Williams vs Dartmouth vs Northwestern

<p>Hi,
I've visited all three schools, and really did like all three. I couldn't do a tour at Dartmouth, though.</p>

<p>I'm trying to decide which is a better fit for myself. Since I have NO idea what I want to study, I haven't been able to narrow it down much academically (other than I prefer smaller class sizes). Northwestern impressed me with their research/job-getting ability and Williams impressed me with their intense classes and amazing resources/study abroad programs.</p>

<p>So I guess, for me, the differences come down to more of the intangible things- the social scene, what life is like there.</p>

<p>A bit about myself...I'm pretty quiet, sorta shy, not really into partying/drinking and all that. I love the outdoors, hiking/biking, but I'm not so good at it to be looking at competing or anything. I prefer more rural schools (mostly I don't like big cities), which I guess is going to conflict with my not wanting to be surrounded by drinking 24/7.
I guess what I want most is a school where I'm going to fit in socially. I'm sure I could find a niche of people similar to me at any of these schools, but I don't want to feel isolated or disconnected?</p>

<p>Thanks for your help :)</p>

<p>For you, I would recommend Williams > Dartmouth > Northwestern.</p>

<p>Is there any particular reasoning?</p>

<p>CC’s overrating of LAC and obession with the Ivy league.</p>

<p>Is there any reason why you’re trying to choose between the three already? Are you picking one to apply to early?</p>

<p>If you like all three schools a lot, there’s really no reason (unless the cost of applying is an issue) not to apply to all three and see where you get in. If you do happen to get into more than one of them, the admitted students days may provide you with additional insight.</p>

<p>It seems odd that you’re considering Northwestern since you prefer a rural campus and you don’t like big cities. Indeed, it seems odd that you would at once consider both Williams and Northwestern.</p>

<p>Williams is in the middle of nowhere and considered very active. sounds good for you.</p>

<p>

I agree. The 2013 RD admit rates:</p>

<p>Dartmouth 11.0%
Williams 18.2%
Northwestern 20.8%</p>

<p>It’s reasonably unlikely an applicant would get into all three. Why not apply to all of them and decide once (or if) you get acceptances?</p>

<p>Dartmouth has one of the strongest study abroad programs in the nation and being larger than W, has more offerings to explore. But, D is definitely a party-hard school (greek scene), as is Williams and Northwestern. Both D and W offer a much tighter-knit community.</p>

<p>

Williams (like most northeastern LACs) has no Greek scene: frats and sororities have been flatly banned since ~ 1970, and the ban is rigorously enforced. The social environment is completely coed; this contrasts with the situation at Dartmouth and many other larger schools, where social life is dominated by gender-segregated frats and sororities. LACs typically take the position that gender integration promotes a more orderly and mature social environment. </p>

<p>There is certainly drinking at Williams and other New England LACs. However, LAC party scenes are often considered tame relative to those at larger schools. This probably reflects (1) the absence of fraternities, and (2) the greater willingness of LAC administrators to regulate or interfere with student social life. LACs (including Williams) tend to be relatively paternalistic; they monitor the social environment carefully, and they routinely ban all kinds of exclusive social organizations that are common at the Ivies, including secret societies and eating clubs as well as frats and sororites. The Ivies and other larger schools tend to have a more “hands-off” attitude towards student social life, which may have either good or bad effects, depending on your perspective.</p>

<ol>
<li>Williams</li>
<li>Dartmouth</li>
<li>Northwestern</li>
</ol>

<p>is right.
You should strongly consider Middlebury as a match, if you’re competitive for admission to those three schools.</p>

<p>^Agreed. I’d actually even say get rid of Nwestern, though.</p>

<p>i think williams is very similar to northwestern except that the latter is in a suburban environment. i would say you should take a closer look at northwestern. all schools are equally reputable and competitive.</p>

<p>hm, i don’t think that’s right. williams is very small, while northwestern is not. williams has a very small presence of graduate students, while northwestern has a very significant presence of graduate students. williams is a liberal arts environment, while northwestern is a very preprofessional environement. williams is rural and secluded, while northwestern is right next to a major city.</p>

<p>

Indeed. 2005-2007 liquor law violations included 323 at Williams, 493 at Dartmouth, and 920 at Northwestern.</p>

<p>Averaged, you get…</p>

<ol>
<li>Williams: 108 (5.05%)</li>
<li>Dartmouth: 165 (4.02%)</li>
<li>Northwestern: 307 (3.79%)</li>
</ol>

<p>Compare to the averages of 18 (1.21%) at Swarthmore, 47 (2.33%) at Carleton, and 56 (3.68%) at Pomona.</p>

<p>

I’m skeptical that Williams is more “tame” than its larger counterparts. In a survey at Williams, nearly half of the students surveyed had participated in binge drinking in the last two weeks.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Of course, this is hardly limited to Williams. Middlebury has it as well.

</p>

<p>Without reading this whole thread let me just point out:</p>

<p>First Williams and Dartmouth are VERY isolated, doing a school-year internship in an urban area while attending these schools is an impossibility. As is a summer internship while staying at your on/off campus housing. </p>

<p>Northwestern, by contrast, is located within easy commuting distance of Chicago.</p>

<p>This is, in my opinion, the most glaring contrast between these schools.</p>

<p>The Second most glaring contrast is that Northwestern is a true university. Williams is a pure liberal arts school, while I have been told Dartmouth feels like a liberal arts school. Do some research on what exactly this means in terms of campus experience (access to professors vs. research opportunities, etc) to determine which you would prefer in a college.</p>

<p>That being said, you definitely can’t go wrong at any of these places.</p>

<p>Not to mention Bowdoin has long battled a very persistent rumor of a heavy drinking problem.</p>

<p>I wouldn’t put much stock in those drinking citation numbers as indicative of anything useful. First, the numbers are small enough that the differences aren’t all that substantial. More importantly, they reflect, at least as much as they do student drinking rates, the interest in local police in enforcement. Williamstown police have basically very little to do other than patrol student drinking, so it is unsurprising numbers of arrests would be proportionally higher. Even still, we are talking very small numbers. At almost any school that will interest you, there will be plenty of drinking, but also plenty of non-drinkers (or very sporadic drinkers). I think you’d probably prefer schools without a substantial frat scene, as that definitely has an impact on campus life. </p>

<p>Given what you’ve described, Williams sounds like a good match. I’d also consider Haverford, Middlebury, Bowdoin, Macalaster, Carleton, Kenyon, Amherst, some of which are substantially easier to get into than Williams or Dartmouth.</p>

<p>

Realistically, excessive drinking occurs at just about every rural school in the northeast, from large research universities to small LACs. It seems to go with the territory and the long snowy winters. Conversely, I suspect that marijuana and other drugs are probably less available and less widely used than at more urban schools, though I don’t have any statistics to back this up.</p>

<p>In my experience, the schools with the least drinking are those that are all-female. Conversely, while there are no longer any all-male schools in the northeast, there are still many schools with all-male social clubs (i.e. fraternities), and these organizations tend to be associated with particularly heavy alcohol use. The people who want to party hard in college are generally attracted to schools with strong Greek systems, rather than to Greek-less LACs. </p>

<p>So if you are interested in northeastern schools, but want to avoid heavy drinking, then my advice would be to consider (1) a women’s college, (2) a former women’s college that has gone coed, or (3) a coed school where Greek organizations are banned. My two cents only.</p>

<p>Yes, underage drinking and binge drinking comes with the territory of college life, especially at isolated schools. The point of my post was to mention that Bowdoin has a PARITCULARLY close history with excess drinking (or at least a rumor of one such history).</p>