<p>I think disappointed kids have a perfect right to stew, vent, resent, whatever. They’re 17 or 18 years old. I think their parents are entitled to do the same. And venting on CC is a better way to go than in the grocery store or the guidance counselor’s office - no real-life fallout.</p>
<p>But I think parents have an obligation to show their kids that they aren’t disappointed in them, that they think their kids will be happy and successful at the school that wants them - in short, that the rejection, whether unfair or not, is NOT the defining moment in the kid’s life and is not major enough to merit more than a day or so of grousing. So I think parents should vent, but not where their kids can hear them, and then should make a show of moving on, even if they privately need more time.</p>
<p>Ah yes, we have to protect our kids from “real life consequences” at all cost. What the OP was referring to when she started this thread amounts to cyberbullying in some cases. The venters want to make others (accepted students) feel bad so that they can feel good. </p>
<p>Agreed. Barring lying on the application, it is not the fault of the ones who did get accepted that the process was seemingly unfair or capricious.</p>
Ah, I didn’t see a reference to cyberbullying, which I think of as being more personal than venting, even when venting does rise to the level of vitriol. But nowhere, Tom, did I encourage protecting kids from “real life consequences.” I meant that people should acknowledge their feelings of disappointment in an appropriate place (and CC being nominally anonymous, that seems appropriate enough) and move on. Is that not okay?</p>
<p>But that’s just it. Some of the kids may be ending exactly where they would have ended up without all of those extras. That is NOT to say I think the sports, music, travel, CS, etc are a waste! Those are great experiences to have. But the stress of taking the most rigorous courses, lack of sleep, stress, stress, stress…that may have been a waste, and detrimental to the students. It would be very frustrating to put in all that extra effort and end up at the same place as the kids who did not put in that effort. It may end up being a place they are happy, it may not. </p>
<p>“Acknowledging feelings if disappointment” is one thing, but disparaging schools who didn’t select them is another.
And while CC and othe online message boards are anonymous, there are other 17 and 18 year olds who are reading, and absorbing some pretty harsh, sometimes petty statements. I’ve had 2 kids go thru the process, and even schools that WL or offered spring admits had positive reasons for them to have applied. They aren’t suddenly “ridiculous” or “full of themselves”.
Some of them remain options for my son to consider. Am I the outlier??</p>
<p>I don’t think you’re an outlier at all - it seems that most posters here agree with your POV. My kids have never read CC, so I don’t know whether they’d have been hurt by people putting down the schools that accepted them or not. I personally would not have considered that “cyberbullying” unless the message was intentionally personal, but there’s obviously a wide range of definitions for that term. </p>
<p>It seems to me as disparaging when people make negative comments about schools at other times throughout the year - when folks are asking which schools should go on a kid’s list, or simply asking for impressions about any given school. I’ve seen all of my kids’ very good schools put down, often by people who know nothing about them other than what they’ve read on CC. When people are venting their vitriol at schools that waitlisted or rejected them, my own immediate thought is “sour grapes” and so I don’t take it personally, but I realize that many do.</p>
<p>I can’t say I don’t understand some of the frustration. There can be a disconnect between who a college SAYS they want and who they actually accept. They can talk about passion to learn for learning sake but sorry, if you haven’t played the game and opted for anthropology (because it fascinates you) instead of chemistry… you are out. I agree that the hard push by some of the most elite schools to get under-qualified kids to apply is maddening. It’s incredibly frustrating that the schools a middle class family can afford are either in-state publics (which can be great but also huge and impacted) or elite privates who meet full need but require perfection to get in (and not all incredible kids make it through their teens without some hiccups.) Yes, there are merit options but not always at schools that foster that high performing kid who really does have a passion for learning and a need to be with their intellectual peers. </p>
<p>The admissions process can be grueling. The deadlines, all the essays, all the testing, the pressure from counselors, trying to get recommendations in a timely manner from people who aren’t as invested as you are lol. All the college tours, travel expenses, hours at info nights. There can be a lot of soul searching and bickering. Yes, it’s pretty easy for some kids but others… it can be really hard.</p>
<p>I admit to tearing up when my D was wait listed to her top college pick last night. It’s hard to see your kid hurt. I’m not sure “we like you but you can’t come here” feels better than straight rejection. We did the cheerleader thing. We had our little pity party with pizza and ice cream. Yes, that cynical comes out with your spouse when the kid goes to sleep… the knowledge that this particular school is “need aware” and quite upfront that 50 percent of their student body needs to be full pay. The guilt that we have as parents who just can’t shell out 220 grand out-of-pocket for one child’s education. The frustration in knowing that our D really needs this sort of learning environment but that the college didn’t get that from her application. In my case, I stayed off CC and instead called my husband and a good friend going through this with her own kid. This morning is about options and moving on. Am I still angry at the college? No. I mean, they have costs and the right to stay afloat. It’s not on THEM to find out who D is. Obviously, what D did wasn’t enough. D has other options and we’ll see what her 2nd and 3rd choice schools say. I’m just a bit sad and that will likely be the case for a while to come. </p>
