Will High Financial Need Hurt My Chances at Carleton?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Carleton College
1

<p>I am a rising senior and for the past few months Carleton has been at the top of my college list. I've really liked everything that I've read about Carleton from their website and this CC forum, but I have one question that I havn't had answered yet. I understand that Carleton gives quite generous financial aid, but I just don't know how detrimental that financial need is to your application.</p>

<p>I am the youngest of five from a single mother household in sub-urban Oklahoma. My mother makes $38,000 a year and has recently put or is currently putting one son through a masters program, another son through med-school, and two sisters through undergrad degree programs. So as you can see, I would need close to a full ride if I were to go there. I didn't want that to sound like a sob story if it did, I just want you get an accurate view of my family's financial situation.</p>

<p>I guess my question is how much harder will it be for me to get into Carleton with financial need than without, and if I were to get in, how much financial aid to you think they would offer me? </p>

<p>Also, I'll post my stats below this so that, if you have an extra moment, you could let me know what part of my application I need to work on to maximize my chances at Carleton.</p>

<p>GENERAL INFO
-Sex: Male
-Race: White
-Location: Public highschool in Oklahoma (don't know if the state matters)</p>

<p>ACADEMICS
-Prospective Major: Physics
-GPA: 4.0 unweighted; about 4.5ish weighted
-Rank: top 5% of class; about 10 out of 550ish
-ACT: 33 sophomore year; 30E, 32M, 35R, 36S (I've always wondered if they care what grade you were in when you got your score)
-SAT: 780M, 710CR, 730W; 2220 or 1490 total
-SAT II: Math II - 760, Physics - 800
-AP: Took Lang, Calc AB, and Physics C Mech. and felt great about all of them. Unfortunaetly, I haven't gotten them back yet, but I'll post when I do in July.
-APs for next year: Calc BC, Euro, Lit, Physics C E&M, Chem
-I will also be attending a course on Cosmology at Colorado College this summer with a full tuition scholarship through the Southwest Highschool Scholars Program
-National Merit Finalist (going to be)
-Valedictorian (My schools has a strange system so I can be Valedictorian even though I'm tenth in my class)</p>

<p>EXTRACURRICULARS
-President and Founder of Philosophy Club
-Head Programmer and Captain of Award winning and World Championship Finalist FIRST Robotics Team
-President of Mu Alpha Theta
-Paid TA in robotics summer classes for middle schoolers
-Paid TA in vocal music, comedic acting, and commercial acting summer classes for elementary schoolers
-Homeland cashier (represent)
-Math tutor
-Acting outside of school for 7 years and leads in summers musicals for the past three years
-soccer for 12 years including highschool soccer freshman and sophomore years
-Cross Country Letterman freshman and sophomore years
-There's a little bit more but it's mostly lame stuff so I'll leave it out.</p>

<p>OTHER ADMISSIONS TOPICS
I feel like my essays will be strong but an interview will be the strongest non-academic portion of my application. I have shown interest in Carleton over the past few months by asking for tons of information and plan on visiting in Sept. or Oct. of my senior year.</p>

<p>If there's anything else just ask.</p>

<p>Thanks for all of your help!</p>

2

<p>It’s not a question of whether it will hurt you but by how much. Yes, Carleton gives generous financial aid and I don’t know if they say they are need aware or need blind but even if they are need aware it doesn’t mean that you won’t get in. They have a limited amount of financial aid but they do admit a certain number of students who have great financial need. Your stats look really good, you could very well be one of them. If you get in I think you’ll get a free ride. I can’t imagine in you circumstances there would be an expectation of any parental contribution.</p>

<p>You stats are really good, you should look at other schools that meet full demonstrated financial need. If you can get into them you’ll receive extensive financial aid.</p>

3

<p>Full pays definately had a big advantage in the admissions process this year, and would imagine it may stay the same for next year with the state of the economy. Broaden your horizons and apply to many schools that interest you that also offer good aid. In this manner you can compare the offers vs. the school and make a prudent decision.</p>

