<p>Right now they need to quit calculating. They need to breathe, as a family, worry about their daughters health and how best to continue her current health, not weather the UCs are going to focus on her ‘bad semesters’. There are plenty of schools that would love to have her. In time they can look for the right ones for her. Right now college talk needs to be off the table for everyone’s sake.</p>
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This is not backing off, this is putting her on the rack. I get the sense that she is under a lot of pressure which is likely overwhelming her. You and mom are very invested in your own educational achievements (even your screen name “fightingirishdad” yells out your pride at the school you attended). D is very smart and accomplished so she has been hearing all her life from you, from teachers, from peers, from relatives - “You’re so smart. You’re like your parents. You should go to {insert high falutin school here}.” </p>
<p>As classmates start thinking about schools, she becomes the potential object of some envy - “yeah, you don’t have to worry, you’ll get accepted anywhere”. There is tremendous pressure to live up to the expectations of you, herself, and everyone else.<br>
The fact that she is even entertaining this drama, when rationally she knows that she is far outshining many of her classmates, is very telling. Hopefully you are not playing into her hands here.</p>
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<p>I’m wondering what the odds are of any one person having 5 friends make 2400 on the SAT. </p>
<p>Ds went to a private school with very high performing kids. The inevitable comparisons they made with their peers were not good for their self esteem, and neither of them knew 5 kids with 2400 scores. It’s only years later that both of them have accepted that despite not having perfect SAT scores, they are indeed intelligent with bright futures ahead of them. While we are happy with the education they received, there were times we really second guessed our decision to put them in that kind of environment.</p>
<p>I think the tough part is one has to be the adult and think like a kid, at the same time. The advice here is all good- but it covers a lot of ground. And OP hasn’t shared a diagnosis, may not even have one yet. </p>
<p>I agree some kids need to be kept close to home or close enough. And some need to have a smaller college or less competitive environment, where more people know them. But we don’t know enough to make this the one solution. Maybe one issue is, in fact, the limited variety, high competition and visibility in the current hs. Small colleges, like many high schools, can be claustrophobic for some. </p>
<p>And, imagine a bright kid whose parents suddenly take college discussions off the table. This is a bridge period and until OP knows more of what’s up, imo, it’s important to get her the attention she needs- and imo, to keep both ends of the bridge clearly (but moderately) in sight.</p>
<p>Some kids can respond to the goal of all A’s, moving forward, and others crumble at the pressure. For some kids, that effort would mask the underlying issues and for others the accomplishment can be a release and source of pride. We don’t know. Love her, get her the right professional, and let her know you are there, believe in her- and that stumbling is part of growing. At this point, it’s hard to second guess.</p>
<p>If the pro feels she is able, I’d continue the college exploration, not add to her pressure by suggesting this stumble is the end, so drastic that her boat is stopped. Just cautioning here that there is no easy one path until more is known. Best wishes.</p>
<p>This girl has been struggling with depression for years, and her good friend took her own life JUST THREE WEEKS AGO. If anything she needs grief counseling, not college counseling.</p>
<p>I agree with sylvan–expecting the rest of high school to be filled with challenging courses and A grades in each of them is putting her on the rack, not making her feel safe and protected and more sure of herself.</p>
<p>fightingirishdad, it’s clear you care deeply about your daughter, although by your own admission you are perhaps a bit too invested in the college outcome. But when I reread your posts I saw what I believe might be at the core of your daughter’s ongoing difficulties (notwithstanding her friend’s death):</p>
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<p>I am no expert, but I am beginning to think your daughter’s relationship with her controlling mother is a major factor here. Your daughter likely does not feel unconditional love from her mother, and all kids need that, in my opinion. Forgive me if I am speaking out of turn, but I think your wife needs much more of a reality check than you do. She is doing damage that may be irreparable to your daughter’s well-being as well as to their relationship going forward.</p>
<p>D does do a lot for fun - in fact, for her, music isn’t really for the colleges as much as for herself. Her participation in DECA is also fun for her, which may sound surprising, but the independence and freedom that comes with going on those trips is something she really loves.</p>
<p>Other than that, she likes graphic designing, skiing, going out with friends, reading, and the like.</p>