<p>I am new to this thread and I am not here to say negative thoughts about any particular school, my reaction is more toward the overall application process. We have been what I would call fortunate overall, however it is tough when your child looks at you and asks the question “what could I have done differently?”. This came after he was first deferred from EA to RD from 1of his top 2 choices, then wait listed at RD time. Now the kicker or sting came moreover when another student from his school also applied to same school and was accepted EA. Trust me no sour grapes but confusion when said other student had lower QPA, SAT and lessEC. Frankly we don’t have an answer for that accept to tell him that the school just wasn’t meant to be and if they knew him like we do he would have been accepted. Sure it hurts but the truth is it took him less than a day to shake it off except during English class where the kid brags about his acceptance on a daily basis. It made our son stronger. I am happy for all the awesome acceptances I have seen here and hope all get a school where they will grow and make our country a better place. :-)</p>
<p>I agree that paying extra for sports, music, tutoring, and dance lessons is a waste if it is done only with the expectation that the student will get into a particular college or get a scholarship. We did those things because my kids enjoyed them, I thought they benefited from the activities at the time of participation, not for a college hook. My daughter played her sport because she liked it, not with the goal of going to college. In fact, she didn’t plan on playing in college, but changed her mind. She’s able to go to her chosen school because of the extra scholarship money. She’ll work for it (40+ hours/wk of practice, workouts and games) but the school gets exposure and entertainment for their other students.</p>
<p>There are a lot of sports and activities that I don’t see the value of (wrestling, Destination Imagination) but other people like them. The question is do the college admissions people think there is value, and is there enough value to become a hook? It doesn’t bother me that some colleges give wrestling scholarships or admit the DI champs, nor do I think that my daughter having to share a class with these students will bring down the IQ of her math class.</p>
<p>Of course we’re mad when we don’t get picked, when we don’t win the game, and we’re especially jealous when someone else does! Some day when I’m King, I’m going to make it so that I always win, that I’m always accepted to the schools and clubs I want to be part of. Until then, other people decide who they want to let into their schools, and if they value the athlete or the dancer or the super brain, then I have to try to fit into the ‘wanted’ group.</p>
<p>The admissions process is insane, but it’s only a high stakes game if you make it one. While I agree that high achieving students often want and should be in an intellectually challenging atmosphere surrounded by similar kids, such an experience can be had at countless State U Honors programs, and many quality schools that are highly ranked, but not in the top 20. It may be near impossible to get into HYPSM, but it’s not that difficult for a high stats kid to get into a great school/program and have a wonderful experience.</p>
<p>@Overtheedge I totally agree. There are many ways to get a good experience in college and certainly, the top 20 aren’t the only place to find it (and really, we’re talking the top 50+ that are pretty tough to get into these days.) Sometimes it just takes an adjustment period between when you learn you are unable to attend the ready made perfect school and when you accept that you can “make” that environment at the large public. Everyone is allowed their period of mourning though. It’s just ugly when you start trashing the school and belittling those that were accepted!</p>
<p>In many of the posts about Ivy acceptances/rejections, I sense an antipathy towards URMs and recruited athletes. As if all an URM has to do is wave his/her magic URM wand and - POOF - automatic acceptance at an Ivy League school.</p>
<p>The problem with this is that you never know the backstories of some of these acceptances. My son, who is an URM, “only” had 32 on his ACT. He graduated with a 3.96 UW and 5.0 W (5.2 scale) GPA. Even with his great grades, he never would have been Val or Sal because he wanted to take several unweighted classes. He did graduate in top 3% of his class. My son achieved that GPA while going through a horrific family situation that I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemy (not that I have any enemies ). This event started in the summer after his freshman year and drug on through the end of his junior year. Yes, basically, it occurred during the two most important years in high school. Was the student to whom the OP referred any more qualified than my son? I doubt it. My son had a high GPA, local and state music awards with no true leadership positions (not his style and I don’t count cricket club pres as a leadership position). I would say that my son was a spiky music candidate (composer, pianist and singer). He was accepted SCEA with the above credentials. After his acceptance, my son won a national classical musical scholarship that is only awarded to 20-25 young classical musicians a year and a Superior Musicianship award at the Berklee Jazz Festival. Obviously, the AO saw something in my son that made him think that he would be a valuable member of the Class of 2017. I personally think that he was spot on! </p>
<p>My son’s friend, also an URM, was a recruited athlete at Harvard. BTW- he had a 34 on his ACT and graduated in the top 5% of his class. </p>
<p>Both my son and his friend are thriving at their respective schools! </p>
<p>Overtheedge, I agree about the process and the State U Honors programs, but our pseudo state U Honors program is apparently so super selective from what I understand. I wish we had what I call a true in state U but alas our Commenwealth school charges about 30k for instate students. And with 0 aid for a large percentage of instate students, they can go to a private school for less $$$. That does honestly make little sense to me. Goodness knows I am pretty clueless never going through this before and truly wish I understood why we are so pricey compared to other amazing state schools.</p>