4

<p>Thanks for the quick responses, and yes, I have been looking at other schools with good financial aid. Grinnell, Reed, and Whitman just to name a few.</p>

5

<p>Carleton is need-aware when it comes to admission, so you should look at other places. You still have a shot to get in though. Your stats are good. It sounds like you will need a full ride, and unfortunately when need is taken into account, you never know what is going to happen. </p>

<p>With all of this being said, this is the one unfortunate thing I’d say that has changed with Carleton since I attended years ago. I think they just changed the policy to need aware for some small percentage of the class the year after I enrolled. Also, tuition was half(or less) what is is now. They also gave a lot less merit money. It actually may have been the written policy not to give merit money when I was accepted. All of this meant that a middle to upper middle class family with some savings or inhertance could pull off full tuition for one or two children at Carleton. I don’t think that could be done anymore. Your either rich or on a pseudo fellowship if your are attending Carleton these days.</p>

6

<p>I wasn’t sure if Carleton was need aware or not, it’s good to know. Need aware means different things at different schools. A school might have been need blind in the past and hopes to be need blind again someday but if they consider ability to pay in even one admissions decision then technically they are need aware.</p>

<p>It doesn’t mean that you won’t get in because they do admit some students with a great deal of need. My daughter applied to Carleton this year, was waitlisted, so I was following the stories on CC involving Carleton and the other schools she applied to. From what I could gather Carleton gave considerably more aid than another school she applied to who was need-blind. That says to me that Carleton takes to heart the idea of providing families with enough money so they can attend Carleton.</p>

7

<p>There’s some confusion here about Carleton’s need aware policy.</p>

<p>Carleton first assembles a ranking of students for acceptance in a need blind fashion. In “good” financial years the entire class may be brought in without regard to need. In years like this, the school will accept the top “x” percentage of students (virtually always at least 90-95%) without regard to need but then consider need for those considered more “marginal” candidates. </p>

<p>Part of the school’s problem is that even need aware, the proportion of students on financial aid here has been historically greater than other top LACs out east. While this may have been great for diversity, it’s also a stress on the endowment (a big issue everywhere these days). Why kids with need are more likely to apply/be accepted here I can only guess - likely a combination of Carleton’s location and personality. Understand that these days even so-called need blind schools “fudge” that status, e.g. students taken off the waitlist, for example, can be considered on a need aware basis. Understand also that Carleton is one of a small group of schools that promises, once you’re accepted, to meet 100% of financial need. You can imagine this another major issue for colleges in these hard times.</p>

<p>I’d argue you have very solid stats all around. If you can “show the love” and convince Carleton you’re a natural born Carl, you should rise high up enough in the the adcom’s rankings to not run afoul of the “marginals” (forgive that awful term) need-aware issues. Agree with other advice to apply broadly.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

8

<p>Pea, I didn’t mean they didn’t provide a reasonable amount of money to those who were accepted and needed the money. I’m sure they do this. They’ve been good about this for a while.</p>

<p>I meant something different. Let me try to explain. This is what I think I understand. Somebody out there can correct me if I’m wrong. Carleton didn’t use to give much merit money and it used to be need blind. Now lets say you have two families each white so there won’t be any incentitive to admit because of diverisity.</p>

<p>Family 1: Combined parents income is $100,000. Maybe they have $60,000 in savings.</p>

<p>Family 2: Combined parents income is $250,000. Maybe they have $300,000 in savings.</p>

<p>If the family really wants to send thier child to Carleton, both families can afford full tuition when the tuition was $19,000. Only family 2 can afford full tuition at $38,000. Family 1 needs aid. If Family 2 puts down they can pay full tuition, there child gets an competitive advantage in the admissions process. The thing that gets me is that if Carleton really decides it wants a student, it can provide merit aid on top of or combined with the need aid. They can effectively reduce tuition for students they really want. Carleton never used to do this at the level it does now, and they used to not give advantage to those who applied for admission without applying for need based financial aid. When the tuition is so high, many middle class families may not have the same opportunity to send there child to Carleton without merit or need based aide as they used to.</p>

