be considered child abuse that really gets to people. That will work for some people, but there are just as many kids that will either be mentally scarred or simply disown their parents later in life if they are pushed in ways that they shouldn’t be. I’d rather not generalize about Asian vs EE vs African education because there is a lot more to that than can be simply addressed.
Article on tiger parenting: http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2013/05/_tiger_mom_study_shows_the_parenting_method_doesn_t_work.html
On the daughters of Amy Chua and what they said about it: do you really think anyone would come out and say that their parents were terrible, even if they thought so? Especially in the highly ancestor-reverent culture of Asia, that is never going to happen. It’s better to look at the bigger picture.
Not necessarily, especially in the eyes of such parents regardless of race.
The mass media tends to focus on the successes atm…and for every success there are likely plenty of “failures” even if they may not be from more objective purposes.
It could take the form of Ivy/elite college or bust taken to ridiculous extremes popularly discussed on CC or other forms.
Such as the obsessed sport parents who express disappointment/anger if their child doesn’t get into the NFL/NBA or a case I personally know of… the 20+ year Marine Vietnam veteran/former drill instructor father who was openly angry and disappointed when his son failed to gain admission to Annapolis or any of the FSAs and worse didn’t appreciate the fact his son managed to earn a full Army ROTC scholarship to a private college which fully defrayed all expenses of attendance.
Do you guys as parents ever realize that you’re being too involved? I ask this because the other day at school some local kids mom literally came in and asked for an extension on his behalf. He’s like 17, he really should be taking on these kind of responsibilities himself, right? Or are my parents just too hands off?
I mean my parents ask a lot of me, have very high standards and it can be very stressful, especially being LGBT in the home of Russian immigrants. But I know that my parents will support me in whatever way they know how and I’ve learned to feel quite bad for the people who cross my mom (self included lol). Having said that, they expect me to take charge of my education and my life. My parents would never come to a teacher like that, and they would never direct my courseload or write an admission essay for me, as I know some other kids have.
@4thfloor So true on that! West African parents in general are incredibly strict from my experience. Maybe it is an immigrant tendency on the whole. Because now that I think about it, those I know whose parents have the highest expectations and who put the most stress on them are other first generation Americans.
Immigrants self select for high levels of motivation (to move to a different country). Also, the immigration system’s preferences mean that immigrants coming from overseas are more likely to be highly educated (e.g. skilled worker or PhD student visas) compared to either non-immigrant Americans or other people in the immigrants’ source country.
Probably the main reason that people do not talk or write about African immigrants and their American children like they talk or write about Asian immigrants and their American children is that the former are small in number compared to the total number of black people in the US, while the latter make up a substantial percentage of Asian people in the US. I.e. people focus on the more visible aspects of race and ethnicity, rather than immigrant or first generation American status.
If this is an unfounded stereotype, why are the Asian students complaining so loudly on this site? Why are there articles such as this one calling for special support for Asian mental health because their culture is uniquely creating excessive stress? The Asian students are saying it. Should we just pat them on the head and tell them it’s all just a stereo type and they are wrong? http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2016/1/21/harvard-aapi-mental-health/
^I have to agree, there are a lot of posts from Asian students out here complaining about pressure from their parents, and other Asian students sympathizing with them.
Guess when I read it, I thought there are extremes in any family and ethnic group and this is no different. Also always think, ‘why do they always want to show extremes to sell books, TV shows, movies or whatever!’ so took this with a big grain of salt.
Back to College Confidential: when my son graduated from Engineering at Georgia Tech, 1,000 engineering students graduated. It was so telling that there were only a few white students and my brother asked me why I thought this was? (Yes, the overwhelming majority were a rainbow of Asian faces: Indian, Chinese, Vietnamese, etc etc.) I said, ‘I was sure my son starting in 7th grade received extra help from me or tutoring any time he did not understand a concept. Then in high school, we talked about what he wanted and he wanted to attend a top university’. So I spent a lot of time ensuring he had tutoring he needed either at the high school or out of pocket when I didn’t have a high income at all. He also said he chose to hang out with the kids who wanted to do really well in school.
In the last 25 years the majority of Asians: Indian, Chinese, Korean, Vietnamese, ets etc came to the US to get educated, especially PhDs. Many are the parents of these kids at top universities. The other group of poorer Asians look around and see that to get ahead, you must get the best education. A LOT of Asian parents are highly educated themselves and anyone will tell you, that the higher the education of the parents, the higher the education level of the children. As a group, they have higher levels of education that a lot of other groups of Americans.
