<p>I am an international student, and I reaaaaly wanna enter Penn
And I wonder if summer programs in USA will help my admissions to Penn?~</p>
<p>No, most summer programs in the US will not help you, unless it is TASP/MITES/something very hard to gain admission into. i.e. not one of those “pay $5000 to spend a month on our beautiful college campus!!” programs. </p>
<p>But you should know that if you can get into those selective programs(there’s a list somewhere in the forum), you would probably be able to get into most colleges regardless of whether or not you attended that program at all.</p>
<p>Sorry - just saw that you were international. Keep in mind that most summer programs also tend not to have any financial aid for internationals. </p>
<p>Good luck applying!</p>
<p>I have to disagree with the first comment. Schools like penn want kids who have a deep passion for learning. If they saw a kid who spent 5000 on a summer program to learn instead of going on vacation then that says a lot. Some programs like the one at Cornell offer courses were you can actually get college credit. Others like the one at Columbia offer evaluations on your stay there and a good letter from there could mean a better chance of getting into a good school like Cornell. If you have the money then by all means do it. I got this from my college advisor and a representative from Columbia.</p>
<p>Sorry, I don’t think my stance was clear.</p>
<p>Colleges look to see if you did anything productive over the summer. You don’t necessarily have had to attend an (often expensive) summer program. I do agree that colleges want to see you have a passion for learning, but my opinion differs from yours because to me, focusing on your ECs, maybe getting a research position, and taking a couple of credit courses show more “passion for learning” than using your money for a typical “get acquainted with our university program.” (A Penn admin officer told me this when I asked last year. I wish I had known earlier.)</p>
<p>Like I’ve stated before, an exception would be if your program includes things in the curriculum that you would have never been able to learn during high school, like RSI. The rest of the summer programs are pretty much money-generators. For example, HSP is fun, interesting, and you get to meet amazing people, but it does not necessarily give you an advantage in the Harvard admissions process just because you’ve attended their program. </p>
<p>Everything I’ve said is based on my personal experience and my guidance counselors’ advice. But if you want to give it a try, go ahead.</p>
<p>It helps as much as any other Extra Curricular or self-motivated work. Maybe a little less.</p>
<p>Columbia09: you’re mistaken – you’ve bought into the marketing that these programs proffer. </p>
<p>The fact is that the huge percentage of the world’s population can not afford to spend US$5000 to send junior to a college summer program. The fact is that many kids in the USA have to do things during their summer called “work at a job” to earn money.</p>
<p>Colleges want kids who are true scholars – these can be participants in expensive college programs – or these can be kids who serve sundaes at the Dairy Queen all summer. Does attendance at one of these program show something? Sure. But that’s not the only way. What it does show is that mom/dad are rich, first and foremost.</p>
<p>OP: Penn wants to see you use your time efficiently. If $5000 is no burden to your family, by all means. But don’t feel any compulsion to do so. Just don’t lay around all summer. Volunteer. Get a job. Have fun and help your family.</p>
<p>“What it does show is that mom/dad are rich, first and foremost.” T26E4 this is a false accusation it shows that mom and dad would rather send their money on education rather then going on vacation. I attended 3 programs ranging from 4,000 - 8,000 and in no way are my parents rich. When my teacher nominated me for the programs they said that they rather me go to the programs then on a vacation.</p>
<p>Right, when I went to the one at Columbia I did a bunch of experiments in their labs that I couldn’t do in my school. We extracted DNA from a strawberry, we made our own PCRs (is that the correct name) , and we experimented with fruit flies. My college councilor was impressed by all this and by the letters i revived. The Columbia summer program is competitive only half the students who apply are admitted. It’s also expensive 8,000 if you stay on campus. I only suggest people who have the money (or want to sacrifice something else so they could go there) attend. I had a blast over there and i know it will pay off in the future. I also volunteered last summer at a local oncology lab so all of this is one big connection that the colleges will love.</p>
<p>I’ll also add that I had no idea that there were these sorts of summer programs in HS. I didn’t even know people thought it was important to do a ton of stuff during the summers to get admission. So, I spent my summers lazying around lol… and then got admitted to Penn (+ some others)…</p>
<p>Columbia: I’m in no way denegrating your experience or even your family’s decision to send you to the Columbia summer session. What I’m saying is that there are tons of kids who will be admitted to top schools who have never taken part in what you did – for a variety of reasons. </p>
<p>I did say that most of the programs are vaulable. But not essential by any means. You know what I did for my summers? Played softball in my neighborhood and wash dishes at a restaurant. None of the Ivies I applied viewed this as somehow my not being dedicated to academics as they all accepted me.</p>
