<p>Hi. This is my first post. I was just admitted by Cornell, Williams, JHU, Northwestern, and the Guaranteed Professional Program Admissions at the University of Illinois at Chicago. Should I go to UIC b/c I will be guaranteed admission to Med school, or should I gamble and go the the undergrad program of my choice so I can have a better undergrad experience than UIC can provide? Where will I have a better chance of getting into a top med school? I read a "Top 50 Feeder Schools" ranking, and it says Williams is # 5, right after HYPS, Northwestern is #21, and JHU and Cornell are 24 and 25. What do you think of this ranking? Where is it more difficult to get a good GPA? Where will I get a better pre-med education? I really need advice. I really want to go to an Ivy league, like Cornell, but I've heard it is really hard on GPA, same as JHU.</p>
<p>I would definitely go with Williams. As a liberal arts college, you can take many more courses related to what you’re actually interested in rather than fulfilling other courses that are required at many research universities. In addition, recommendations for graduate school are guaranteed to be much more personalized at a school like Williams where you can expect unmatched personal attention. You should think about what is important to you in a university other than how good they are at getting their students into medical school. Although this is very important, some students might want to get a job for a few years before going to law, medical, or graduate school. These rankings are misleading and all the schools into which you were admitted will prepare you for medical school.</p>
<p>Have you visited all of the schools? Where do you feel that you will fit in best? What are your extracurricular interests? Williams, JHU, Cornell, and Northwestern are all very different. If you’re pre-med, maybe you should think about internships during the school year.</p>
<p>Yes, I’ve visited all of them… and I can’t make up my mind. One moment I want to go to Williams, and an hour later I feel I have to go to Cornell, because it’s Ivy League, and beautiful. I was also accepted to Northwestern’s ISP, or Integrated Science Program, but I’ve heard it’s real hard on the GPA, and I really want to go to med school, even if I would like the science. Also, I’ve read that JHU is world renowned in pre-med. Would you take the guaranteed admission to UIC?</p>
<p>Most people agree that Cornell is the weakest Ivy League School; no offense. Prestige is important to a lot of people, and here I would say Williams wins by those who are educated. To the average person, Cornell will probably be the most recognizable, but so is ASU and that doesn’t make it an excellent school. I wouldn’t take the guaranteed admission to UIC because it’s just not on par academically with the other schools.</p>
<p>You should really call or email chem and biology professors and current students to hear their perspectives.</p>
<p>Cornell… isn’t that the public school where Dwight goes?</p>
<p>Seriously, Williams is way more selective.</p>
<p>Going to any of these schools, you are virtually guaranteed to get into med school if you want to-- Williams has something like a 96% acceptance rate. What matters is what you want to do on the way there.</p>
<p>Wow, this is really helpful. I just feel like I’d actually be TAUGHT at Williams, as opposed to just attending lectures where there is virtually no student participation. How good is science research at Williams?</p>
<p>[Williams</a> Biology Research](<a href=“http://www.williams.edu/Biology/Research/research.shtml]Williams”>http://www.williams.edu/Biology/Research/research.shtml)</p>
<p>MMM… Williams is starting to sound pretty good. What about JHU?</p>
<p>Has anyone heard about grade deflation at Cornell, JHU, or Northwestern? Is it true that medical schools don’t really compensate for grade deflation in some universities?</p>
<p>Check out Williams pre-med program–they have dedicated counseling that will get you ready for med school pretty much wherever you want to go–Northwestern and especially Hopkins are first rate medical schools–Hopkins is up there with HYS; Northwestern’s not quite in that league. UIC is, no offense, a second tier school at both undergrad and med school. You should also think about setting–UIC/Hopkins/Northwestern are big urban universities; Williams is small school in smaller town-- Williams undergrad and Hopkins med school would be an excellent package</p>
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<p>Well, offense is not taken but, just so the OP can make an educated decision, most people don’t simply agree Cornell is the weakest Ivy. In many disciplines, Cornell is far and away the strongest amongst the Ivies and in others it offers programs the others simply don’t. So, the students are going to the best school in their chosen discipline.</p>
<p>If it were unanimously the “weakest”, then it wouldn’t always be ranked above Brown, often above Dartmouth, and sometimes above UPenn. If admit rates are your criteria, then the University of Chicago might as well be a community college with its high rate and the College of the Ozarks should be churning out presidents with its 6% rate. Cornell’s at 19%, UPenn’s at 17%. Thread, meet the eye of your needle. </p>
<p>So, to the OP, figure out which school feels right for you. Comparing it to Williams, Cornell is simply structured completely differently. It’s a large, diverse, and often specialized school that makes comparison to small liberal arts colleges impossible. Its mission is fundamentally different. If you want, though, you can have a liberal arts experience there should you seek it.</p>
<p>I don’t know about prestige amongst the educated. As someone who’s run in educated circles my whole life, I’ve never noticed any difference in the way people are perceived for having gone to any of these schools. As absurd as it might be, there’s a certain threshold of school that you’re simply accepted into “the club”. I’ve experienced it from graduates of Harvard and Yale as well as all the schools listed in this thread. People don’t differentiate the minute differences the poster above discusses.</p>
