hi-sounds like your dd is making a good, well informed decision. she really DOES sound like a great fit. May i ask why not apply to Princeton?
The Forbes article linked below, in which Williams appears, isnât a bad source to consider for those deferred or denied at Williams. It seems that a few of the colleges included (e.g., Hamilton and Vassar) share more attributes with Williams than some of the alternative colleges discussed in this thread.
Best wishes to your daughter. I am certain she will shine wherever she eventually decides to go.
One thing that caught my eye in your post is that your high school has no cxn with Williams & no one has gone there for years from school. From my experience digging into the whole admissions process, I have concluded that Colleges rely on feeder schools in EDs as they are familiar with curriculum, rigor and cxns with GCs. Usually students are represented by their local college reps in front of AOs and if rep is not familiar with high school it will become uphill task.
In nut shell, as you decide on go forward strategy do take into consideration past admissions from your high school to different colleges as that shows awareness of colleges about your detailed high school report ⊠curriculum, rigor, opportunities etc
Your daughter worked hard and is so talented, it is so hard to fall in love with a school with so few spots available. I think I might have missed where you shared why WashU as a next option? It seems so different from Williams.
Pieces of what she loves about Williams can be found at many NE LACs. For example if she likes those Oxford seminars, I think she can do research projects and independent studies at many LACs that strike me as a similar experience. To me, I would be looking at teaching quality to approximate Williams since that is such a strength. (Us news has an undergrad teaching ranking and niche polls students).
Williams used to be first on my S22âs list but he looked around and found other schools that were similar in the parts he likes about Williams and there were more students (he was concerned about the small size). He ended up not even considering EDing to Williams because of how much hooked students dominate their ED pool.
Good luck and I hope she can get excited about other schools during the next few months just in case!
Regarding LOCI, are we not supposed to send it?
I thought that deferred letter said that no need to do anything.
We were advised by folks last year and the college counselor that while it was not required, it was not frowned upon (a la UVA and some other schools). Hers will really be a cover letter to the materials she is sending that were always offered as options. Itâs very in line with the âonly include these thingsâ guidance out there.
There was someone above who had a student deferred last year and then got in RD who also sent a letter as well, I believe.
Thanks for your thoughts. It was above somewhere but basically she just had a really good experience at Wash U with a student she knew who was very similar in profile to my daughter. The student studies similar things and had been involved in some activities that appeared to my daughter. They had done tech together at school and she shared some experiences. Plus she really likes the residential set up with the South 40 and Villages. You can only appreciate that if you visit, I think! Sheâs also a vintage record, funky Doc Martens kid and the Delmar Loop is very her style. But itâs a much bigger school and a University vs College. They are very different, and weâve always pointed that out to her.
She has some of the other LACs on her list. Sheâs sort of a funky applicant bc sheâs comp sci / chem focused - a STEM profile - but also doesnât want to give up a more rounded education yet. (Ruled our MIT and Carnegie Mellon for those reasons.) Some LACs are explicitly not great for that. (Anecdotally, the student at Amherst straight up said in the tour - âDonât come here if you want to be an engineer.â While standing in their beautiful new science building. I was so annoyed.)
The things she loved at Williams, however, were some of the small intangibles. She loved the entry system. The fact that 60% of fresh live in singles. (She likes her space - an introvert - but then wanted to bake for everyone in the kitchens on each floor.) She really liked that they absolutely do not have a Greek system - sheâs not so much a fan. Sheâs the head of technical theatre / stage management and fell head over heels when we were given a tour of the 62 Center from a student when we visited three years ago with our older daughter. And the theatre and student-run aspect is actually one unique aspect to Williams vs some of the other schools. You could count on a very small small list how many offered the chance to submit a technical theatre supplement vs just performing arts/drama for the theater side.
Iâm ok with her having one that she keeps as âshooting her shotâ. I fell in love with Princeton that way and declined an favorable scholarship to UNC bc of that love. Have never regretted that decision for one second.
Sheâs my practical kid though, so she knows that itâs a challenging road with no guarantees. Sheâs got to have a list and may end up somewhere else. Has a spreadsheet going, actually. lol. Besides Brown and Tufts on her reach, sheâs added Wesleyan, Trinity, Swarthmore.
It will work out the way itâs meant to, I know! Iâve got one who graduated HS in 2020 so Iâve just recently been through this, though the changes with the pandemic and test optional are striking. âGuard rails are offâ is how our counselor put it.
We shall see!
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I absolutely agree with you. And I saw it in action with my oldest - made all the difference at Davidson ED. I have been annoyed about this all fall - but I felt like my hands were tied. Still are. I pushed the college counselor to call the rep personally, not just take the general email she received about the ED round. If sheâs deciding not to ED elsewhere and strengthening her app, I hope the counselor will make try to establish some relationship. Itâs frustrating for a MD private school like ours to have no cxn. I donât mean that to sound entitled - itâs just a reality.