9

<p>Totally agree with what everyone has posted here and I’m glad to have the more detailed explanations. Jack63 – I personally agree with you, the middle class is not able to afford the sticker price at a private school but also doesn’t qualify for need-based assistance. When I have tried to present this idea on other threads I have been ripped to shreads. :slight_smile: Apparently it is a touchy subject.</p>

10

<p>with your financials and excellent stats you might consider applying to
a couple of need blind, 100% need met,no loans for low incomes colleges.
LAC’s like Haverford, Wesleyan, Vassar etc or even to a couple of larger
schools, Penn, Rice, Vanderbilt come to mind. The no loans list is onhttp://projectonstudentdebt.org/pc_institution.php
The 100% need met/
need blind list is harder to find and shrinking. I doubt Carleton is your best
financial bet.</p>

11

<p>Jack63</p>

<p>A correction about financial/“merit” aid policies.</p>

<p>“if Carleton really decides it wants a student, it can provide merit aid on top of or combined with the need aid”</p>

<p>Carleton does NOT offer independent merit aid to SELECTED students. The closest thing it offers in the way of merit money is by participating the programs like National Merit.</p>

<p>From the Carleton website:</p>

<p>“Most Carleton financial aid is in the form of need-based aid. However, Carleton participates in three merit scholarship programs: the National Merit Scholarship Program, the National Achievement Scholarship Program, and the National Hispanic Recognition Program. Students who are finalists in these programs are eligible for Carleton scholarships of $2,000 per year.”</p>

12

<p>Speedo</p>

<p>Looking for no-loan programs is well advised. But as you point out, only a small number of schools offer this and often only selectively to students whose family meets stringent income levels. Many colleges do offer some variation on this theme allowing many to graduate if not completely, near debt-free.</p>

<p>Last year Carleton announced their Access Scholarship Program that significantly reduced or eliminated loans for those with family incomes below $75,000. The link is below. Just below that link, a more detailed text description (sorry if it doesn’t display well) includes the example of a student with a family income of $45,000. That student would graduate after 4 years with only $6,000 in loans, otherwise debt-free. protestthehero91 should qualify for AT LEAST as generous a package. </p>

<p>Carleton means what it says in promising to meet 100% of financial need. Aid packages tend to be very generous.</p>

<p>[Carleton</a> College: Carleton News: News: Carleton Announces New Access Scholarship Program](<a href=“http://apps.carleton.edu/news/news/?story_id=391275]Carleton”>http://apps.carleton.edu/news/news/?story_id=391275)</p>

<p>"Carleton Access Scholarship Carleton College is pleased to announce the establishment of the Carleton Access Scholarship program to begin with students enrolling for the fall of 2008. Carleton’s historical commitment to a diverse enrollment has never been stronger in these times of growing tuition costs. Believing that access to a Carleton education is not just an offer of admission, but also the financial means to make it happen, the College is instituting a new program of assistance targeted to needy students throughout the nation. The Access Scholarship will be awarded to reduce the loan debt that often becomes a financial obstacle in a student’s pursuit of learning or career path. Although loan debt for a college degree may be inevitable, our goal will be to keep the student’s investment in Carleton reasonable and not at an overwhelming level. To be eligible for a Carleton Access Scholarship, you must:
�� Be an admitted student,
�� Apply and qualify for need-based financial aid,
�� Have a total family income of less than $75,000. </p>