<p>I know I sound like a blind booster here, but I’m not. Cornell has its shortcomings, it isn’t for everybody, and Williams very well may be the best choice for the OP. The OP just shouldn’t be dissuaded from a potentially incredible experience amongst the vast resources and avenues of study at a place like Cornell by baseless misinformation.</p>
<p>Good luck in your decision! They’re all incredible schools.</p>
<p>Applejack, Cornell has never been ranked higher than Dartmouth on USNEWS.</p>
<p>Anyway I would choose Williams.</p>
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<p>Talk about a selective memory, slipper! Not that these arbitrary ratings matter at all, but I count at least two times Cornell has been ranked ahead of Dartmouth, and another year where they were tied.</p>
<p>[U.S</a>. News Rankings Through the Years](<a href=“http://chronicle.com/stats/usnews/index.php?category=Universities]U.S”>http://chronicle.com/stats/usnews/index.php?category=Universities)</p>
<p>The OP should obviously first figure out if she would like to be at a small liberal arts college or a large research university. The social environment and the amount of classes and resources at these two types of schools will diverge greatly.</p>
<p>I also would agree that the Wall Street Journal ranking system is largely meaningless. Not only does it have a limited view of what the top graduate schools are, but it also fails to control for the number of students on each campus who are actually interested in attending such graduate programs.</p>
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<p>In addition to Cayuga’s post, USNWR is one for-profit ranking system of many. It is not the final authority. When they changed their metrics, Cornell shot up to 6. So, it’s sort of silly to think Cornell became that much better of a school overnight. NRC is probably the most reliable.</p>
<p>elgin-</p>
<p>My first post as well. Stumbled across this site as my son has been looking at these schools. I can offer some advice as I am a physician and grad of different ivy undergrad and med schools.
I would not recommend doing the program with guaranteed admission to med school. All of my collegues and friends that have done those programs over the years have all had the same response- they wish they had a more traditional undergrad experience. These schools like to lock up some of the promising candidates like yourself. You have the talent and committment to get into med school on your own. Don’t worry about grades!!! Don’t worry about grade inflation/deflation!!!. You are looking at great schools that will place you into grad school. You only have one chance to have a well-rounded undergrad experience- so take advantage of it. You have the rest of your life to be surrounded by medical professionals.</p>
<p>"Going to any of these schools, you are virtually guaranteed to get into med school if you want to-- Williams has something like a 96% acceptance rate. "</p>
<p>This is, unfortunately, not necessarily the case. Many people who start out pre-med never make it the point where there’s even any point in applying. They get weeded out. </p>
<p>As for Williams specifically, the following was posted elsewhere on CC, by a Williams alum:</p>
<p>"My alma mater, a top LAC and rival to Amherst, claims 90% admissions - but the reality is that, given the weed out, the real number is closer to 25-30%. "</p>
<p>I’ve read other posts just like #15 above,where people who took the UIC-type programs wish they’d done otherwise. But at least they did not get weeded out altogether. Of which, in actuality, the risk is not zero. So I think it’s legitimately a tough call.</p>
<p>But if you decide to go elsewhere, suggest think about what environment you’re most likely to thrive in, as a matter of personal preference. To me, based on Ds experience at a larger LAC, the combination of teeny school + teeny surroundings + isolated may have its shortcomings in the last couple years of college. As can limitations in the depth & breadth of courses offered in upperclass years, particularly sub-areas once you get into your major.
And at a small school the degree you fit with the predominant campus culture may need to be considered more, as it can be of some significance socially.</p>
<p>But there may be offsetting benefits to the small school that you prefer.</p>
<p>Clearly either way provides an oft-tred path to medical studies. But in neither case is attaining that guaranteed, IMO.</p>
<p>applejack-
what do you feel are Cornell’s shortcomings qne shy do you feel it isn’t for everyone?</p>
<p>Monydad- I read in Williams’ site that they give recommendations to everyone that applies to medical school, so I assumed there wasn’t much “weeding.” Could you elaborate a little?</p>
<p>NRC is for Doctorate programs.</p>
<p>applejack-
Sorry, I meant to say “and why do you feel it isn’t for everyone?”</p>
<p>"Could you elaborate a little? "</p>
<p>yes I will elaborate.</p>
<p>I read the following posted to CC by a Williams alumnus:</p>
<p>"My alma mater, a top LAC and rival to Amherst, claims 90% admissions - but the reality is that, given the weed out, the real number is closer to 25-30%. "</p>
<p>The post was here, #14:</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/626315-best-liberal-arts-colleges-good-pre-med.html?[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/626315-best-liberal-arts-colleges-good-pre-med.html?</a></p>
<p>This was not the first time I have read comments to this same effect about Williams posted on CC, however I do not recall if the prior posts were made by just one of the two frequent Williams alumni posters on CC, or by both of them. And I do not care to search for the other occurences, though they exist. Both of them seem to keep up with things there pretty well, from what I can tell.</p>
<p>My elaboration is now complete. If you wish additional elaboration suggest you contact the Williams alumnus who made the comment I referenced.</p>