Was she offered a lax spot at Williams via ED and Williams
denied her? Or did she go unhooked ED?
If I remember correctly from my daughterâs search both Macalester & Barnard had opportunities in theater tech. Also Vassar to some degree (which is where she is attending) - I canât really remember now who had what.
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hi-sounds like your dd is making a good, well informed decision. she really DOES sound like a great fit. May i ask why not apply to Princeton?
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Sigh on Princeton.
She just thought it was âtoo Ivyâ if thatâs such a thing. Sheâs decided itâs not her scene after years of knowing us, visiting, reunions (which is a big deal in an ongoing fashion, if you know PU), etc. She didnât love the Eating Club system, even though there are options that are not exclusive. Her father and I had both been pretty social but in fairly broad circles (âsign inâ eating club, if youâre familiar with the system). Just felt like the whole place was too Fitzgerald for her.
It meant she never gave the academics a chance.
My older also declined to apply even though it would have been a perfect school for her. She decided she wanted to stand on her own and know she found her own home in college, got in on her own merit, and had her own experience. I canât fault her for that - one of those occasions where you think, âOh, I raised her to make these decisions, so now I need to respect them!â
Maybe a grandchild someday� 
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Regarding the other student, she was not offered a lax spot at Williams. Just decided she loved Williams and applied ED, declined opportunity at Bowdoin. Then, was denied from Williams.
Thanks for these thoughts. She has a theatre friend that went to Macalester, so it may be on her list? Iâll mention the others to her. Thanks!
Thatâs interesting about Princeton. My dd also loves Williams. And I really love Williams. She cares a lot about music and decided she wanted to try for Princeton. Miraculously, she got in EA. She still is feels like there is something special about Williams that she wonât find at Princeton. I feel like I really know Williams from numerous visits but feel I know far less about the culture at Princeton. I share a lot of your ddâs concernsâŠ
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âSigh on Princetonâ is exactly how I feel. @scattermomgram DD sounds a lot like mine in her thinking - they may yet end at the same school. (I hope that is Williams!)
The irony is that those concerns donât really hold up. Princeton is still wonderful but itâs social make up is very different from what it was 30 years ago. Take a look at last yearâs class for example. 20% first generation, 68% POC. 70% of students come from families with household incomes less than $110,000.
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So tough.
I feel bad for the friend who was denied. She had bad advice. If she was offered a lax spot at Bowdoin that means her academics alone would not get her in., and if she canât get into Bowdoin with her transcript sheâs not getting into Williams. Even if they are wealthy, 6-figure gifts donât get you in to a school with a 3B endowment,âŠhave seen it happen twice.
Tell your daughter to hang in there, have her reach out to admissions and make SURE they know that Williams is her first choice. Yield is an important metric.
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I know - I do too. Particularly when the schools have such a similar profile. It will be interesting to see where she ends up.
My daughter is going to send her grades in with a brief note with emphasis that Williams is most definitely her first choice. I hadnât even thought about yield - thatâs a good point.
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Congrats to your daughter on Princeton. I loved it, as did my ex-husband. Several of our friendsâ children go there now. All of that probably contributed to my daughter not wanting to go there. lol
I do feel like Williams has a distinct place in the space of the elite college world. Each of them do, but Williams almost has itâs own culture, if you know what I mean?
I felt like Princeton was just the ultimate COLLEGE experience, if you know what I mean. The residence halls, the traditions, the eating clubs, all the way through our reunion culture. But I chose it because of how closely you work with the top professors. They are there FOR YOU. It never occurred to me that you worked with TAs or other people while at a college/university. James McPherson, Toni Morrison, Cornell West - I just walked up to them in my courses. (Youth is wasted on the young, by the way!) I studied history and really the department was incredible.
BUT, did I think it had a distinct culture like Williams? Iâm not sure. Felt like it was the same scene for my best friend who went to Dartmouth or other friends at schools of the same size. And, also, that was back a long time ago, so its really irrelevant to anyone looking now!
Just musing out loud!
Thanks to anyone who has been here - not sure why Iâm still oversharing, but we have been through the hellish last three weeks since deferral b/c she had no other apps prepared, SO now she settled onââsticking with Williams as her first choice. Sending grades, LOCI, a scientific abstract and third letter of recommendation (latter two should have gone in with app, IMO, not super pleased with her school college counselor on that, among other reasons.)
AND then submitted apps, technical theatre supplement, and anything else possible to: Brown, WashU, Vassar, Middlebury, Trinity, Wesleyan, Lafayette, University of Rochester.
Sheâs downstairs preparing things for a video to submit to two of them tomorrow as we speak.
We are thoroughly exhausted. And not alone in this, I know. Still hoping she lands in those purple mountains come next fall, but itâs gonna be a long time before we know more of anything.
Thanks for everyoneâs support, ideas, thoughts along the way!
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