<p>
A W&M alum is Chancellor of UW.</p>
<p>I’ll never understand these irritating threads about which school is better as between two outstanding schools. The only honest thing any poster in this thread could say is that the OP would have every opportunity for a great educational experience at either Wisconsin or W&M. There are “environmental” differences between the two, such as size, climate and the nature of the college experience. The OP may wish to focus on that. Academically, the OP has two great choices and really can’t go wrong with either.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl + 12-pack of Old Style = William & Mary’s reputation is at a whole different caliber.</p>
<p>
I guess the definition of “many” in this case is whatever number we can put together plus one? ;)</p>
<p>Just for fun, here are a few of the notable UVa alumni in the business world:</p>
<p>Samuel Goldwyn, Jr. (Barrons seems to like people in show biz, so I figured I’d but him first)
Shelby Bonnie (co-founder of CNET)
Daryl Brewster (President & CEO of Krispy Kreme)
Charles L. Brown (Former Preisdnet & CEO of AT&T)
George David (Chairman & CEO of United Technologies)
Lisa Hamilton (President of UPS)
Timothy Koogle (Former President & CEO of Yahoo)
H. Eugene Lockhart Jr (Former CEO of Mastercard)
Jonathan Mariner (EVP & CFO of Major League Baseball)
Christopher Nassetta (President & CEO of Hilton Hotels)
A. Thomas Young (EVP of Lockheed Martin)</p>
<p>I haven’t even gone back in history or into medicine, law, education, literature, athletics, the arts or politics in that little list. I know this probably isn’t “many”, but I got tired of typing. Suffice it to say that UVa has notable alumni in many different fields. I’m sure W&M’s notable alumni list is just as long an impressive…possibly longer in light of their age!</p>
<p>Barrons has made reference to some sort of negative experience related to UVa or perhaps someone who went to UVa. It’s a shame he chooses to spend so much time posting negative comments about a wonderful school with a rich heritage as a result of this experience.</p>
<p>I’ll return to the UVa forum and leave the discussion of W&M vs. Wisconsin to the rest of you. I agree that this is one of the more unusual pairings I’ve seen here. Good luck to the OP with the big decision!</p>
<p>Thank you, MilwDad, for your words of sanity! Just because I happen to love W & M, I’ll add that some of its alumni have indeed shown some major accomplishments. (And I won’t even list the presidents who are alums, since that was admittedly long ago). Surely barrons has heard of Robert Gates, Christina Romer, Mike Tomlin, Glenn Close, Perry Ellis, William Ivey Long, Joseph Ellis, and Carolyn Martin (the aforementioned UW Chancellor). Looking at the alums listed on wikipedia, I notice current ambassadors, legislators, judges, professors at excellent colleges, several Pulitzer Prize winners, a MacArthur Award winner, a number of professional athletes and business leaders, etc. Oh, and Jon Stewart, whom I suspect was funny even before coming under the influence of Ben Karlin. :rolleyes:</p>
<p>Admittedly no Nobel Prize winners yet. Maybe the OP will be the first! duskmantle, if it’s possible to ignore all this parental squabbling, please do. If you can afford either school, choose the one you’d be most excited to attend. Work hard there, make the most of the opportunities you find, and you will find a good job after graduating. Going to either of these fine schools won’t hold you back in any way.</p>
<p>Actually my point is that UW puts out as many people who “earn” Prestige as just about any so-called more prestigious college. Simple as that. And I don’t think many who like to call it another state school are aware of its long and unique list of famous and accomplished faculty and alumni. Most let some second-rate magazine decide this for them as several responses here indicate.
And I have no idea what Nova’s deal is.</p>
<p>Dean J–kudos on all your good press. But I have no basic ill will or animosity toward UVa. Just like the Philosophical Gourmet, I think it’s a bit of an overrated school in academia and it is well aware of this. It was even willing to spend well over $100 Million to help fix that but found you just don’t go out and hire a top science reputation. BTW that’s all in the BOV minutes and reports by President Casteen to same.</p>
<p>For IR, the academic answer is definitely W&M. It has great placement of graduates into graduate and law schools, especially on the east coast - including DC where so many of the IR themed jobs and graduate schools are.</p>
<p>It depends what else you value in a college. UW is much larger, as has been said. W&M is known more for academics and undergraduate research rather than for sports programs, academics, and big parties. You can walk around the main part of W&M campus in less than an hour - I’m sure that’s not possible at UW. UW will also have longer and snowier winters, where at W&M snowing once in winter is considered lucky. On the reverse, in summer W&M will be quite warm and humid whereas UW will have a more pleasant temperature (for if you were planning on staying on campus in the summer).</p>
<p>Well, at UW you get to take international relations with the guy who wrote the book.</p>
<p>"Pevehouse’s previous work has examined reciprocity within regional political conflicts, democratization and regional organizations, the political-military implications of international organizations, and economic interdependence. He is the author of Democracy from Above? Regional Organizations and Democratization (Cambridge University Press, 2005) and (with William Howell) While Dangers Gather: Congressional Checks on Presidential War Powers (Princeton University Press, 2007). He is also the author (with Joshua Goldstein) of International Relations (Longman Press), the leading undergraduate text on international relations.</p>
<p>It is a “close” call despite some posters suggestions. This is more about where you want to be and what type of institution you want to be at for four years. It sounds like you prefer W&M but worry about its prestige. Do not worry W&M is a great place. Personally, I would opt for Wisconsin because of the “big U” atmosphere and Madison is a great college town, but it sounds like your personal fit is W&M. You can’t go wrong either way.</p>
<p>Dean J forgot to mention that both U-Va and William and Mary wipe UW off the map when it comes to producing Rhodes Scholars. If that’s not a marker for undergraduate esteem and accomplishment than I don’t know what is.</p>
<p>And Dean J is also spot on that barrons has an axe to grind against U-Va that goes well beyond his views on its science program. Here’s a typical quote from him from the UW board:</p>
<p>“Many UW kid’s come from middle and working class backgrounds unlike the privileged class typical at UVa. Some see it as a badge of honor to pay their own way without mom and dad. It gives you the freedom to take as long as you like and major in anything you want without getting the approval of mom and dad. People take off a semester to just travel or do something interesting. They are not trapped in " a you must graduate in 4 years” state of mind. UW is much more free-spirited than the uptight pre-professional prepsters common at UVa and the like."</p>
<p>In short, you’d best take his views with a grain of salt.</p>
<p>Sorry Nova–even UVa admits it’s a rich kids school. Average income is about double UW families.</p>
<p>"Consistently through the four decades, most first-year students
came from families who were financially well-off as
compared to families nationally. In 1966, while the national
median family income was $38,000, the median UVa student
reported a family income between $60,000 and $90,000.8 Similarly,
in 2005 the national median family income was $56,000,
while the median UVa student reported a family income between
$100,000 and $150,000.
