Williams v Princeton

<p>Hi everyone,</p>

<p>I am a rising senior and am looking at Williams and Princeton as my top two choices. I like these schools because they are the best college and university, imo, because they offer so much support and attention to their undergrads. They also seem to have the most loyal alumni, which speaks loads.</p>

<p>Could someone expand on the general differences in the student body between the two schools? Did anyone have to make this decision? Why did you end up choosing Williams over your other options or visa versa?</p>

<p>What do people like to do given what I perceive as limited options in Williamstown?</p>

<p>When I mention that these are my two favorite schools to people who ask, everyone says that princeton is the way to go because of prestige (ignoring that I haven't gotten in either). While I agree that Princeton is more prestigious, how do people normally react when you tell them you go to williams?</p>

<p>Today in the library:
“Where are you going next year?”
“Williams” <em>grin</em>
“Ahhh…” <em>looks away</em></p>

<p>But people who know about Williams:
“Where are you going next year?”
“Williams” <em>sly grin</em>
“OMG really?”</p>

<p>People who know Williams know how good it is, and people who don’t can look at the USNews list for themselves ;]</p>

<p>I agree with kkari, don’t make the decision based on what other people say because they might not know that much about Williams. Make the decision based on which school you want to be at. They are both great schools but different in a lot of ways.</p>

<p>Just apply to both they are excellent schools. However the environments are quite different. :X You can decide after you get in or maybe admissions will help you decide :3</p>

<p>kkari: you are going to williams next year…Congratulations! What led you there and what other schools did you choose it over? Was it your first choice?</p>

<p>Pea and fiona_: you both say that the environments are quite different…how?</p>

<p>I say that because if I can decide Williams, then I will apply early decision.</p>

<p>Princeton: Upscale gorgeous suburb, beautiful Gothic campus. Larger. Traditions of extreme elitism that Princeton is changing rapidly. Still somewhat stratified student body, i.e. some eating clubs are better than others.</p>

<p>Williams: Tiny mountain town, very handsome Federal architecture. Smaller. Tradition of educating poor students, then preppy elitism, now less elitist too. Very egalitarian campus (no themed housing, frats, eating clubs, etc.)</p>

<p>I would argue that Princeton might be more exciting, Williams more homey and easier to participate in clubs, etc. because of coziness.</p>

<p>My S did not apply to HYP. Chose Williams over U of Chicago, Amherst and Brown among others.</p>

<p>There are many great schools. There are LAC’s and Universities. There are schools within great metropolitan communities and schools in far away places. Much of the posturing merely augments the arms of distraction. Schools often cite specific qualities within their walls. They quote benefits and features that will overwhelm your senses and with specific factors of why you need to choose one over another which merely confirms the need to take personal ownership as a member of that particular academic community in making a decision. In reality, you can only take in some of the benefits at any given time. You cannot have all of it. You have to balance academics with your person. You need to look at what you are all about, as an individual human being, and that is not easy. It certainly was not for me, had it not been for my father, and it would have been a lot more stressful, finding a proper fit, without him.</p>

<p>Besides being accepted to both, plus an assortment of other tier one schools, prompted me immediately to send a deposit to Williams. The reason for my immediate response was that all my applications were modeled after this college and my love for it. The rest were merely suitors.</p>

<p>One is often told that you need to apply to divergent tier schools to ensure success. This depends upon who you are and the personality you express. Some prefer the satisfaction of inner confidence, others the cache of wearing what others perceive to be in good taste. </p>

<p>It appears to me that admissions departments do not discriminate against qualified applicants with regards qualifications, as they are more inclined to build out what they perceive to be a balanced class of students, whom they believe will fit their mission and purpose, and thus the anxiety factor.</p>

<p>Well, the fingernail biting and the torment of having to wait for those dreadful letters and wondering what to do to make that pertinent impression, is not an easy passage. </p>

<p>I was grateful that I was accepted to Williams, for there was a perfect fit. I knew this some time ago, long before admissions understood this. </p>

<p>On the other hand, Princeton is a great school, as are other great Universities. Had Williams not accepted me, certainly Princeton would have been given some consideration.</p>

<p>I am Williams. It is primarily an undergraduate institution dedicated to the ideals of an Liberal Arts education. It has tradition and history. It is a community within a forest. For those who are unhappy, cite its isolation. For most of us, this is an ideal environment. As I wanted a 4-1-4 academic program with tutorials, and not a trimester system like Princeton and Dartmouth, my acceptance fulfilled the promise. Plus, I wanted to go skiing, and that was a benefit.</p>

<p>If prestige hangs you up, then by all means attend Princeton, provided you are accepted. I for one, did not care about the cache factor, in that our family and in our nation, when education is a discerning topic of discussion at our table, one understands the appreciation that a Williams College degree confers upon those accepted.</p>