<p>I would like to add that many of the statements in my original post (especially the quote about senior grades) no longer apply, as I was primarily concerned at looking at a college for D as that was what she wanted so desperately. However, I now realize that jumping into a big college may not be the best way to proceed, and she should come first.</p>
<p>@juillet That’s fantastic! I’m glad the people at your LAC were so helpful and compassionate towards your situation. That would certainly be the prime environment for D; the only concern I’ve had with LACs is the heavy tuition. And I do agree with what you and lookingforward said about college being such a big focus for her and then having to stop vocalizing her thoughts about it. I’m going to have to experiment with what a good balance between positive college talk and not talking about it all is.</p>
<p>Most of D’s friends think any UC below UCLA is a failure. They’re all nice girls, imo, but the only colleges that ‘count’ to them are the big ones, so I can understand D’s desire to want to seem ‘worthy’ to them. She’s told me that sometimes she just prays she’ll get into a “good” college and then it’ll all have been worth it. The unfortunate fact is I only see her when she’s at home, and she spends six hours a day (and a lot of her free time) with her friends. </p>
<p>@sally I unfortunately agree. I stay away from any college/school topics whenever going out with D unless she brings it up, but DW brings it up constantly, comparing her with friend’s kids who are jetting off to Ivy’s and say that less than a 4.0 is mediocre. She says that she doesn’t care where D goes as long as she’s happy, but actions speak louder than words.</p>
<p>“he only concern I’ve had with LACs is the heavy tuition”</p>
<p>LAC do not have to mean only expensive, exclusive private schools. Keep in mind many states that have large flagship universities (i.e… Penn State) have many smaller state schools with lower tuition (bloomsbury, Lock Haven etc.).</p>
<p>fightingirishdad - You sound like a father that very much loves his daughter and wants what’s best for her. You have been gracious and open to others opinions even when they may not have been complimentary, and I give you an exceptional amount of credit for that. This parenting gig is hard, comes with no manual, and just when you think you’ve got the hang of it, the rules (needs of your child) change. What works with child A can be a total disaster with child B. We do the best we can with the information we have at the time, and have to be constantly willing to reassess an evolve both our methods and expectations. I really see those qualities in you. If for whatever reason you and your wife are not on the same page it is very important that you find a way to get there. If you can’t through discussions on your own, a family therapist might help. I’m not suggesting years of laying on a couch, but a few sessions together to help define a united goal in priorities and expectations for your daughter may be helpful. Perhaps her therapist could recommend someone. Parenting a child going through depression, weather situational, or long-term recurrent, can be very wearing on parents (and a marriage). It’s important to take care of yourself(s) as well.</p>
<p>fwiw: with the exception of UCSD, the UC’s are holistic and love to read essays from kids who have overcome adversity. That being said, I’d strongly argue that the sink-or-swim campus culture (at the top UC’s) is NOT the best place for someone who suffers from mental illness.</p>
<p>Can I just throw in that “mental illness,” a term used a few times on this thread is not our diagnosis to make- and carries a popular idea that it’s definite, drastic and disabling. Very IMO. VIMO. I went back over OP’s posts and don’t see the dau is disabled. She functions. She has friends and activities. Again, not understating. Clearly, she is suffering a whallop to ego, balance and maybe even thought processes. But, in this forum context, let’s not push to label and then constrain D to some limited options. We don’t know that. Sorry.</p>
<p>^I get your point, looking, but perhaps your definition is too confining. :)</p>
<p>There is nothing in the medical definition that says mental illness has to be “drastic and disabling.” It can easily be just one episode. </p>
<p>From our friends at wiki</p>
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<p>blueiguana is right. You HAVE to be on the same page with your wife and not let your daughter get caught in the middle. I am guessing she is feeling the tension not just from her mother’s unrelenting pressure, but also between the two of you as you seek to find common ground. I too give you a lot of credit for being so calm and gracious.</p>
<p>Your wife is going to RUIN her relationship with her daughter if she doesn’t get a grip, and your daughter may not respect you either if she allows her mother to dominate the situation. I have seen numerous families go through similar experiences, in which the parents’ high expectations became a source of major stress within the household for everyone, including siblings. And I could give you several examples of parents I know who were both highly educated at elite universities but whose kids did not even GO to college and are making what many would consider “defiant” choices (moving in with questionable boyfriends, settling for menial jobs, and so on). I also know kids who have broken off all communication with whatever parent they have had issues with the minute they turned 18 or left the house. This happened with the son of a good friend, but his problems were with his control-freak dad, not his mom. The young man graduated from high school last June but is now working at a snack shop and wondering what to do with his life. He has been SEVERELY let down by his father and has no intention of having an adult relationship with him. I can’t say I blame him, either.</p>
