@docchicos “I guess all those Mormons are unsuccessful (just to bring up one example to the contrary)?”
There are obviously many very successful Mormons, but in terms of education, in my experience the over-represented religions among elite white, non-Hispanic students are Jewish, atheist/agnostic, and Catholic.
I worked with a guy who had graduated from one of the dry campus Christian colleges and he drank seven nights a week. My D goes to a huge party school and she does not drink or go to parties. Her social skills are very good in a nerdy sort of way. Last year she lived in an Honors dorm and, even though there was plenty of weekend drinking, it was much better behaved than her freshman dorm.
Social IQ and relationship skills are highly valuable life skills, but are not connected to consumption of alcohol or drugs. Mitt Romney and Donald Trump, for example, are two highly successful guys who are world-class schmoozers. Neither one drinks.
There are parties at all schools. Some kids party, some don’t. It’s our job to educate them and teach them how to stay safe.
I am having a hard time understanding how partying has a positive influence on one’s success, and how a lack of partying will negatively impact success. Good communication skills and the ability to develop relationships and contacts comes in handy… But partying skills?
Most adults don’t buy it.
The ability to choose alcohol wisely (knowing wines, cocktails, aperitifs, and brandies) and not making a fool of yourself after a glass also helps in careers, but neither is learned at an undergraduate party.
@twogirls That’s where good communication skills come from. Everyone I know with good social skills goes out every weekend. That doesn’t necessarily mean being on the lawn of some fraternity house drinking red solo cups of vodka and hooking up with girls. It means going out to house parties, going to the bar and getting a beer with friends, having a good time, etc.
Anyone who doesn’t do that kind of stuff is probably weird and has poor social skills. And going back to the original point of OP’s post, I think this kind of behavior should be encouraged in moderation. I don’t necessarily think a “party school” is a problem at all if your child can handle himself. It’s probably better than a school where no one does anything.
@garvey, the real issue isn’t whether your kid is a partier, but whether he/she is comfortable at a school where partying dominates the culture. You don’t have to party, of course, but if that is the main way people have fun, this may not be the best choice for a non-partier.
Indeed. While one can build up a tolerance and learn how to deal with the effects of alcohol for a bit, a large part of it is genetic.
Some people like some of the hardcore party/beer double majors…including some in frats or not can’t handle more than half a can of bud light without going onto the floor or vomiting up a storm. Others can knock back several shots of high proof hard liquor and a few six packs of 16 proof IPA beers without skipping a beat.
And even in a family populated mostly with the latter, sometimes that trait skips some members as it did with one friend whose parents/siblings rib him at times for being unable to even handle half a can of bud light even after a full hearty meal.
Personally, I never saw the point in regarding alcoholic consumption as an asset in the workplace…and see many issues with it not only due to some folks not being able to handle themselves even decades after their 20s…but also the fact this expectation in some corners of our society is problematic for many folks who have issues with drinking for health and/or religious reasons*.
Incidentally, the US throughout its history has swung from one extreme side of the pendulum to the other on perceiving alcoholic consumption as a positive or a negative.
For instance, in Colonial and early Republic periods, people…including children drank far more than we do now adays…and did it much more often each day(ale in the morning, lunch, afternoon breaks at work, dinner, etc).
There was a great reaction against this not too long afterwards due to a mix of religious revivals, increasing concern over negative effects of excess alcohol consumption on social/public order, anti-immigration prejudice against groups(Irish and German immigrants) stereotyped as heavy drinkers despite the abject hypocrisy from the supposedly more virtuous “real Americans”(WASPs), etc. In fact, heavy drinking was widely used as a cudgel by WASP elites against Irish and German immigrants in the 19th and 20th centuries to “prove” how “inferior” they were to the more “virtuous” WASP elites.
And that reaction built up a movement over the latter 19th and early 20th century to the point it successfully lobbied the congress/senate and president to pass an amendment BANNING SALE, CONSUMPTION OR POSSESSION OF ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES* ushering in the Prohibition period which lasted nearly 15 years before it was repealed.
^well, the stuff that was drunk all day long was not very good nor very strong, and it was mostly because water was improper for consumption. People often didn’t know why but knew that drinking the water made them sick, when drinking the wine or ale was okay.
Good history of prohibition: https://www.amazon.com/Last-Call-Rise-Fall-Prohibition/dp/074327704X
Strong can be relative depending on the individual’s tolerance. And social problems due to the effects of alcohol in the early Republic period was bad enough that several towns* banned the sale or possession of it within town limits as a result along with many movements created to strongly discourage or even call for the complete banning of alcohol altogether.
Don’t assume that “artistic depiction” wasn’t laden with propaganda though. Some things never change. I love the portrayal in this advert that ran during the recent election season in MA. Exaggeration much?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oycBIQ_aT78
Not every student (including social ones) wants to get wasted. Some do not use alcohol or other recreational drugs at all. Considering that observant LDS members can be successful in their careers, it is not the case that refusing to use alcohol and other recreational drugs prevents one from doing so.
I went to a very small LAC in an isolated dull town many years ago.
Most people went to parties on the weekends and got drunk. Of course, there were people who did not go, but it just seemed harder to find a group of people or a fun activity that did not involve a lot of drinking or drugs. This was the kind of place where if you worked during the school year, it was on campus, because there was next to nothing going on in town.
I don’t remember this LAC as having a party school reputation, but boy, there was a lot of partying, perhaps out of boredom? I don’t know.
So, even though both of my kids go to large public flagships where there is certainly a TON of partying, I’m comforted there are also lots of other things to do, both on and off campus, and many different social groups.
@carolinahbrahh wait how old are you? Some of your posts sound like you’re still in college and others make it sound like you work for a law firm. I don’t know many grown adults that call themselves “brahh” or are considered weird for not going out to house parties every weekend so what you’re saying doesn’t really add up.
I’m also not sure how being in a frat is indicative of success…frats are comprised of rich white kids, so is the government and big businesses.
You’re confounding socializing with partying/going-out. One is a skill, one isn’t…
While the temperance movement did exaggerate to an extent, there were many documented cases of crime and social problems due to the greater use of alcohol in the early Republic period. Cases severe enough to prompt serious concern, social commentary, and the creation of many temperance movements.
The last of which would eventually prompt a swing of the pendulum to the extreme of prohibition which turns out to have also been a failure.
Also, one grad student friend who studies US social history in the period and has a side interest in the history of alcohol use in that area of history and an amateur brewer has mentioned that due to the effects of prohibition, the level of alcoholic content of most US mass market beers is lower than what was available and commonly consumed by the drinking public before prohibition.
This was one of the factors behind the rise of craft beers and IPA beers with higher alcoholic content in the last few decades.
@TheAtlantic They’re the same skillset. Merry christmas
Indeed. In fact, most people I know find someone who is still attending house parties every weekend after the age of ~25 or so hasn’t outgrown their undergrad/teen years.
Most friends in their mid-20’s and up who still partake in such parties found it was wise to keep that bit about their lives secret in their respective corporate workplaces to avoid being regarded as “immature” or a “lightweight”.
Ironically, I actually attended more such parties after college and still do to an extent(more like once a month or so), but it’s something that’s no different a leisure activity than going to a museum, reading a good book, karaoking rock songs in a bar in front of unwary patrons, working on a foil modeling project, or sleeping. It’s also something I do my best to avoid letting my clients know about unless they’re longtime close friends.
I am also wondering how old @carolinahbrahh is…
Think of the schools that are often considered ‘big party schools’ - Cal, Wisconsin, Michigan, Colorado, Florida, FSU, UMass.
Any one think these are not serious schools?