My recruited athlete ‘20 was required to submit his scores to the Ivies along with the NESCAC’s last year (summer of 2020) for pre-reads. Even NESCAC’s that were test optional “required” them. It might have changed in the fall due to difficulty in scheduling, but for pre-reads it was definitely expected. We also found that the NESCAC schools had higher requirements for athletes than did the Ivies.
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Not all coaches nor all NESCACs and Ivies are requiring test scores for pre-reads and/or admissions (in both 20 and 21) got recruited athletes. The more selective NESCACs (Williams, Amherst, Bowdoin) have always had higher academic requirements than the Ivies).
Thanks for all above who sent kind thoughts. Much like @Acccdad, it’s a frustrating year to have a kid that really might have fallen in a different spot if it weren’t a pandemic year.
In talking with the school college counselor, she said that really what they have to consider is that without any kind of testing brackets, “the guardrails are off.” So, in these top schools, there’s just no longer any kind of rhyme or reason.
I also agree with @gotham_mom that removing the supplemental essay did not help a top student. My daughter had always had that in her app process and then we realized they had removed it. It was really the chance for a student to make their case for why they were the right fit for Williams and/or what they hoped to achieve there. A paper submitted, portfolio, etc. are all something prepared outside of the context of the college.
There is no other competitive school that she’s consider that has zero supplementals. Even if they are short answer, they are something. The fact that Williams had nothing had always given me a pit in my stomach.
We’re figuring out if/what she might send on to Williams with a letter of continued interest. And she’s heading out to St. Louis to visit Wash U this coming Friday, b/c an EDII is a commitment (and giving up on Williams). It’s by far the best strategic choice she has left given the brutal numbers coming back last year and this year already. Going RD would be a gamble. But, she’d have to see herself loving Wash U versus Williams, and the two are quite different. (We always saw advantages to both - and let her lead the decision.)
Not sure what’s happening elsewhere, but the results here in the private school community in Baltimore, MD, have been strikingly disappointing. At least my daughter has good company, but it’s nothing like two years ago. Just brutal. 
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Not to discourage you in anyway, but I’m not sure if EDII will be any better than ED or RD.
I am realizing now that applying ED to Williams didn’t give my daughter any better chance than RD.
She’s going to apply RD to many of top 20 schools, some will be reach, some will be not.
I will be fine with any school, and I will be more than happy even if she goes to less than top 20 schools.
It’s just that she worked so hard all these years to prepare her for her dream school, I couldn’t have asked anymore, that’s the only part I am having hard time dealing with.
Then again, she will be a happy college student a year from now. That’s all matters.
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I got rejected. Pretty shocked I wasn’t at least deferred bc I have a 1550, great recs + ecs and a solid personal essay (looked over by parents who are writers). I also uploaded a music supplement which wasn’t half bad. Do I still have a chance at T20s like Cornell and UPenn even though I got turned down by a less competitive school? Should I try to change my application?
sorry to hear. what instrument for supplement?
Sorry to hear that! GPA?
Keep in mind that Williams ED is very competitive if you are unhooked.
@Mwfan1921 , want to weigh in here? My first thought - after the GPA question - is that parents who are writers aren’t necessarily equipped for college essay writing. Might be worth having a college essay professional just glance at the essay to see if it might be missing the mark in any way.
gpa is a 97.5 at a top twenty public high school in the country. Never got below a 90 in a class so that would be 4.0 unweighted, I think. I also went over my college essay pretty extensively with one of those counselor people, so I think it is good enough. I do a ton of community service stuff and lead the NY chapter of an organization with over 150,000 hours of service this year. A ton of other community-based ecs in only politics and econ so I wouldn’t say unhooked but maybe not as impressive as URM/legacy/athlete, especially given that im from nyc.
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Agreed on all points…not many spots for unhooked applicants at the LACs.
I would have your GC take a look at the CA essay(s) too.
With that said we don’t know user129’s stats, and rigor. Certainly Penn and Cornell are reaches as Williams was. @user129 where else have you applied? Any acceptances yet?