<p>She may need a break right now. And to talk about what is going on. I am sure that having a friend commit suicide would affect her. My daughter is really getting down about her grades and I have decided to remind her that while grades are important, they are not the end all be all. Perhaps the other girl committed suicide because she caved to the stress? Too often, when one child does what that other child did, other kids follow. </p>
<p>((((hugs))))))</p>
<p>BB- I don’t disagree and find that description nicely culturally aware. My comment was “popular idea” and based on the number of posters saying to limit the college dream, in one way or another. </p>
<p>For a kid in a tough academic environment, with peer pressure (academic and I’ll bet social,) maybe Mom-pressure, a recent past illness that deflated her, the recent loss of a friend, grade issues- all on top of normal teen issues…and we sit on the sidelines, only knowing what OP has revealed…I find it hard to say, well, she can’t look at big schools, she can’t go oos, etc. But, OP seems to like the idea of a gentler place- and I defer to him.</p>
<p>Is Mom “relentless?” Or are her ideas and standards simply a constant? IMO, there’s a line between merciless and pushing. I’ll skip the rest, for now.</p>
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<p>I would classify this behavior as “relentless” or “unrelenting.” And I don’t know ANY kids who thrive under this kind of pressure…let alone those who are already emotionally fragile.</p>
<p>looking, I would say DW is subliminally tough. For example, during an argument, she won’t say it to D’s face, but will loudly comment that D’s bad grades reflect on how lazy she is, etc. I know it really hurts D to hear this, and I try to protect her whenever possible, but DW is just around more than I am. D probably gets an earful everyday, and nothing I say seems to help. It’s very hard to talk about with DW, so I don’t really know how to approach this. She seems to blame D for a lot.</p>
<p>I’m not sure she entirely believes that D has an illness at all, and might think it’s simply an excuse for D to slack off. The entire family talks about grades constantly, and bad grades/college immediately lower their perception of you (in this case, D.)</p>
<p>I’m glad to hear there are plenty of LACs/smaller colleges that would be an option; I’ll look into those over the weekend.</p>
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<p>A good counselor WOULD know how to approach this. Your post has convinced me that you and DW would really benefit from counseling, i.e. an objective opinion on what’s going on and how to best help your daughter.</p>
<p>Do you know your daughter very well? What does she do with her spare time? Does she make good friends? The reason I’m asking is I know one of my D’s friends (junior) suddenly gets bad grades like low Bs, very rarely gets As. She used to be a wonderful students, got SAT scores like your daughters. The dropping of her grades are clearly caused by internet addition, or the amount of time she spends on internet. Her family doesn’t know that. They just thought their daughter suddenly became a bad student. It is possible that the internet addiction is caused by depression - she is lonely and depressed so internet gives her a way to relax herself; or the depressed is reinforced by the addition - because apparently she’s been making not-too-good friends (who talk about self harm together, etc.) on internet. </p>
<p>What I’m saying is make sure you really know your daughter - how she spends her spare time tells a lot about her.</p>
<p>I think I know my daughter fairly well, in terms of what caused her depression (thus the dropping grades) and now, with the recent death of her friend. </p>
<p>In retrospect, we were probably a bit harsh on her, and I’m hoping the damage isn’t irreversible. Many of my close friends/co-workers had kids going to Stanford, Pomona, Oxford, UCB, etc., and I knew D was very capable. She was a stellar student until her sophomore year, and although she procrastinated, it didn’t look like she was under pressure/stress, or that it was affecting her negatively. In the past, we would get angry at her for getting Bs and Cs, because we knew she was better than that, and started her in SAT prep quite early. We just wanted the best for her, and followed what the people around us were doing - a mistake, no doubt,</p>
<p>She does do some graphic design on the web, but as far as I can see, all she really does in her free time is fairly harmless. Her friends are all nice, fun, motivated kids; it’s just the issues with a few of the “over-achieving” ones and how that pressure affects D.</p>
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That’s not subliminal, dear, that’s verbal abuse. I know from experience. I second that you need to drag W to counseling and insist that she cannot treat your D (or yourself, or any other children you have) in this way. You can’t allow that type of thing to continue. Period.</p>