<p>I get the sense that the family has been over-invested in your daughter’s grades. If you projected to her that you were in any way “shocked” that she received and 89 in a class, even if she is a top student, that’s a lot of pressure. I’m positive you don’t want to pressure her, but it probably would be important to take a look at some of you and your wife’s expectations in regard to her depression. I’m not trying to be critical, but sometimes our kids want to please us so much that we don’t really need to be shocked in order for them to feel our disappointment. They just know. And having parents who went to schools like Columbia and NYU does not help at all. It sets the bar very high (probably since grade school) so you need to work even harder to balance your expectations.</p>
<p>There are lots of schools that would be happy to have a bright talented student like your D. However, they might not be the prestigious type of schools that you listed in your legacy list. Maybe that’s for the best, as those types of big busy schools might not provide the best support for your D’s socio-emotional needs. As others have suggested, a small LAC might work better. A good place to start looking for that type of best-fit school is by reading through the Colleges That Change Lives books.</p>
<p>Now is a good time to concentrate on your daughter getting to a good place emotionally. </p>
<p>If she seems ready for college in the summer, set up some college visits. My suggestion is to milk those stellar SAT scores for a nice merit scholarship at a fine but not tippy-top school. Ideally it would not be too far from home. I say this a mom of extraordinarily bright D (top 1% SATs) that went to a tough college program when not ready. It didn’t work out, and the fact that it was close to home minimized the parental anguish when she struggled.</p>
<p>i want to tell you that depression and under achieving has been a lifelong issue for me. It was never really addressed. When I didn’t perform up to my abilities in HS, they just said I was an “under achiever.” I think the fact that I was female had a lot to do with the fact that this was let slide, since I graduated from HS in 1971. I was a NMF back when it was a separate test, and had the highest V score on the SAT in my class, but I was the last person in the top 20% of my class only because of weighting: I took all honors/AP/accelerated classes. My grades in a single class would swing from an A to a C and back again depending on whether I handed stuff in.</p>
<p>In college, my depression really flowered. I received a very small amount of grossly inadequate therapy. When I went home after freshman year, my mother wanted to know what was wrong with me. When I showed her my bottle of some very mild prescription drug that really didn’t work–I don’t even recall what it was–she accused me of trying to sabotage her professional standing by having a summer job at the psychiatric hospital where she worked and handed me a check for several hundred dollars to buy me off from working there. I didn’t cash it.</p>
<p>Needless to say, I did not get the therapy I desperately needed. I was able to scrape by, despite the handicap of my mental state, due to my innate talent.</p>
<p>I have never in fact received the therapy that I really need. I am not doing what I ought to be doing, professionally, because of this. I am not living the life I should be. I have too often been able to mask my issues and perform up to a standard that looks good. When you are smart and talented enough to do this, society is happy to let you. Your inner pain in your own, and it is crippling.</p>
<p>I cannot urge you too much to help your D deal with this NOW and FULLY.</p>
<p>Reading through your original post again…I think you’ve given out far too much identifying information here that could make it very easy for someone to connect the dots. I’m concerned for your daughter’s privacy.</p>
<p>Thank you all so much for your solid advice! </p>
<p>D just came back from piano class and I had a long talk with her about everything - college, life, moving away from home. She seemed really happy when she came back because she apparently spent the majority of her class talking to her piano teacher about colleges, music programs and scholarships. Her piano teacher has really been a pillar for her throughout the past few years and gave her lots of great ideas about LACs to apply to with nurturing, friendly environments and excellent music/english departments where she can get scholarships; however, most of these are out-of-state. I will try to talk to her in the next few days about considering gap years, staying in California, and focusing on herself, but for the moment she seems really excited to work on her music and internships, and seeing her that happy after all her post-finals misery is wonderful.</p>
<p>I think the plan right now is to finally get her some medication (which we didn’t last year as the doctor told us it would make the depression worse - a dire mistake), let her focus on her music and what she loves to do, and let her know we are here for her no matter what. Will have to talk to the DW about that: she tends to be a little too blunt when it comes to talking about GPA (often comparing her to friends’ kids, yelling at her for wasting time, etc.)</p>