Probably because they came from higher income families, few
UVa first-year students (less than 10 percent across all years)
expressed major concern about their ability to finance college.
The percent of students indicating that they had no concern
regarding their ability to finance college rose from 46
percent in 1966 to 54 percent in 2005.
A further comparison of UVa first-year student family income
to national income distributions reinforces the finding that
UVa students tend to come from families who are well-off. A
majority of students in 1966 and 2005 are represented in the
highest quintile of national family income (Table 1). That is,
for example, whereas one fifth of families nationally reported
an income of $59,000 or more in 1966, nearly three-quarters
of UVa first-year students reported an income of $60,000 or
more that year. Likewise, nearly half of first-year students’
families were represented in the top five percent of national
family income (Table 1)…
In 1966, the typical first-year
student was a young white man from an upper middle-class
family who considered it important to keep up-to-date with
political affairs and to help others in difficulty. By 2005, it was
more difficult to describe the “typical student”: she or he was
probably white, probably from an upper middle class family
with well-educated parents, and probably set family and financial
success as his or her life goals.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.web.virginia.edu/iaas/news/cirpnewsletter.pdf[/url]”>http://www.web.virginia.edu/iaas/news/cirpnewsletter.pdf</a></p>
<p>Right. This from the same poster who boasts on the UW board that “Wisconsin is blessedly low on the very poor.”</p>
<p>I never suggested that U-Va didn’t have lots of well-to-do students. It’s your description of the student body as “uptight prepsters” who need the approval of “mom and dad” that shows your bias – not to mention your post after post after post taking shots at the university. It’s a bizarre obsession, to be sure.</p>
<p>Anyway, I’m not going to hijack this thread into a discussion of U-Va versus UW or your fixations. OP, go to William and Mary and have a blast!</p>
<p>I should think any state would be happy to have fewer very poor people. It’s hardly a badge of honor. Obviously I know the reasons for demographics are complex however the only reason that was posted was because you said UW had relatively few Pell grant students–which generally go to the poor. DUH.</p>
<p>Wisconsin’s poverty rate is HIGHER than New Jersey’s, barrons. New Jersey has one of THE lowest poverty rates in the country. DUH.</p>
<p>Wisconsin is around 30th in poverty rate thus making it relatively low. NJ has a rate of 9.2% with Wisconsin at 9.8%. But NJ has far more people so NJ has far more poor people. Have to watch those percents when talking absolute numbers.</p>
<p>[Poverty</a> 46–Part 100125_01](<a href=“http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/cpstables/032009/pov/new46_100125_01.htm]Poverty”>http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/cpstables/032009/pov/new46_100125_01.htm)</p>
<p>[Poverty</a> rate by state](<a href=“http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=phNtm3LmDZEN4obqrPBgrGQ]Poverty”>http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=phNtm3LmDZEN4obqrPBgrGQ)</p>
<p>barrons, why can’t you show some class and just say that W&M (and UVA) are also fine schools, that a fine education can be had at any of them, and that for the poster choosing between W&M and Wisconsin, it gets down to personal preference for large school vs small, Madison vs Williamsburg, and midwest vs south? It’s ridiculous to try to “prove” UW’s superiority. It just makes you look needy.</p>
<p>William and Mary is a great school and well known because of their history. that is what i would choose.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Wow. What sour grapes! Jealous of the rich kids, much? Normal people are glad for other people’s successes, not resentful of them.</p>
<p>“Oh my goodness. There is no comparison. William & Mary all the way.” Based on what, exactly?? Better faculty?? Better resources for students? You are so knee-jerk it’s pathetic. Maybe you need to get out of the Northeast a bit and learn something. That’s why I did not even bother with this thread until P3. So I’m happy to show all the class you did–"Oh my goodness. There is no comparison. Wisconsin all the way. How’s that? Actually I’m happy to say both Virginia schools are fine schools in their more limited ways.</p>
<p>If you actually followed things it has little to do with rich kids and more with basic economics. Kids with less money might have to work their way through college. This might explain the slower grad rates at UW which were being made a big issue–mostly in a separate related thread with Nova. Also I never said UVa or W&M were not good. Just it’s no automatic call that they are clearly better than UW as some seem to assume as they are not really familiar with UW and just look at US News or SAT scores. There might just be other things to look at that take a bit more effort.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>ROFL - get out of the Northeast? I haven’t lived in the Northeast for 25+ years. I’m about 100 miles south of Madison as I type. I’m the one on most threads reminding the Northeast people that the world doesn’t stop at the Hudson River and that there are fabulous colleges out here and not to be so provincial. I’ve employed Wisconsin graduates and think highly of the school.</p>