Why you should vote for Obama

<p>Don't take my word "strict" to define the saying "strict guide". The other word in there is "GUIDE". As in I think we should definitely use it as a guide. I only bring in this argument because I think it is impossible for the constitution to be able to take into account the new developing problems of modern day. If these problems coincide with something written in the constitution for that purpose then they should have to follow those laws. But new and more profound problems need new and more profound thinking while using the constitution as a guide. So pretty much what I'm saying is I support u in saying we should follow the constitution...but more loosely...more as a guide but strictly if it covers what is being debated. So pretty much what I'm saying is on a case-to-case basis. As in not simply saying "no" because of the Constitution without looking into the issue.</p>

<p>And btw a libertarian will never win this election. It's like saying a Green party candidate would win...and the Green party is actually the 3rd party while the Libertarians (pretty much extremist repub) aren't even official. An extremist will never win this presidency.</p>

<p>^ but Ron Paul isn't running as a libertarian.... and his views are what the republican party's main views were years ago. </p>

<p>Unfortunately, we have become a nation of pansy-@ss moderates who can't take a stand on anything. We are a nation of "who panders to the most people" or "who p!sses off the fewest people". This is why we have people like Obama who refuse to take a stand on anything. Basically the entire Democratic party refuses to say what they believe on gun control because it p!sses a lot of people off. I think thats pathetic. If you can't get elected based on saying what you actually believe, then you shouldn't be elected... period. Ron Paul says what he believes, and he puts it all out there without reservation, and I think people respect that if nothing else.</p>

<p>O I do respect it...I just don't want him elected.</p>

<p>They aren't running a campaign of gun control because that isn't one of their main goals and it is extremely unlikely they would do anything about it in office because there is a lot of opposition to gun control. So why **** people off if the issue isn't even on their agenda?</p>

<p>Gun control would be a very bad idea., thogh the NRA would never allow it, they have more power, than most can belive and I am a lifelong member.</p>

<p>More guns the better/</p>

<p>More guns the better? I'm sure that the gun violence amongst youth is the greatest thing on earth. I'm not even arguing against the NRA, but that general statement right there needs to be re-worded.</p>

<p>Goat and Icarus, you are awesome :).</p>

<p>Since everything goat says is completely ridiculous so I don't even have to comment on that because just having his name next to it is enough for people to know it's stupid.</p>

<p>More cars on the road won't make people drive drunk (in other words, when you actually look at the anti-gun arguments critically, you find that they don't hold water). But lets not drag this thread into a gun control thread (there are a few of those already). It just happens to be something I feel strongly about and feel the democratic party has all wrong and which illustrates the idea that the democrats like pandering to people's emotions rather than fact. It most definitely is high on their agenda, but again, they know that it will get them nowhere fast, so they don't address it. Notice how it never came up in the debates.</p>

<p>Anyway, I do think that Obama is not fit for the presidency because of his inexperience as well as his fence-sitting</p>

<p>Are you serious? More cars on the road doesn't hold water. More guns in people's hands will surely cause deaths. Guns are made to shoot and kill things...cars are made for transportation. If something is made for the sole purpose of shooting, killing, and causing pain...let's guess what it will be used for!</p>

<p>And ur saying that restricting things that shoot, kill, and cause pain won't cause less shooting, killing, and pain? Interesting...</p>

<p>Oh man - like I said, I feel very stronly that gun control doesn't help anyone, so I can't resist this thread-jack.</p>

<p>Of course the car example is a valid counter-argument (I have a degree in philosophy - trust me on this one). You're putting forth a non sequitur as an argument. My counter is an example of another (more obvious) non sequitur. You say that more guns (inanimate tools with several uses) will cause people (rational beings with the power of decisionmaking) to do something with them. That is not true, as evidenced by the idea that more cars (also inanimate tools used for a variety of purposes) will make more people drive drunk (or drive their cars over a bridge on purpose, etc etc.). </p>

<p>I just picked up a new handgun yesterday - does the fact that I now have more guns than I did yesterday make me more likely to go out and shoot someone with said firearms? No, of course not. Guns don't fire bullets without someone pulling the trigger, much like cars don't move anywhere without somone pushing the gas pedal. </p>

<p>As for restrictions on guns... if the above argument isn't enough for you, consider this challenge and argument. I dare you to find me an example of restrictions on guns causing significantly less (or no) gun violence/crimes and keeping them down (i.e. not a normal fluctuation in crime trends). Again you can trust me on this - you won't find one. </p>

<p>Please, research this. Or better yet, call up the British government and ask them how their total ban on handguns is going. They still have a lot of crimes and shootings involving those "banned" guns. I wonder how that happened? People can't have things that are restricted/illegal. Oh thats right - criminals don't obey the law and will always have illegal things. Restricting guns (which are the best tool we as humans currently have for self-defense at the moment) only hurts law-abiding people who have no desire to hurt anyone if they don't have to. People have a right to self-defense (no one is going to argue that), but that also implies the right to the tools necessary to effect that self-defense.</p>

<p>Continuing with the restrictions theme... If you look at all the of the mass shootings in recent history, the vast majority of them took place in so-called "gun free zones", where people were forbidden from possessing loaded firearms. Hmmm... but they are "gun-free zones" - that means the guns just disappear when someone tries to bring them into these zones :rolleyes:. Lets list a few: Columbine, Amish school, Luby's (Texas massacre), VA Tech, etc etc etc. When is the last time you heard someone go shoot up a police station, or gun show, or shooting range? This is too much to be statistical coincidence, don't you think?</p>

