Once children has obsessions, hobbies, delights. My siblings were variously obsessed with dog obedience, reading, motorcycles, poetry, fast cars, hiking, sewing/fashion. Without digital distraction, plenty of kids still find passions on their own.
Earlier I wrote that my kid wants to play two instruments, more or less against my wish to pay for and travel to 2 sets of lessons, and some one writes that I “fabricated” her as a Tiger Cub. It couldn’t possibly be that she likes music on her own. Sad times have come to American childhood.
When you write a book to glorify the way you raised your children, I think asking for people’s respect or opinion is exactly what you are trying to do.
Did it ever occur to anyone that Chua is tongue-in-cheek and the joke is on you? The women is Yale Law faculty, Eastern elite. She made herself a national phenomenon, both her kids are at Harvard (doing well), and she increased her already might 6 figures.
I wonder if people read the book. It is funny, and she admits at the end the method doesn’t always work. Remember Jonathan Swift’s “A Modest Proposal” and Orson Wells “War of the Worlds.”
Yes, a lot of us read the book and discussed it when it came out. I don’t really GAS that both her kids are at Harvard because I’m not the kind of pathetic loser who defines that as the goal of parenting or the meaning of life. Good for her, but there’s really nothing about her I envy.
@flyaround I’m Korean-American and there is a word for “depression” in Korean, so that statement is patently false. I would agree, in general, that many Asian parents are strict and care deeply about their kids education and future, just like many non-Asian parents do (as pointed out by many posters). What we must remember is that the majority of kids in the most select colleges in the US are white. And I would bet that many of those white kids grew up in an environment not too dissimilar to the stereotypical Asian families. What the general public needs to realize is that the extreme examples of Amy Chua’s parenting method (e.g. 6h piano practice) are not the norm, even in the Asian community. I obviously know many Asian parents and their kids and I have never seen nor heard of any parent who pushed for 6h practice of any instruments, sports, or studying to their kids. In my family, our three kids are all doing quite well in school but we never “push” them to do anything they do not wish to do. In fact, we stopped their piano lessons when they were young, since none of them really showed any interests (which all of my three kids now regret and the youngest recently asked us for piano lessons). I also see that some of my kids’ non-Asian friends, both white and African-American, have much stricter rules (e.g. no sleepovers, grounded for a “B”, etc.) than my own. So I just want to end by stating that we must be careful not to generalize the “stereotypes” to any gender, race or religion (e.g. Trump’s generalization of Mexicans and Muslims).
The book is totally tongue-in-cheek ( and I’m midwestern!). And I absolutely believe Chua counted on the negative reaction to the book. It’s what made the book sell. If it were just another love, praise and 8 hours of sleep each night parenting book it would have been on the Barnes & Noble 70% off table in 2 weeks like all the others. And while Harvard doesn’t define success any more than Frostburg State, by all accounts this is a happy, successful, hard-working couple with two bright, well adjusted, successful kids who love their parents. Call me a pathetic loser for thinking that might be the definition of parenting and the meaning of life. There’s a lot of ways to skin a cat and I find people’s abreaction to this book humorous. Chua finds it humorous and lucrative.
Well, no, not really. In fact, they tend to grow up in environments that fit a different set of stereotypes, which are more likely to lead to success in getting into highly selective colleges, a fact which is annoying to folks who are following a playbook that works for the educational path in Asia.
“In fact, they tend to grow up in environments that fit a different set of stereotypes, which are more likely to lead to success in getting into highly selective colleges”
What is actually different? In my view, the majority of kids at the most select colleges probably grew up in families that “pushed” (encouraged) their kids in academics, sports, or arts. This is what I was referring to as being similar, not Amy Chua’s extreme parenting.
Whatever, mamalion. (Was that supposed to be a zing? Um, ouch, I guess.)
You can go find the older Chua thread (I think it is from early 2011) in which a lot of us, myself included, read the book and discussed it. We were perfectly capable of understanding the nuances, including that the book was to some extent a journey where she admits at the end it didn’t work with her second daughter. But she undergoes no real epiphany about some of the stupid at best (piano over Parthenon) and cruel at worst (prevent the kid from leaving the piano bench to go to the bathroom, throw a 4 yo’s handmade birthday card in her face and say it’s not good enough( things she did. She shows no insight into why it’s so important to her own ego that the girls be number one in everything. And the husband is an ineffectual joke who goes along for the ride. She’s just not impressive to me nor does she have anything I want. Sorry. Feel free to be in awe of her if you like. I’m not. QuantMech and I will be out touring the Parthenon.
