Williams apps fall 20%; Amherst apps down 1%

Colleges and Universities A-Z Amherst College
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<p>From an article today on Bloomberg.com news:</p>

<p>“Applications for admission plunged 20 percent at Williams College as fewer students sought entry at seven of the eight top-rated liberal-arts colleges in the U.S.”<br>
…
“Amherst College, in Amherst, Massachusetts, saw applications fall 1 percent, said Tom Parker, dean of admissions. The school received 7,664 applications, Parker said, and has 1,683 students.”</p>

<p>[Williams</a> College?s Applications Drop 20% as Economy Takes Toll - Bloomberg.com](<a href=“http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=a.vca3DMhCHc&refer=us]Williams”>http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=a.vca3DMhCHc&refer=us)</p>

<p>Williams’s numbers fell from 7,552 to 6,024 (for an entering class of roughly 500).</p>

<p>Frankly, I’m astonished. From the perspective of our rivalry, I guess it’s good news for Amherst–means more applicants than Williams has to choose from. From the perspective of a liberal arts student in general, it’s kind of frightening. Midd dropped 12%, Swat down 10%. Congrats to Wellesley as the only one to rise (by 2%). Hopefully this doesn’t mean LACs in general are losing drawing power relative to the Ivies.</p>

<p>Any guesses why Amherst dropped the least of the top co-ed LACs? I’m pretty mystified, but here are my unasked-for speculations, in no particular order:</p>

<li><p>Amherst has simply finally reached a tipping point where it’s thought of as the best LAC, so it gets treated that way, and it becomes that way. Not sure if it is the best, but it’s a perception game. As people scale back their number of apps, or apply to fewer private schools, they keep Amherst as that one, really special LAC they think it might be worth it to shoot for.</p></li>
<li><p>(related to 1) Amherst finally clawed back to a tie with Williams at number 1 on the US News rankings. I think this could partly explain Amherst NOT UNDERperforming Williams, but not really how we outperformed them in applicant draw. The difference in applicant numbers this year might break the tie for next year, though, really triggering the feedback loop hypothesized in 1.</p></li>
<li><p>Amherst somehow better markets its need-blind, full-demonstrated-need financial aid policies than similar schools. If so… w00t for Public Affairs?</p></li>
<li><p>Amherst has more systematic, personalized outreach methods to identify, get to know, and get commitments from students with less privileged upbringings, the group I expect is the most likely to scale back their apps now due to financial stresses.</p></li>
<li><p>Maybe Williams picked a bunch of jerks for their tour guides this year, and Amherst picked some really good ones?</p></li>
<li><p>Amherst is at the beginning of the alphabet, Williams is at the end? This means in the US News rankings, Amherst is listed first, and someone might overlook that bit about the tie when they casually check to see who is ranked first.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>My other reaction, honestly, was to think this might increase the prestige of an Amherst diploma a tiny bit. I know it sounds stupid, but I don’t need any more information on what Amherst is like–I’ll be graduating soon, and ridiculous as it sounds, I think Amherst’s long-run standing has an impact on my strength as an applicant for jobs, grad school, etc.</p>

<p>Do you think it’s a fluke or reflects something real?</p>

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<p>Haha, definitely 6. It's all 6.</p>

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<p>That's interesting. I applied to Amherst but didn't apply to Williams, not because their facilities weren't as good or the people at Amherst were better. I just didn't have this overwhelming penchant towards Williams the way I had for Amherst, so I figured, why bother applying. I can't really explain it but that sort of x factor played in. Also, I liked the campus at Amherst more than I did at Williams and even though that's pretty superficial, I figured I'm going to get a great education at either one so why not go to the better looking campus? I do also remember having a great tour guide for Amherst but I didn't have time for one at Williams. Good thing Amherst accepted me or I would be kicking myself for not applying to Williams.</p>

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<p>My son described his reaction to the two school in almost the same terms. The only difference was that he preferred and applied to Williams.</p>