<p>More gun control = more gun crime (precisely because criminals know they can't be opposed on any reasonable level)</p>

<p>Vermont - no license required to carry a concealed loaded handgun - want to guess what happened to their violent crime rate after that law was passed?</p>

<p>Florida - recently passed a concealed carry law - same thing - decrease in violent crime (and interesting side effect - an increase in crime on tourists, who could reasonably be presumed to be unarmed)</p>

<p>Switzerland - Required military service - after military service, required to keep your assault rifle and ammo in your home in a "ready" state. (= heavily armed populace) Ever know that Switzerland, despite its proximity to Germany and its very small size, was never invaded by the Nazis during WWII? Nazi war documents found after the war stated that they expected too much resistance because the entire population was armed to the teeth and deemed that it would take too many resources to conquer.</p>

<p>Next!!!</p>

<p>"I just don't see how people can even support the democrats"</p>

<p>Interesting, because I don't see how people can even support the republicancs!</p>

<p>Really though, I think goat is kidding...It seems like he's saying all this extremist stuff to get attention. You might enjoy this then:</p>

<p><a href="http://politicalhumor.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=politicalhumor&zu=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thefrown.com%2Ffrowners%2Fbecomerepublican.swf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://politicalhumor.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=politicalhumor&zu=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thefrown.com%2Ffrowners%2Fbecomerepublican.swf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>I guess you're also against gay marriage/rights? If so, I think that proves your ignorance right there...It's really common sense.</p>

<p>It's all common sense!</p>

<p>No if you check out goat's other threads he is serious. It's bad.</p>

<p>I am definitely for gay marriage. Almost every anti-gay marriage argument is completely ridiculous and merely bigoted by religion or homophobia.</p>

<p>Guns are made to shoot people. Look at South Korea's crime rates. I was watching the news and they said that many people looked at South Korea to blame after VTech, but the truth is that they Never have any shootings like that. School shootings are as American as Apple Pie. Watch Bowling for Columbine.</p>

<p>I'm not saying make guns outlawed. I'm saying restrict them. Make it more difficult to get one. People like the VTech shooter with a record of misbehavior and seeming-insanity should have never been sold a gun. Ever. Fortunately for you, guns are at the bottom of my list for things I am an activist for so it's not like ur fighting some big gun-restricting advocate.</p>

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School shootings are as American as Apple Pie. Watch Bowling for Columbine.

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<p>Like that isn't a completely biased and inaccuracy-riddled piece of crap film :rolleyes:
School shootings seem more common than shootings in other locations because of the "gun-free zone" BS (didn't you read my previous post? Do you have a response to this line of reasoning?)
And don't think that they are "as american as apple pie" - the event that sparked the draconian UK gun laws was also a school shooting - the Dunblane Massacre. </p>

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I'm saying restrict them. Make it more difficult to get one.

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<p>Why? What good will that do? California already makes it very difficult for average law-abiding people to get one, but last I checked, South Central LA didn't have the lowest violent/gun crime rate in the nation. Again, criminals will always be able to get guns, and they won't do it by legal means (less of a paper trail). Gun laws only hurt law-abiding people. Period.</p>

<p>Ugh I'm not gonna get into a gun control debate. I went to a highschool w/ an ag program w/ lots of hunters so I really don't give a crap. It's when I see things like school shootings that it matters. But I'm not too opinionated on the subject and u obviously are so I don't feel like getting into a debate about something I'm not passionate about.</p>

<p>Fair enough, but</p>

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It's when I see things like school shootings that it matters.

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<p>is not a good policy to take on anything. If it is important enough to care about, it is important enough to care about and debate all the time...</p>

<p>Why should you vote for Obama? He accurately predicted the consequences fo the Iraq war since 2002. He was on the record as saying that it would only result as the current situation is, chaos with nothing acheived. In his limited time in the Senate he has sponsored/co-sponsored just as many bills as Hillary has, often times crossing party lines. He's not a divider, he works with people to compromise. Many people who are Republicans are on the record saying they would vote for him. His universal health care plan will help those in financial straits, some of the 40 million Americans without health care. He will close down Guantanamo Bay and return to actually following the Constitution, something that I don't believe any of the main Republican candidates would do. Barack Obama doesn't play the political games that the rest of the people running are. People that want chang will vote for him. If you want the same old deal in Washington, you'll vote for someone else.</p>

<p>According to my trusty fellow SGACers (Student Global AIDS Campaign), Obama promises to increase funding for AIDS relief!!!</p>

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and return to actually following the Constitution, something that I don't believe any of the main Republican candidates would do.

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<p>:cough: Ron Paul :rolleyes:</p>

<p>that's why I said "main" Ron Paul is a very nice person to support, the only one f the Republican candidates I wouldn't be ****ed off about, but he has no appeal outside of a very small group</p>

<p>Do you seriously think Ron Paul has a chance at all? It's only on the internet you see im endorsed. I've never even met anyone in person who has mentioned his name. He comes in as 1% or less of the vote in EVERY poll I've seen...which is a lot.</p>

<p>You probably only see online polls as well if you say otherwise. But guess what...HIS SUPPORT IS ONLINE. Take it into the real world and he has nearly none.</p>

<p>He's a lost cause and if you actually think he can win ur a fool.</p>