<p>Let us put it this way: if you plan on only attending a school for four years, and public prestige is an important factor, then by all means GO CACHE, for everyone will look askance and wonder how in the hell you came into their presence, but if you plan on pursuing post graduate studies, then either school will fit your imagination, aside from the factors weighing in favor of LAC’s in terms of personal reward, fellowship and scholarship.</p>

<p>thanks for your post horseradish.
what is your major or planned major? </p>

<p>I am very interested in math and have done well in national competitions. Do you know any students who have also done well (eg, USAMO) and gone to williams? I really really like the focus of the profs on their students, but I also think that you learn as much from your peers outside of class as you learn from professors inside of class.</p>

<p>Princeton has one of the best math departments right? I think Princeton is kinda similar to Williams compared to some other Ivies because of its smaller student body and focus on undergraduate teaching.</p>

<p>Current student here:</p>

<p>“I am very interested in math and have done well in national competitions. Do you know any students who have also done well (eg, USAMO) and gone to williams?”</p>

<p>I’m not a math person, but one of the things everyone is “supposed to do” before graduation is to take a math course, because our math department is amazing. See [Math/Stat[/url</a>] and [url=<a href=“http://blogs.williams.edu/Morgan/]Frank”>http://blogs.williams.edu/Morgan/]Frank</a> Morgan](<a href=“http://blogs.williams.edu/math/]Math/Stat[/url”>http://blogs.williams.edu/math/) for two web presences, though these don’t begin to show how great they are.</p>

<p>“Could someone expand on the general differences in the student body between the two schools? Did anyone have to make this decision? Why did you end up choosing Williams over your other options or visa versa?”</p>

<p>I made the choice to apply to Williams ED, and chose not to apply to Princeton because of the systematic segregation of the student body. Williams is much more egalitarian - a capella groups will announce the locations of their parties at concerts so that everyone can come.</p>

<p>But bottom line is that you should visit, and pay attention to whether you want 3-4 years in the remote mountains or suburban Jersey. That’s a qualitative difference, but its important. Also, I think you can find happiness at either place.</p>

<p>“What do people like to do given what I perceive as limited options in Williamstown?”</p>

<p>There are always things to go to. If you read the posters in the student center, and the announcement messages, you will never lack for things to do. Do you have a more specific question?</p>

<p>I’ve been to Williams and I’ve been to my share of Ivy League campuses and the biggest difference IMO, is the degree of informality between the two. At Williams, there is an assumption that even if you haven’t met everyone by the end of freshmen year, at least you are all connected by the weather, the beautiful surroundings, and the fact that there’s not that much to do off-campus; there’s almost always something that’s happened the night before or about to happen about which everyone is either informed or, would like to be. There’s a bubble.</p>

<p>I’ve noticed that at Columbia, Penn, Cornell Yale, Harvard and, to some extent – even Dartmouth – where you live, where you eat, what sport you play, are all much bigger deals. Members of both sexes are more apt to pay attention to how they look and dress because, “you never know who you might see” (or, see you) that day. At Williams, after the first snowstorm of the season, no one really cares how you’re dressed.</p>

<p>Wow, I’ve been reading this thread and that’s exactly what I found to be true when I went to Williams Previews.</p>

<p>Another thing I’d like to add (that was a factor in the Williams vs. Cornell decision) was that everyone at Williams that I saw was extremely friendly. Everyone is indeed connected by simply living at the College, and almost all of the upperclassmen/current students I saw said “hi” to practically EVERYONE. One girl that was a complete stranger bought me a meal with her meal card (the whole 10 guest meals plan in action) because I was about to have to pay 10 dollars for a Grab 'n Go (a total ripoff). Everyone is extremely helpful on campus, and you can tell that there’s a strong sense of community.
I don’t know much about Princeton, but I did not apply there because I didn’t like the idea of eating clubs and social class divisions that were that obvious on campus.</p>

<p>I sat in on some classes at williams and Prof. Morgan was one of them. I thought he was pretty zany (in a very good way), and people say he is really brilliant and an excellent teacher. People said he is the standout of the department. How would you say the rest of the professors are, especially in contributing to their field? Even though I really value that student-faculty interaction, it is important to be around the people shaping their field when given an option. Otherwise, it is too much like highschool. While I feel confident that more princeton professors are shaping their field, it is not true that andrew wiles or paul krugman is teaching any classes to undergraduates in the upcoming year (i checked their course catalog, but I could be wrong.)</p>

<p>I don’t know if anyone else felt this way when they were visiting schools, but I almost always feel better about a school after I sit in on a teacher who is considered among the worst in their department. I know it can only go up from there.</p>

<p>Congratulations on Williams ms chanandler bong :). What were the reasons you chose it over your other schools? Are you a math guy?</p>