<p>The area we live in is certainly a very pressured place to live, and in retrospect, I might have chosen to live elsewhere. All we ever wanted was a good education for the kids, which they’ve no doubt had, but often times it’s too much. Five of D’s friends got 2400s, so she is certainly under a lot of peer pressure, if not familial pressure.</p>
<p>I agree - it is time to put love in front of everything else.</p>
<p>edit: Is there a lot of identifying information? Is there any way I can remove it?</p>
<p>Consolation, I don’t mean that strangers could figure out who she is but people who know her who happen to read here could easily identify her and that could be hugely stressful for her. It’s the work and extracurriculars, no need to be specific on any of that.</p>
<p>What kind of doctor tells you medication is going to make the depression worse? It’s true, ADs do little for mild depression, and you’re better off with therapy alone, but make it worse?</p>
<p>Fightingirishdad, after reading that last post, all I can say is you’re not there yet. Coming to terms with your child’s mental illness takes time. She will get better, but it isn’t fast. Medication takes weeks to become fully effective, and the first one may not be effective and you have to switch. Your plans for her future have to evolve and that’s not a speedy process. You can’t decide right now that she needs a gap year or small LAC or anything. You have to focus only on now. On treatment now. On school now. Not tomorrow.</p>
<p>After reading your last post, I can hear how much you care. </p>
<p>it is good that your daughter can see a future and can believe in the future. It means she has some hope, which is good.</p>
<p>In the meantime, get her treatment. Get a recommendation for a good psychaitrist from either your pediatrician or family doctor or from your local hospital. The doctor who knows your family best is the one to get the recommendation from. A lot of times a pediatrician can speed the process of getting an appt if you are clear you feel it is an emergency. (A friend’s suicide in an adolescent with a history of depression is generally enough of an emergency to most professionals)</p>
<p>At the very least you want to have her evaluated for meds by a medical doctor, which a therapist is not.</p>
<p>In the meantime, hang in there. I’m glad she has you on her side. It can really make all the difference.</p>
<p>I think none of us can diagnose the extent of what your D is going through. Good she is seeing a counselor and good that she came home from piano in a happy mood. </p>
<p>If she’s under 18, you may have the chance to learn from her (psychological) counselor where she stands. This could be something that will require time to unravel and mend- or could be something situational she will get through more easily. [I am not understating, just making the point that we readers don’t know.]</p>
<p>If her heart is set on a large campus, I can see where it could be a mistake to force her into an LAC. In many cases, it takes close listening to know whether she is running “from” or simply prefers the academic and social opportunities at a big place. Likewise, the gap decision needs to be one she is in agreement with.</p>
<p>The issue with some meds depends a great deal on the kid. Only a psychiatrist can properly prescribe and they have to monitor very closely to verify the dosage is proper, not too strong, nor too weak. There can be side effects, as well. There is not always a one-drug wonder or panacea. We have been through this monitoring and adjustment- and changes in meds. Best to start now for two reasons: some have a time period before they kick in and before any problems would be noticed. And, a younger person needs some of the self-awareness of how the med affects her, which only comes over some time, with the doc’s guidance. (So, in D’s case, eg, she could tell when hers wasn’t sufficient or when certain side effects were kicking in. In her case, small things like not sleeping or eating well. Not to worry; a good psychiatrist who clicks with your daughter is a gift.)</p>
<p>The grade dip will be problematic at most top schools. But USC and NYU just might bite for those test scores. USC offers an automatic discount for NMSF, but her grades might result in a Spring admit. NYU might like her as full pay. (Notre Dame is big on varsity athletes.) Also, look at Emory.</p>
<p>Often times, people will sugarcoat responses to such topics, so I really appreciate everyone’s honesty in their responses; a lot of it was exactly what I needed to hear, and somewhat of a wake-up call.</p>
<p>D spent most of yesterday (after finals) crying about how she wasn’t going to get into any college and how all her hard work was for nothing, so thank you also for all your advice in terms of the possible college options/taking a gap year. This one thread and all the advice has taken more of a weight off my shoulders than you can possibly believe, especially because this isn’t an easy topic to approach with just anyone.</p>
<p>Someone stated earlier that D might want to ‘run away’ to college as a parallel to running away from her problems, and I think that might be part of it. She always talked about going to college in NYC, and how everything would suddenly fall into place as soon as she left home. I think a lot of the battle will be trying to get that deep-rooted notion that college will fix everything out of her head.</p>