Let me preface my remarks by saying (although it shouldn’t really be necessary) that the patterns I’m going to describe don’t apply to all Asian families, or to all non-Asian families; that they don’t necessarily apply to families who aren’t interested in highly selective colleges; and that there are bound to be people reading this who don’t know anybody like the families I am about to describe.
My observation is that what is most different is that cultural norms lead some Asian families to restrict the range of activities done by their children, whereas non-Asian families (at least those clued-in to elite college admissions in the United States) support and encourage a broader range of activities for their kids. A concrete example of this is the very strong emphasis in Asian families on violin or piano, to the exclusion of other instruments. Non-Asian families are much less likely to do this–and doing it is a tactical mistake if the goal is elite college admissions.
Note: one reason that this stereotype is so well known about Asian parents is that it is spread by lots of Asian kids (who, I suspect, are simultaneously annoyed by it and proud of it). “Crazy Asian Mother by Erick Liang” was posted on Youtube in 2005 and has more than 6 million views. Many of us have heard Asian kids talking about the “Asian F” (known to others as a B). Some of the same cultural norms apply to other groups, especially other immigrant t groups–but I think they just aren’t as numerous.
@Hunt I think what you said about restricting the range of activities might be applicable to some Asian (also non-Asian) families who work long hours and cannot afford to “drive” their kids to many activities. Perhaps, these families tend to be more of the first generation immigrants. The Asian families in my circle do indeed explore to “find out” what their kids like/dislike early on and focus on those activities. For example, we started our kids on ice hockey, figure skating, equestrian, etc. early on and none of my kids do any of these activities now. Some of my friends kids do fencing, cheerleading, poms, play harp, and so on. It is perhaps a human nature to generalize one’s own experience to fit the stereotype, but I can assure you that there are many Asian families that “explore” and parent their kids like the parents you are describing.
Anamgol, where do you live? I think that make a difference in how much you see these cultural norms play out. I can assure you that where I live, in the DC suburbs, there are many Asian families that do fit the stereotype. Indeed, many of them are first-generation immigrant families. It’s a joke among the kids–violin or piano, tennis (or maybe ping pong), test prep, and lots of “studying” (beyond homework). Parents discourage other activities. Ice hockey? Forget it.
So maybe this phenomenon is localized–but if it is, it’s probably in places that tend to get more publicity when it comes to education, like New York, Washington, and a few other metropolitan areas. That doesn’t mean that it isn’t real, though.
Hunt, I know that lie is the simple word, but in fact, there are many words that describe the difficulty of getting at the truth: satire, irony, joke, wishes, counterfactuals, omission, denial (Freudian), hyperbole, fantasy, utopias, compliment, etc. Even the 10 Commandments only forbid “false witnessing,” I suspect, because it is impossible to be factual all the time and get at complexity. Even God accepts irony and satire.
When you call Chua a liar, it reflects very badly on the complexity of your thinking.
“Feel free to be in awe of her if you like.” Ouch back.
I did not say I was in awe, though I do appreciate other people’s abilities. I find life much richer when I can engage other world views and not sit home thinking that I have it all.
I engaged her world views plenty. I think there are some parts to admire and some parts not to admire. I am a product of mainstream American culture but I think the emphasis on sports in that culture is overblown / misplaced. I don’t know why you think I’m not capable of nuance.
"We are talking about schlepping the whole family, including grandparents, on a trip to see some of the most amazing cultural sights in the world and instead of enjoying them with the family, insisting the kids miss them because the world will come to a crashing halt if they miss one practice session on the piano. For what stupid purpose? That’s OCD, frankly. " - I am missing something here, like totally not getting it. Why should I care about this family? Don’t I have enough of my own things to care about? Why anybody on this thread care about them? We can call it OCD or whatever, but the fact that we so deeply care about them, will not affect their lives, not at all, zero affect. As I said, my own kid decided to practice her piano (imaginary) on every trip also, so she is OCD? Or I am OCD? And if we both OCD, why anybody else would care? Let them all be OCD, at the end, somehow, they are very happy, very achieved and contributing much more to the society than society spend on them for one reason - because their parents cared!