You are clearly a very impressive candidate, which I am sure makes the Williams decision more perplexing. Seriously, congratulations on your many accomplishments and hard work. You may just have not met any of their institutional needs at this time but you could at another selective school.
FYI, unhooked means you don’t hit a category that may get extra attention due to admissions priorities - they are generally URM, legacy, recruited athlete, rare geography or major donor. Williams in particular has a disproportionate number of recruited athletes for their small school size so their ED “boost” is very small.
As to whether you should change your app, I think it wouldn’t hurt to pass it by another professional or counselor to see if they think your story is clear and compelling. Then of course make sure you are able to show your fit to the places you apply.
eta: if you are at a top 20 high school in the country, your guidance counselor (or whichever one there is the most college app savvy) may give you additional insight specific to your school’s outcomes.
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I’m also from Baltimore, but a public school. Just got into Williams ED w/o test scores but it’s hard to celebrate bc close friends have gotten deferred from similar schools (and they’re extremely qualified). Makes me sad and I wonder if the fact that they are applying from intra competitive (is that a word?) priv schools makes a difference. I wish the best for your daughter!!!
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Celebrate nevertheless. Things tend to work out in the end for qualified and interested candidates, you will see in a few months, and for now, you just got into your dream school. I hope finances will work out too!
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This analysis from a few years ago placed Williams between Penn and Cornell when considered by difficulty of admission:
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Thank you 
Just spoke to my counselor about my application. He suspects that the admissions officers saw my parents’ employment status as a red flag (dad is a therapist, mom doesn’t work, both went to no-name colleges). He said that smaller schools lost a lot of money to the pandemic and might not be willing to give ~60K in aid to a white guy from NYC when many applicants from the city pay full price. Could this be the case? I am still scratching my head over this rejection and am losing confidence for regular decision. Am I going to hit this wall with other prestigious universities?
Oh that is not a pleasant thing to hear even just as a theory. I don’t know what to think of the theory - Williams has an almost $3 billion endowment so they are no ordinary small school. I would like to not blame your parents and go on the theory that Williams only has a handful of spots ED for non-athlete, unhooked students plus the fact that you were likely competing against a larger pool of NY applicants. It may not have been personal at all - they just wanted that cello player from Idaho. Keep in mind, too, that schools love to say they have all 50 states and X number of countries and Williams only has so many spots to do that, too.
So I would say you are still an impressive candidate and do everything you can to craft your RD applications to show your fit and understanding of their programs. Make sure you have targets and safeties including ones where there are fewer Northeast applicants and you are more of a novelty if you can find schools like that you like. If you are still thinking about your list, post a fresh thread on here and ask for advice - people love to give it!
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I am confused. Williams said they are need blind (for US applicants) when evaluating applicants, so the economic status should not be a factor in granting admission or not. Can we really believe in that statement?
That is a highly debated topic here on CC and elsewhere - what is the true definition of Need Blind? Some people believe that adcoms still look at zipcodes and other factors like above and others believe that Need Blind truly is. My guess is that it varies by school but I do hope that schools generally stay true to the concept if they are promoting it.
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Your counselor is steering you incorrectly. Williams is truly need blind. Don’t overthink it. There are way too many qualified candidates for every spot. Sometimes things fall in your favor and sometimes they don’t. Good luck!
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Hi all -
Following up on my DD’s deferral path.
She flew out to Wash U again with my ex-husband, did a tour (we had been before but was during pandemic spring break so we could only register our visit but do an unofficial walkthrough with a former classmate of my Davidson 2024 daughter), met with a student we knew there for coffee at the student center, got fries at Salt & Smoke in the Delmar loop (lol). The student friend had an organic chem final on Dec 22nd. So everything that one could do to try to get behind EDII — and she just couldn’t. She still likes it and would be happy going there, but didn’t love it enough to give up any other options.