<p>I am not trying to be a pop psychologist, but I think that your daughter may be focusing so much on her grades/college because this is a concrete thing. When so much in her life feels nebulous and out of her control, she can put her focus on her grades and the problems that her lower grades present. My son, who had a very traumatic event in his life during high school, likened that time frame to swimming through honey. It is completely understandable why she couldn’t focus on her finals, but her grades are just the result of the underlying symptoms. She needs to diagnose and treat the cause. Otherwise, it would be like putting a butterfly closure on a gaping wound. I am very glad to hear that she is in therapy. From all he EC’s, it appears that she has very little down time. She might need some of this to help with her grief process. Music helped my son tremendously. Hopefully, it does the same for your daughter.</p>
<p>Your daughter sounds like a beautiful, talented young woman. My heart aches for her. No one that young should have to experience loss at such a deep level. I believe that once her emotional health is on an even keel, the rest will follow.</p>
<p>First, I agree that your daughter’s mental health should be your first priority, but I can definitely see wanting to think about her future and college choices. If a big part of her mental health is her success in school and she has always dreamed of going away to college, it may be a bigger hit to her mental health for you not to plan for it. Good for her that she’s in therapy; I add to the chorus of voices that it sometimes gets worse before it gets better, so be ready for the ride.</p>
<p>I am going to second (third? fourth?) the suggestion of looking at small LACs, especially if she already has mental health issues. I started my up-and-down battle with depression and anxiety in my junior year of college. I was at a small LAC (~2500 students) and the result was overwhelming. The community feels like a family, so I would have strangers who noticed I was down stop and chat with me for 10 minutes and recommend I go to counseling, even offering to walk me over right that moment. I had personal relationships with all my professors, who recommended a change in me and was able to talk to me personally and help me feel better. Our counseling center was small and intimate and I felt great talking to a counselor there, who was also an alumna of my college. It was just such a great, intimate, nurturing environment for a student with mental health issues; I felt like a person and not a number, and I was able to get help, and I got better.</p>
<p>Not to say that you can’t have support at a larger university - the large elite private I attend does have a system in place to support students with mental health issues or who understandably buckle under the tremendous amount of stress and pressure the student feel here. But it’s not the same.</p>
<p>Does your D do anything AT ALL not connected with getting in to college? Anything fun? Anything not competitive and not concerned with excelling and being the best/perfect? To me it seems like she needs a break from every waking minute counting towards something in the future and time to enjoy life.</p>
<p>I have not read all of the posts, but this is what happened in our house. One of my kids had a serious drop in grades and it took us over a year to have him evaluated for depression. (Yes–really stupid on our part.) Anyway, he wasn’t doing badly enough to repeat a grade at his public high school so we moved him to a local private and had him repeat his junior year. It worked out <em>very</em> well for him.</p>
<p>The only other thing I’d suggest is that the whole family stop talking about college. It’s the cause of way too much unnecessary stress in your house. (Repeat–unnecessary)</p>
<p>^Exactly. With this kind of kid, in this kind of situation, you just have to stop. Even kids with no challenges like your daughter’s can get incredibly stressed when they can’t get a break from the pressure. They have it all day at school, then they come home and hear it from their parents. You can’t be so invested in it. Please, take a deep breath and focus on the here and now. Can you plan a fun trip for spring break? One that does not involve college tours? You all seem as though you could benefit from spending time outside of your normal environment.</p>
<p>As mentioned above, depression reoccurs. I’m not sure that the pressure-cooker atmosphere of a tippy top school is right for her anyway. </p>
<p>I would want her in as much therapy as possible while she’s still under 18 and you can insist that she go. Once she’s 18, she can decide not to go.</p>
<p>so if she were to get all A’s from this point forward, as well as senior year</p>
<p>If she takes a gap year, then her senior year grades will come into play. </p>
<p>However, if she applies at the beginning of senior year, then she really won’t have senior grades to bump her GPA. And the UCs don’t use senior grades anyway to create the “UC GPA” which is used in the app process. They mostly use grades 10 and 11, which it sounds like are the bad semesters.</p>
<p>I would look into the better Calif privates like Santa Clara and Loyola Marymount. Smaller and more intimate.</p>