Look at the examples in post #14 for a family earning $100K in Maryland, which has a B1G flagship.
LACs like Haverford or Bates may be significantly cheaper for such a family than UM-CP (even at Maryland’s in-state rates.)
In addition to offering lower net prices to many low- to middle-income students, LACs offer smaller classes. Virtually all their classes are taught by professors (almost never by TAs). LACs (the more selective ones, anyway) tend to have higher on-time graduation rates than most B1G schools (e.g. 91% 4 year graduation rates at Haverford v. 66% for UM-CP or 56% for Wisconsin). Selective LACs tend to draw students from all over the country (with much higher percentages of OOS students than B1G universities enroll). They tend to have relatively understated (or no) Greek and D1 sports scenes. Some students prefer the resulting campus atmosphere at LACs. Others don’t.
I can understand paying more to attend a top LAC over a big instate university; it’s a totally different experience. My comment was more directed at attending a larger private school, as if there is such a difference in educational quality over a top public.
However, not all students will find an acceptable fit at a small LAC or other small school, in terms of the more limited academic offerings at smaller schools. Also, limiting the search to small LACs with good financial aid means having a smaller set of LACs to find a good or acceptable fit in.
The thing is that most of those private schools aren’t that interested in the kids who need a lot of financial aid unless those kids are brilliant, athletes or underrepresented minorities. Private colleges like full pay students if they are not superstars
Some people don’t care about research opportunities, especially if they are majoring in something like English. Also, some people want to be in classrooms with 14 other students sitting around a table with a prof rather than be in big lecture halls with 200.
Here is another observation of mine, based on my community: these kids who are in the 4th and 5th decile with ACT scores of 24 - average students ( which is fine)- who would never get into Bing or Geneseo- go to OS or PS or sometimes UMD ( if they manage to get in)- and they often, for many different reasons, have a hard time with the work. They stay for the sports and the party. Do they sit front and center in the lecture hall? No. Do they attend office hours and make sure their name is known? No. Do they participate in discussions which DO take place in a lecture? No. Do they go to internship fairs? No. So these kids are being pushed into these schools by their parents because they are " better" than SUNY, yet fail to engage in the positive things that these schools have to offer, besides the sports. Then they graduate and are unemployed, and their parents say, Penn State did not get my son a job." The truth is that their son did not engage in the type of behavior which would help land him a job. I dealt with this in HS- they want the benefits without doing the work that is necessary. Entitlement- sorry that’s another topic.
I attended a Big Ten university, and I actually met more than a couple of people there who said they decided to attend because of the sports team and parties. Not much else. Nothing about “oh they have a great ____ program here…”
I also know people who attended just because of the pretty campus. I think that is a deciding factor at many schools, though, Big ten or regional, public or private…
How many Big 10 universities have excellent Engineering or Business programs? How many of them have strong departments in the traditional departments.
ENGINEERING:
Illinois #5
Michigan #6
Purdue #9
Northwestern #13
Wisconsin #14 (top 5 in Chem E)
Penn State #18
Maryland #23
Minnesota top 23 (top 5 in Chem E)
Ohio State #27
BUSINESS
Michigan #4
Indiana #10
Illinois #15
Minnesota #15
Wisconsin #15
Ohio State #21
Michigan State #22
Penn State #22
Purdue #22
Maryland #22
CHEMISTRY
Illinois #6
Northwestern #7
Wisconsin #9
Michigan #15
Penn State #21
Purdue #21
Indiana #24
Minnesota #24
COMPUTER SCIENCE
Illinois #5
Wisconsin #11
Michigan #13
Maryland #14
Minnesota #29
Penn State #29
ECONOMICS
Northwestern #7
Minnesota #11
Michigan #13
Wisconsin #13
Maryland #22
Penn State #27
Michigan State #30
MATHEMATICS
Michigan #9
Wisconsin #14
Illinois #17
Maryland #17
Minnesota #17
Northwestern #17
Rutgers #23
Ohio State #28
Penn State #28
Purdue #28
PHYSICS
Illinois #7
Michigan #11
Maryland #14
Wisconsin #18
Ohio State #23
Penn State #23
Minnesota #26
Northwestern #26
Michigan State #29
Rutgers #29
POLITICAL SCIENCE
Michigan #4
Ohio State #15
Wisconsin #15
Minnesota #19
Northwestern #21
Illinois #23
Indiana #25
Maryland #28
Penn State #28
PSYCHOLOGY
Michigan #4
Illinois #7
Minnesota #9
Wisconsin #9
Northwestern #14
Ohio State #21
Indiana #26
Penn State #30
Iowa #30
While the Big 10 may be well known for incredibly spirited and beautiful campuses, large stadiums, winning athletic traditions etc…, clearly it is the top notch academic programs that entice parents to send there kids there for college. Anywhere from 25% to 30% of the top 30 programs in each discipline belongs to the Big 10.
Hey guys, I’ve been reading this thread. It entirely comes down to how much parents can compensate. If you’re an only child, your higher are so high than someone who came from a large family. A great example will be me. I’m an only child making me go to any school I want, regardless of how much it is. Now compared that too, if I had brothers and sisters. I wouldn’t go to a liberal art school I would go to a state school like SUNY or California State. That way my brothers HAVE a chance of going to college. If I were to go to a liberal art that cost like $60,000 per year, my brother and sister won’t be able to go to college.