Point being, many non Asian families do not want to help their children do the work it takes to get into a top university. So we all make excuses about why the Asians do get in and believe everything we read. Asians for sure, discipline their children to study and even the poor understand that they can get ahead if their children study hard they have a better life than running a grocery store or restaurant.
I do think the rest of America can do the same. It’s just a shame that most of us don’t instill this drive and do the hard work to ensure they are on that path…
NT
I am a white tiger mother, with some ambivalence about my expectations. I don’t have time to micromanage, but I do expect commitment to study and ECs.
My younger daughter, 14, said that parents make their kids work hard so the kids don’t get bored. I thought about this for a while and decided it is true. Bored kids sometimes read or write books , they may discover they like the woods and so become environmentalists, but too often, in this country, they discover they like drugs or hookin’ up. Very sad, but shockingly true.
I once thought soccer moms were a bit crazy, but really it’s just a form of tiger parenting. I now feel a great connection with those involved, committed women, even though I have no interest in sports. Tiger parenting protects children.
I do not have any respect, not even grudging respect, for a family that visits Athens and does not go to see the Parthenon, when the reason is that the mother wants the daughters to continue to practice the piano uninterruptedly (Chua’s family, and I hope no others). That is not “setting high standards.” It’s something entirely different. I have no quarrel at all with parents who expect hard work and also involvement in EC’s. I question the sense of insisting on 6 hours a day of violin practice, if the child does not want to practice 6 hours a day. (It would be fine if the child is in love with the instrument and actually wants to practice six hours a day.) I’ve pretty much said all there is to say about infuriating a child so much that the child leaves bite marks on a piano, and about insistence on perfecting “The Little White Donkey,” with no food or bathroom breaks for hours, until the syncopation is right.
In connection with the comment by rkelly5182, “Also always think, ‘why do they always want to show extremes to sell books, TV shows, movies or whatever!’ so took this with a big grain of salt,” I think it should be borne in mind that the Chua extreme was put out there by Chua herself. How many of the people who have commented on this thread had any idea that the extremes would reach that level? As I commented earlier, I could only imagine it in fiction. I definitely do not think that Chua anticipated the extent of the negative reaction to her book. Why not? Also, why did her publisher not warn her about that? Did they just assume that she would certainly anticipate the negative reaction? Or did they actually warn her? As far as the publisher’s motives go, it’s clear that money can be made from publishing extreme stories.
I feel sorry for Chua herself, for the time when as a student of roughly middle-school age, her father berated her for coming in second in a competition, and said that she should never humiliate him again like that. I remember how excited I was, at about the same age, to come in fourth in the local spelling bee, and how happily I told my parents that the girl who won ate lunch at the same table as I did, every day! They were happy, too! (The way these things go, I was actually more excited that year than the next, when I won.)
That’s a prime example of the kind of thing that ultimately doesn’t matter that misguided “tiger parents” put too much effort into. Instead of focusing on 2nd place vs 1st place in a kid’s competition or whether they have a 97% or 98% in the class, they should focus on the macro-scale stuff, like how well they are finishing school and how they pursue worthy goals in life. Ultimately, that matters a lot more than winning a spelling bee or some other middle school competition.
I think part of the “Tiger Mom” phenomena is due as much to the why mothers are the way they are than that are so strict. I familiar thread in conversations concerning Asian mothers in particular is the idea of how well a student does and where they go to school affects “family honor”. Failing to achieve is not just a choice the child made it reflects on the entire family and the perception of how others will view them. Most other cultures don’t seem to carry it to this extreme. I think we often think of “helicopter parenting” and “Tiger Mom” as the same. I think a tiger mom can be a helicopter parent but a helicopter parent is not necessarily a tiger mom.
First, I admit I have not read Amy Chua’s book.
Second, the thing that bothers me is the way some people use her very extreme examples to somehow extrapolate her actions to a whole racial group and their parenting-style. I live in the Midwest and the “rainbow of Asian faces” (I like that description rkelly5182) don’t seem to be the product of such an extreme environment. In my limited observations, there is a disconnect between the loving, involved parents I have as friends, and what I read in the media. It makes me question how prevalent Amy Chua’s tiger parenting really is.
That said, I would never discount the pain that some Asian CC posters are experiencing. They need empathy and assistance in dealing with their situation. However, I think it is wrong to characterize this diverse group based on one woman’s book. In my opinion it denigrates the achievements of the group as a whole and unfortunately, perhaps that is the intent.