<p>What Xiggi? You didn’t like the peace sign? I took it away so you wouldn’t be so bummed. Wouldn’t want to bum you out over the weekend. Peace out!</p>
<p>But that implies working hard is the most important/sole criterion for admission. That is problematic as one can be hard working and working inefficiently or worse, working hard so mindlessly one ends up with mediocre or horrid results. </p>
<p>Accepting those who are the best by highest GPA/test scores is one quantifiable way adcoms and sometimes even employers use as a systematic means to separate out those who consistently get good results…whether through hard work and/or something else and those who may have worked hard…but whose results didn’t quite cut the mustard. </p>
<p>If anything, this is something I see quite often in the workplace as someone who is a hard worker, but inefficient or worse, mindless about it can actually undermine productivity through wasted time/effort or worse, horrid results which could actually harm the bottom line. </p>
<p>There’s an applicable line I recalled from a childhood show which is very apt here: “It’s better to work smarter than harder”. </p>
<p>To be clear, I am not disparaging hard work as one of many important factors as IME…“smart, but lazy” colleagues can be equally damaging on the productivity front in the workplace. </p>
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<p>This point would be taken with far less skepticism if there hadn’t been news and prevalent accounts of how HS/Div 1 college athletes are often given a pass on those tests/projects, graded easier on them by admin fiat, given passes on bad/criminal behaviors, have whole college classes/majors dedicated to them so they can focus on athletics, etc. </p>
<p>Two recent examples of what I listed above in the news is the recent athletic scandal at UNC and Stubenville. </p>
<p>I also read an essay written in the early '90s by an incoming university president at an academically respectable big sports school. It decries the disgrace at his new employer’s long history of allowing student athletes who were functionally illiterate to be admitted and then graduate with their university’s degrees and thus, setting them for long-term failure in life. </p>
<p>I do not understand folks who think that money or time is wasted on an activity that enriches their kids. </p>
<p>You can’t assume that music or art lessons or athletics or whatever will be your ticket in. It has made your kid interesting, though.</p>
<p>All these things help make our kids disciplined. They teach them to think differently. Maybe work in a team environment. So many lessons that have lifelong consequences. </p>
<p>Something like 3-5% of all high school athletes land a spot in NCAA sports in college. Depends on sport. Most kids do sports in high school because they like them. They enjoyed the camaraderie. It kept them busy and focused and fit. It might help them get into a college. But they didn’t just do it for that. They put in the time because they wanted to do something fun with friends. Up until the last minute of the recruiting process, my kid wasn’t sure if she was going to get a spot in her university, and then she still had to be admitted based on the academics and other extracurriculars and GPA and test scores. She spent about 5 straight years from middle school on, about 350 days a year training with various teams, camps, clinics and coaches for one sport, in addition to playing another sport as well in high school. She didn’t think it was going to be her ticket into college. It just was something she loved to do and was passionate about. </p>
<p>Or maybe students were in marching band. Or an artist or a robotics guru or who knows what else. Whatever kids do in high school helps them get to the finish line and beyond. They take those skills with them wherever they go in life. </p>
<p>@momofmusician17 The issue here is the exceptions do not make the rule. </p>
<p>The unfortunate fact is your two examples are not the norm. If they were the norm, schools would be more forthcoming in disavowing to use and need of preferences. There are no preferences required in your examples; they are qualified based on comparison to all other students and the only question is fit.</p>
<p>I really don’t mind parents who vent at a specific college… the college is a thing, not a person, and it doesn’t really care. But what does bug me is the parents who snipe (and encourage their kids to snipe) about other students they know getting in when their kid didn’t. As we discuss every spring out here, no one except the admissions committee truly knows everything that is in that other student’s application… or how your own student’s application was interpreted. You don’t know about the other kid’s recommendations, you may not know all the details of their ECs (both of my kids had activities that their classmates really had no idea about), you probably don’t know their test scores, their essays, ethnicity details, family situation, and financial situation.</p>
). This event started in the summer after his freshman year and drug on through the end of his junior year. Yes, basically, it occurred during the two most important years in high school. Was the student to whom the OP referred any more qualified than my son? I doubt it. My son had a high GPA, local and state music awards with no true leadership positions (not his style and I don’t count cricket club pres as a leadership position). I would say that my son was a spiky music candidate (composer, pianist and singer). He was accepted SCEA with the above credentials. After his acceptance, my son won a national classical musical scholarship that is only awarded to 20-25 young classical musicians a year and a Superior Musicianship award at the Berklee Jazz Festival. Obviously, the AO saw something in my son that made him think that he would be a valuable member of the Class of 2017. I personally think that he was spot on! 
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