<p>THIS IS MY POINT: the summer sessions are, for the most part, fine. But only if your family really has the expendable money. Do anything worthwhile and you’re fine.</p>
<p>I completely agree with honeynutcheerios - you do NOT have to attend a uber-expensive (vocabulary fail) summer program to demonstrate to colleges that you have a passion for learning. If anything, it just shows that you are uber-rich (vocabulary fail x 2). There are plenty of other things you can do over the summer that are just as demonstrative of your talents (research at lab, youth leader group, volunteering every summer at XXX, or even heavy reading at home). But I’m not saying that you shouldn’t go to these programs. They can more than likely change the way YOU approach academics and help shape your future career interest.</p>
<p>So don’t go to a summer program just because it’ll “help you get into college”. Go because you want to explore something new, which can possibly steer your interest for a particular field. So in that sense, it can indirectly help you get into college (e.g. I am really interested in business: I’m president of DECA, I have my own business, I attended a summer program on entrepreneurship). In the above example, if you instead attended a summer program on biomedical sciences, even if it’s a very competitive program, it wouldn’t necessarily help your admission chances.</p>
<p>And my last point is: the evaluations you get at the end of the Columbia program is USELESS. They are the same for every student and does nothing to help your case for college admissions.</p>
<p>yup, i never did anything over the summer besides working out, studying, and hanging out with my friends. wasn’t really in to structuring my time. only colleges applied to were Chicago and MIT unrestricted early action, Wharton early decision. got in to all of them.</p>
<p>i don’t think anyone cared what I did over the summer. if one of the admissions people said, “But what did he do during his summers?” then the director probably said “Who cares? This is a great application” </p>
<p>Don’t take this the wrong way. Kids do cool stuff over the summer. Award winning science research, taking more classes(if you’re interested), prestigious camps like TASP for intellectual kids who are qualified and inclined, summer jobs, sports teams. </p>
<p>I just don’t think most summer programs and community service trips qualify as cool. If I saw that you went to $5000 summer programs at Penn, Harvard, and Brown, as well as a community service trip to Thailand, I would think that you are really, really uncool.</p>
<p>“the evaluations you get at the end of the Columbia program is USELESS.” This statement is wrong especially since you said they are the same for everyone. They are not, we had examinations at the end of every week and a lab report we had to do. Those who did excellent received a better evaluation then those who did poorly. The ones who did poorly said very little only that they attended and participated. The letters of the stars said they did very well in a college level class in genetics and molecular biology.</p>
<p>@Columbia09
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<p>Not to be overly sassy, but you can extract DNA from a strawberry at home, much less in school…It’s mostly household products that you can get from the store. Just saying…</p>
<p>@jadedwhartonguy
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<p>I don’t think that’s necessarily true. You’re one of those students who are lucky enough to have such a strong resume/test scores/grades for it to not really matter. But I definitely feel like it won’t hurt you to get your butt up and do something over the summer, particularly for students who are not as strong as yourself. If its between a kid who did something with his life over the summer and one who didn’t and they’re both borderline, we can safely assume they’d rather take the kid who has shown some initiative in his studies. That definitely does not necessarily include a 5000 dollar course (I never spent money on those, particularly when a community college course is dirt-cheap and closer), but I do think colleges would prefer you to show some kind of intellectual interest.</p>
<p>Yeah I’ve extracted strawberry DNA in high school, it looks like clear snot. Well on the topic anyways, I think the general consensus is do the summer program if you are interested but know that it is no different than interning somewhere or doing community service over the summer, its all about what you make of it.</p>
<p>Very true.</p>
<p>Besides the argument on the summer programs significance, which program is harder to get accepted to: LBW or LEAD?</p>
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</p>
<p>Well… shouldn’t a simple letter grade indicate that you can do very well in a college-level class?</p>
<p>A “good” recommendation goes way beyond just saying “this student is spectacular in my classes and can do very well in college”. He or she must provide specific examples regarding your presence inside and outside of the classroom. I am sure the admission officers at every college know the quality of the Columbia Summer Program recommendations, and most likely will not bother reading them since 3/4 is the same for every applicant. Of course, if you are able to do something SPECTACULAR during your time there, and it caught a professor’s attention, I’m sure he/she will be able to provide you a SEPARATE LOR. But unfortunately Columbia09, the letters you receive from the program are probably subpar compared to the supplemental recs submitted by many other students.</p>
<p>Nevertheless, it shouldn’t discourage anyone from going, because I hate it when people go to a summer program just because “it looks better on college apps”. Good or bad, it’s for the experience!</p>