Moderator’s note: This thread went far astray. I’ve deleted the bickering about the SUNY schools. Please focus on the topic of the thread, which is the reception of the Big 10 schools on CC.
I think the issue is no matter how highly ranked the Big 10 schools are it is for research and that is the professors’ main focus. It says nothing of the quality of the undergraduate teaching and most students who attend these schools still need to be taught.
Here is my issue with the Big 10 schools (not all of them, and the issue is really with the kids/parents and not the schools). My friends daughter currently goes to a Big 10- not Michigan etc. The school was a reach for her according to guidance and according to an admissions counselor she met with locally. The girl wants a science healthcare field. She got into programs with merit at some other “lower” schools but turned them down. She came into this Big 10 undecided (was told to do undecided by the counselor she met with) and started her science classes. She dropped them because she could not keep up with the work, but is staying at the school because of the rah rah football and is changing her major to one that is not as science based. Meanwhile she got into an honors program with merit at a “lower” school in the exact field she wanted. Her mother is beside herself and yesterday she told me that she is paying $40,000 a year for a sleep away camp experience.
Big 10 schools are excellent, however this is the typical profile of students from our HS who attend many of them. They ARE loved…by the students who enjoy the social scene and got in as a reach. This girl loves loves loves her school. She will not take advantage of the other non-social things that this school has to offer. Her mother now thinks she was accepted for the tuition that she brings in.
I hope I did not stray too far from the topic. I am trying to express some of the reasons why my daughter did not choose a Big 10. She got into several honors programs with a lot of merit money. I am confident that she would have found her niche at these schools, but she had no interest in trying.
I am going to add this and hope that it’s ok: the typical student noted above from our HS that gains acceptance to these Big 10 schools as a (big) reach gets rejected from Binghamton. None of them get accepted to Bing, while most get accepted to a Big 10.
Again, this is what my daughter did not like about some of the Big 10 schools.
twogirls-I am surprised that students would get into schools like Michigan but not Binghamton. Even if they are increasing the number of OOS, the NY students I know in places like Michigan are stronger than the ones I know from Binghamton.
In general, the Big10 seems well respected (in the forums I hang out in!) on CC. There is an elite private vs. everyone else vibe on CC (especially students), but that’s to be expected.
Most of the critiques I’ve read in this thread, have more to do with some of the students that attend Big10 schools, than the schools themselves.
SUNY at Binghamton(25 and 75 Percentile)
SAT Critical Reading 590 670
SAT Math 620 700
SAT Writing 580 670
ACT Composite 27 30
Ohio State University-Main Campus (25/75 Percentile)
SAT Critical Reading 540 660
SAT Math 620 730
SAT Writing 560 660
ACT Composite 27 31
So, yes, based on the bottom 25 percentile (and using OSU as an example), Bing has higher admission requirements (than a typical Big10 school, clearly U-M and a few others have higher requirements).
lostaccount I am not talking about Michigan. I am talking about schools such as Ohio State and Penn State. Many of the kids getting in to Bing would not get accepted to Michigan simply because Michigan lately only accepts 1-2 kids from our school - and usually it’s the same academic profile kid as Bing. Ohio State had about 80 kid apply and they accepted over 40. Same with Penn State- they had over 80 kids apply and they took about 40. The higher level kids accepted to OS and PS do not go. They turn down a lot of money to OS. The profile of the students at our HS who go to OS and PS are typically kids whose parents have money and would not gain acceptance into Bing ( 3.1 to 3.6 GPA taking regular classes, 21-25 ACT score). Same with Indiana- it’s a great school with a top business program, but kids from our HS with a 3.1 GPA taking regular classes and who have a 22 on the ACT get in (not into the business school) and attend because they bring in out of state tuitions. I live in an area where people will pay that kind of money without blinking. Then they boast that their kid is attending a top school- and they are, but the kids do not take advantage of what these schools have to offer (besides the rah rah party) and these kids are not anywhere as strong as the kids at Bing or Geneseo. CNN had a series awhile ago and they used Indiana as the example- it was called “Paying for the Party.” That’s what goes on here- and they have the money to do it. Big 10 schools are excellent- I agree- but at least where I live, a lot of “weaker” students (by CC standards) attend several of them simply because they have parents who can easily write out these big checks.
I know three boys who graduated from PS in May and remain unemployed. These were kids who went because they were able to spend the $45,000 to attend. They were all in the 4th-5th decile in HS and were average kids (average is fine BTW) taking regular classes (which is also fine BTW). One of these moms recently told me that “Penn State failed me” because “PS did not get xx a job.” I was not aware that a school gets a kid a job. I always thought that the kid gets him/herself a job by the drive and motivation of the kid. That’s what goes on here- nothing against PS. It’s a fine school with a great reputation, but the kids from our HS who attend are not always driven, go-getter kids and often are disappointed when they remain unemployed because a job was not handed to them.
Big 10 schools are EXCELLENT schools and have a lot to offer. My observations tell me that several of them (not Michigan and similar schools) accept kids simply because they want the out of state tuitions. This is the reason why top kids from our HS do not attend schools such as PS and OS (which by the way are outstanding schools).