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<p>Probably the most important factor in the application drop - Williams added a supplemental essay this year. Maybe that accounts for half the drop? 20% is a big drop though so there's something else going on that I'm sure Williams will figure out. Could be factor 6 listed above :)</p>

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<p>I think I actually wrote it on a Williams thread perhaps. But my son preferred Amherst on a couple of levels and one was, although he is an Athlete, every athlete that he knows who goes to Williams thinks they are pretty awesome. He would suggest that being humble is not in their skill set. Now, this does not apply to all, but only to those he knows from a couple places around the country that attend there. I just don't want Williams' folk to start jumping down my throat. After all, all schools have personalities and he just preferred Amherst.</p>

<p>In regards to the additional essay, it was something about looking out a window at your favorite scene and what would you looking at (or something like that). He felt that was more about external motivators vs who you were as a person.</p>

<p>Let's not forget that Amherst had an additional essay as well, but from my son's point of view, it was more of a "what makes you tick" kind of thing.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
something else going on

[/quote]
</p>

<p>a) Simple year to year variation. These schools have all seen 50% to 70% increases in application numbers over the last five years. An absurd and unstainable number. For example, Swarthmore's increase since 2000 as 66%. Now, it's "fallen" back to "only" a 58% increase and the second largest number of apps in the schools' history -- by a mile. All of these schools will see the apps fall back as the number of high school graduates has now peaked and is receeding.</p>

<p>b) Dumb factors. The delta in application numbers is not from the baseline customer pool for each college, but in the extra apps from people clicking the submit button. A student who saw Swarthmore listed as "the most intellectual college" in some magazine's stupid article last year. Or who sees that Amherst is now "just as good as Williams" where it wasn't last year. Or 500 more internationals who think that Amherst going "need blind" means that they will now be admitted and given a full ride deal. That number will decline in future years as the figure out that it doesn't mean that at all.</p>

<p>c) Small sample variation. You never ever want to rely on a one-year snapshot with LAC statistical data. There is too much year to year variation and noise. If you watch this stuff, you'll see years where the data fluctuates with no apparent reason.</p>

<p>Are all of these schools going to see declines in apps and yield over the next three years? Yes. Probably signficant declines. The combination of shrinking demographics and a major recession will make a very rough admissions climate, just as we have seen at other points in the histories of these schools (they went coed in the 70s to offset a serious decline in apps after the baby boom). Wouldn't surprise me to see apps decline back to the 2000 levels and acceptance rates go back up into the 20% to 30% range.</p>

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<p>Modadunn, yes, Amherst has had a supplemental essay for some time. This is the first year (going back many years) that Williams has added one. I think part of the Williams decrease are the students that last year would have just checked the Williams box on the common app and thrown in an application, since there was no additional essay to write. I agree with interesteddad that the rest of the decrease could be just random variation; what happens next year will be interesting.</p>

<p>As far as your son's reaction to Williams athletes, that makes me laugh a little because I have heard Williams athletes say the same thing about Amherst athletes. A number of my kids' friends play sports at both schools, and really, the kids are all pretty darn similar!</p>

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<p>
[quote]
As far as your son's reaction to Williams athletes, that makes me laugh a little because I have heard Williams athletes say the same thing about Amherst athletes. A number of my kids' friends play sports at both schools, and really, the kids are all pretty darn similar!

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I don't disagree!! :) But from an 18 year old's perspective, his "friends" at Amherst are more like him and those he knows who attend Williams, he just doesn't like so much. Let's just say, "he's a tool" was mentioned frequently. Let's also remember he's talking about only 2 or 3 kids that he knows well enough AND who play sports at either school. But why he liked a school or didnt apply a lot of times was very arbitrary in my adult viewpoint. And it is also true that he thought the Amherst essay was much more introspective and that too fit with his already formed slight prejudices.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
From the perspective of our rivalry, I guess it's good news for Amherst--means more applicants than Williams has to choose from.