So, RD it is - gulp. Given the bloodbath that’s happened here among the talented students in the ED round, this obviously makes me extremely anxious. But I support her decision and always knew it was going to be hard for her to shift her heart from Williams when it had just felt so right to her. The deferral made it too hard to pass on the chance - especially because we do know a lot of students who were denied at top competitive schools, including the other student from her class that applied. (See the PS on this bc relevant for the discussion on need blind vs a family’s ability to give.)
She refined her list - removed some and expanded to include a few more mid-tier schools. Brown and Williams are likely her two most competitive though Wash U not far behind.
She talked with school counselor. One thing that really disappoints me is that the school has no relationship with Williams. No student has gone there for years so it’s not one they have a cxn with. The rep the counselor did know apparently left right before the pandemic. We didn’t even have a “perspective student” zoom since then. We’ve asked her to call and try to make contact to at least register that this kid really wants to go and is qualified and in deferral pool. Know that’s not a huge deal but it’s frustrating when it’s their job, and they’ve known my daughter was interested for three years. In fact, my older daughter had it on her list if she hadn’t gone with ED to Davidson.
And she has a strategy for her “continued interest” letter, plus submitting her scientific research and a recommendation from her chem teacher. She’ll have fantastic grades to report and a few other things happening in Jan. I think it’s a pretty solid package to send.
(Again, sort of miffed at college counselor - she submitted a writing sample essay on Disability in literature from her English class this year plus a technical theatre supplement BUT the science research and a third recommendation was also available as an option. My DD is a STEM girl - has comp sci and chem as her two possible majors on her app. She’s won the science awards, 100 GPA in science honors classes and 5s in all her APs. To ME, this should have gone in with her app?! Her reccs were her advisor who is also the head of the STEM/Comp Sci program and then a history teacher who she has a strong connection with, has for a class on debating the Constitution this year, and helped beyond academics during the pandemic. The idea behind the latter was to show that she wasn’t just a math/science kid. But if a third recc was always an option, plus the research, that should have gone with ED. Grrrr. I guess the bright side of that is that it does make for a consistent package to send that highlights her strengths.)
Sorry for the length - just so anxious as we’ve watched the bad news roll in from the ED round and read more about last year. Williams in particular dropping to 8% admission overall for the first time ever is just brutal timing. This is just not a great year for these kids who have done it all and were helped by some things that have gone away during the pandemic. We knew we come from a competitive area (Baltimore private school system) and she’s unhooked there. (Wouldn’t apply to Princeton where she’s a double legacy from me and her father, of course, right?!!)
Given that Williams says it has typically taken 20 to 30 from the deferred list (and we are adjusting that to down to 10 to 20 given pandemic numbers like last year), her odds are still slightly better. And we’re hoping some kids will EDII elsewhere and remove themselves from the pool so that might go up.
At this point, we’re just supporting her as she slogs through finishing her other applications - and we’ll hope for the best!
Best of luck to everyone out there!
~ scattermomgram
PS. As to the other female student who was straight up denied in ED, she was the worst possible other student to apply against from their small all-girls private school in our mind. This other student is head of the student body this year, has been class president twice in upper school, is capt of lax and squash team, strong student, “wins awards every year” kind of kid. We knew that academically the other student was not as strong - solid, but not very top - and honestly, I think the college counselor should have been more blunt with her about that. The girl had an offer to play lax at Bowdoin and declined to ED to Williams. That’s a shame bc now that opportunity is gone, and Bowdoin is a fantastic school and so similar to Williams. At any rate, the big unspoken concern is that her family would have been an obvious positive for Williams. In fact, her mother (Dartmouth alum) and her maternal grandfather donated a many million-dollar BUILDING to Hopkins in the last two years. Gulp. That hung in the air without a word when we knew she was the only other ED app to Williams this year. In the end, this other student was fully denied. Family is kind of in shock, honestly. I strongly believe her academics were just not strong enough and was relieved that Williams had at least reflected that in their decision to deny her and defer my daughter. So, to the student above and those debating, I really do think they do not weigh that financial gain as much as some might tout in the commentary.
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