<p>The value of each Access Scholarship will be between $2,000 and $4,000 each year, depending on the student’s family income. The following represents the scholarship distribution for 2008: Income Level Access Scholarship Less than $40,000 $4,000 $40,001-$60,000 $3,000 $60,001-$75,000 $2,000 The Carleton Access Scholarship is used to reduce the loan component in each eligible recipient’s respective aid award. The student’s need, as calculated by the Student Financial Services Office, will continue to be fully met. Recipients will qualify for this scholarship in future years as long as they meet the qualifications listed above in each subsequent award year. Income level includes both taxable and untaxed income. Impact of an Access Scholarship Students receiving a Carleton Access Scholarship can expect their total loan debt upon graduation to be significantly lower than those of recent classes where the average has exceeded $19,000. Students receiving a $4,000 Access Scholarship (each year) will likely have their total indebtedness reduced by about 70% when they graduate. Recipients of $3,000 Access Scholarships can expect about a 50% reduction in loan debt and those with $2,000 Access Scholarships will experience about a 33% reduction in cumulative loan. </p>

<p>Example: John is from Portland, Oregon. His family’s income is $45,000 and has a need of $37,500. His original and revised aid awards look like this: </p>

<p>-------------Original Award–Revised with Access Scholarship
Carleton Grant $28,775 ------------$28,775
Federal Pell Grant 2,000 -------------2,000
Loan…4,500 -------------1,500
Work…2,225 -------------2,225
Access Scholarship ---- -------------3,000
…====== …======<br>
Total… $37,500 …$37,500</p>

13

<p>Thanks for all of the responses. I really wasn’t expecting so many when I made this thread.</p>

<p>“I’d argue you have very solid stats all around. If you can “show the love” and convince Carleton you’re a natural born Carl, you should rise high up enough in the the adcom’s rankings to not run afoul of the “marginals” (forgive that awful term) need-aware issues.” Could you give an example of how I could go about doing this, 1190?</p>

14

<p>I think they will like that you are an intended physics major who has performed in many plays and musicals. Carleton appreciates students who do the unexpected and who show a passion to learn and explore.</p>

15

<p>What year were you on a World Championship Finalist FIRST Robotics Team? That’s a great accomplishment, congrats. Be sure you include the year in your application.</p>

16

<p>It was the 2009 competition year, and thanks!</p>

17

<p>1190 has covered most of what I would add to this conversation, but I will just back up that information by saying it is correct that Carleton does not offer merit aid, and it is also correct that they initially select a class in a need-blind fashion before seeing if they have to consider need in any cases due to budget. The last statistics that I heard, financial circumstances only affects something like 1 in 15 admissions decisions (for better or worse). So could your need hurt your chances? Sure. But it most likely won’t, so I would not worry too much about something you won’t be able to change anyway.</p>

18

<p>LACalum, 1190, thanks for clearing up Carleton’s stance on Merit Aid. Having need effect 1 in 15 admissions decisions is not bad, but it no doubt means that some of the poorest students will need to have a lot to offer Carleton in terms of who they are to be accepted.
There isn’t necessarily anything wrong with this in my opinion though.</p>

<p>Here is what I don’t know though. This is what I was trying to get at in my earlier posts.
If you have two families each making about $100,000 a year with similar assets and the same number of kids in college, do they get the same or a similar amount of aid. If Carleton thinks that it likes a student from the first family more than the second, and then it gives the student from the first family more need based aid, then its not really need based aid(at least not in my book) even though Carleton may be calling it need based aid.</p>

<p>I don’t know what Carleton does here. I know some universities would give the student they liked better more “need based aid” or whatever they want to call it. I would certainly feel better if Carleton didn’t operate that way.</p>

19

<p>Our experience has been that Carleton sticks to the FAFSA/CSS profile numbers.</p>

20

<p>Jack63, I see what you are asking now, and you can rest easy. Carleton’s financial aid is definitely based ENTIRELY on need/FAFSA/Profile information and not on how much they want a particular student. A good example of this is that a student who applies early decision to Carleton will get the same financial aid package they would get in regular decision, even though Carleton doesn’t need to convince the early decision student to attend.</p>