[/quote]
Historically, Amherst has long had this advantage. Amherst seems to have broader appeal than Williams, and gets more total applicants, even though it is the smaller school. Since Amherst has a larger applicant pool for fewer available slots, it has more applicants per slot than Williams does. If Williams apps are falling, then this difference is likely to become even more pronounced.</p>

<p>On the other hand, Williams has a different strength: it seems to attract particularly committed applicants. For example, Amherst gets more total applicants, but Williams gets more ED applicants. And while total applications to Williams were down significantly this year, ED applications jumped to the [url=<a href="http://www.williams.edu/admin/news/releases/1743/%5Dhighest%5B/url"&gt;http://www.williams.edu/admin/news/releases/1743/]highest[/url&lt;/a&gt;] level ever -- almost 40% more ED applications than [url=<a href="http://amherststudent.amherst.edu/current/news/view.php?year=2008-2009&issue=13&section=news&article=05%5DAmherst%5B/url"&gt;http://amherststudent.amherst.edu/current/news/view.php?year=2008-2009&issue=13&section=news&article=05]Amherst[/url&lt;/a&gt;] received.</p>

<p>So while both schools are comparably selective, Amherst admissions tends towards a "larger pool, less ED, smaller yield" model while Williams tends towards a "smaller pool, more ED, larger yield" model. For a while it looked the differences were shrinking, but now it looks like they may be starting to grow again.</p>

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<p>We visited both schools, and my son liked both. He felt that Amherst was a bit warmer (I mean in terms of temperament, not temperature ;)), and I felt similarly. Still, that impression is based on the very limited exposures you get on a visit; admissions office staff, tour guides, incidental encounters with students.</p>

<p>He applied ED to Amherst, but had that not worked out he certainly would have applied to Williams in RD. I think Tufts and Williams were his two favorites after Amherst.</p>

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<p>I understand Modadunn - I've seen some arbitrary decisions made in my home too. Your son's reasons are better than many others I've heard!</p>

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<p>D and I went on a crappy (weather) week in Feb of '08. Went to Williams first and really liked it until she stepped on the campus at A. She felt A had everything Williams had, was "prettier" and had the 5 college consortium and a great little college town, and was far less isolated. After she saw A she said she just felt like she "belonged" there. Interesting the way people feel sometimes.</p>

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<p>Why/how does Wesleyan go up over 20% in this environment?</p>

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<p>I think I probably went up to both in that same week in Feb 08, Jessephen. I liked both, but Amherst had far more appeal. What was interesting was that I went with my father, and he absolutely ADORED Williams. Fell in love. Wanted me to apply ED. But I didn't feel any real connection with it, and the only real reason I ended up applying was because of that excellent exchange program they have with Oxford for junior year. I won't be accepted, though.</p>

<p>Also, a word about the essays: I definitely agree with what's been said about the prompts. I had no idea how to interpret the Williams essay so I dashed off a short but decently written piece about an experience at summer camp a few years ago--a far cry from my best work. Meanwhile, I agonized about Amherst's essay too, but in the best way possible. I found that each prompt had deep meaning in my life, and ended up writing a pretty heartfelt account of a difficult relationship I had with my english teacher Freshman year. I won't get into Amherst either, but writing their essay was a much more enjoyable experience.</p>

<p>Oh, and a word about Wes: Obama, explosions in liberalism, MGMT, and no supplemental essay. Awesome that the school my college advisor deemed my "true match, true fit" probably won't accept me in this climate either, haha.</p>

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<p>I believe Wes's no supplemental essay actually makes it an inferior application in the sense the applicants aren't really forced to sit down and figure out why they want to go to this place.</p>

<p>For those who really feel connected to Wes, also puts them at a disadvantage, where do they get to have their voice heard? Interview?</p>

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<p>Early Decision.</p>

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<p>actions do speak louder than words, yes.</p>

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<p>Oh, it makes me pretty mad that there was no supplemental essay, but I know plenty of people who applied BECAUSE there was no supplemental essay.</p>

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<p>I was extremely disappointed that Wesleyan didn't ask for a supplemental essay. That, coupled with the fact there were no alum interviewers in my area.</p>