<p>thank you to everyone for their responses. i am finding this very interesting, and please let me know if anyone could expand more on the accomplishments of the williams math students.</p>

<p>Yeah, that can be the problem—you’re around those people at Princeton yet most of the time you are not “around” them. But you can always try to reach out to them.</p>

<p>TBoyle- You might look into Williams summer math research program for undergraduates. Students from various colleges/universities participate. This link will also provide you info about Williams math dept. </p>

<p>[url=<a href=“http://math.williams.edu/small/]Math/Stat[/url”>SMALL – Mathematics & Statistics]Math/Stat[/url</a>]</p>

<p>Apply and then receive offers of acceptance before worrying about this one. The odds are very much against being accepted at both.</p>

<p>^ I just think he’s doing good research. Though both are extremely selective (especially Princeton… 9% is not a good statistic), it never hurts to know about schools in depth.</p>

<p>I’m actually not a math guy at all: I’m a premed/language geek. Though Williams isn’t known for languages, its sciences are fantastic (a draw) and the community feel is something special. I still will probably be a Spanish major even though that’s not the premier department at Williams, and will do pre-med along with it. Premed is supposed to be great at Williams, and I feel that the science courses offered are really interesting. I chose it over Cornell and Tufts mostly because of the community feel, the location, the overall atmosphere, and more flexibility with the curriculum (that one’s with regard to Cornell, I got into the Human Bio major at their College of Human Ecology, which is not a liberal arts major). I mainly felt that I wanted to be in a liberal arts setting like Williams while also having a pre-professional goal, rather than going to a place whose student body was mostly pre-professional.</p>

<p>And I probably wouldn’t have gotten into Princeton, had I applied :wink:
(Joking)</p>

<p>thanks everyone for the posts…keep em coming i am finding them to be very helpful.</p>

<p>minky, i know it is early in the summer, but the idea is that if i could decide on williams confidently, i would apply early decision.</p>

<p>What level of math are you headed into? I can guarantee that of all LAC’s Williams is by far the strongest. There are however, a few caveats-- one being that Princeton, by virtue of its graduate programs and larger student body, will inevitably offer more courses in higher math. So the big question is what type of math you want to study and how high do you want to go in it in college? You should look at the course guide. As for the Professors, I have heard excellent things about their teaching; I loved Professor Morgan’s class too. But they aren’t exactly the type to shut themselves away for 10 years in total secrecy in order to solve Fermat’s last theorem. Namely they’re good teachers, but they aren’t Andrew Wiles (and honestly, I think it’s better that way). In terms of the quality of math undergrads coming out of Williams, it’s high. Consider this: of all US Fields Medal Winners ever, both Princeton and Williams can claim one undergraduate.</p>

<p>Pawn, are you a math major?</p>

<p>So right now I do not know exactly what I want to study in math, but that I would really like to pursue math in general and possibly double major in economics. I have taken bc calc, linear algebra, graph theory, and combinatorics, but I have not taken multivarialbe calc. I would like my math education to go as high as I can fly, but also want to find a good fit for me (which is why MIT is out). That is interesting with the fields medal winners and certainly notable. I checked and I don’t think I saw and harvard undergrads there. </p>

<p>However, what would you say about the general level of the students in the math major? do you know anyone who comes to williams specifically for the math department like they do at princeton?</p>

<p>I have checked the course catalog for the upcoming year, and there are certainly a lot of upper level math courses but unfortunately I don’t know what subset of math I will find most interesting. Has anyone had a problem with the course offerings by year, meaning that have you not been able to take a class that you wanted to because you didnt have the prerequisites the year it was offered and would not be able to take it the next year. For example, I am concerned that a senior level course I find interesting may be offered while I am a junior and not when I am a senior, leaving me unable to take it. If someone is a math major and/or would be willing to do some leg work, could someone compare the course offerings at Williams and Princeton?</p>

<p>williams course catalog - <a href=“http://catalog.williams.edu/catalog.php?&subjinfo=math[/url]”>http://catalog.williams.edu/catalog.php?&subjinfo=math&lt;/a&gt;
Princeton course catalog - [Timetable</a> of Courses « Office of the Registrar](<a href=“http://registrar.princeton.edu/timetable/]Timetable”>Course Offerings | Office of the Registrar)
YOU NEED TO SELECT “MAT” AND THEN HIT SEARCH for princeton’s catalog</p>

<p>When I compare the two, it seems to me that williams has significantly MORE advanced course offerings, but I fear that I may be overlooking something, so that is why I am asking. Has anyone taken tutorials in math? would that make up for the lack of offerings at a higher level, if, infact, williams has less of a selection than princeton. I am not sure how tutorials work, but it seems to me that they rest a large degree on the caliber of your partner. Is that a fair assessment?</p>