<p>I would think a young man accepted at Yale this year would have other full merit options beyond USD, which I think is a fine school, btw. I’m just surprised that he doesn’t have several other big $ offers to consider.</p>
<p>I think he should go spend some time on both campuses and then go to the one he thinks he’ll be happy at and that will help him along in the direction of his dreams. Yale is “affordable” for his family in that they can manage it. If they can’t get past the bitterness over putting that much investment in their kid’s education then they should just be super frank right now about it. No shame in that. </p>
<p>But, honestly, to try to figure out which school would be better for their son strictly in terms of academics, opportunity and enrichment? If they are asking that then their hearts just aren’t into the financial sacrifice. And that’s okay. There is certainly a strong argument to be made that the Yale experience is just not worth financial duress to the family. There is no argument to be made that Yale is equivalent or below the USD experience.</p>
<p>Yes, I’m aware. So? Is it a private school that has a nationwide reputation, or is it a private school that mostly attracts students from Southern California? Its rating is somewhere in the #90’s in USNWR, IIRC. I don’t know many people who send their kids out of state to schools at that rating tier level.</p>
<p>I don’t think anyone is arguing that the overall educational quality of USD is as high as that of Yale. It isn’t. On the other hand, there is no evidence that the student of the same quality who goes to Yale “does any better” in the long run than one who goes elsewhere (and at least one well-reviewed study that suggests that, unless low-income, on average s/he doesn’t.) Statistically, there are no clear differences between students in the USD Honors program than those at Yale (other than they have lower family incomes - which suggests that, corrected for that, they may be STRONGER than the average Yale student - and they are more likely to be Catholic.) It is likely that there are fewer premeds at USD than at Yale, but that the number of Yale students going to med school has dropped precipitously over the past three decades. (I won’t even go into med.school admissions rates, because they are meaningless without knowing about the weed-out. In any case, we have no idea of the med. school admissions rate from the USD Honors program, which is the only relevant metric.)</p>
<p>And, yes, if you have the bread, send him to Yale. But don’t feel too awful if you don’t. The potential of $120k for med school may have him being forever thankful to you as a result.</p>
<p>I looked at your Yale info. We don’t know how many biochem majors from there did either. (But your point is taken - USD is not a major med. school feeder - but we don’t know about the success of students in the Honors Program, who are statistically the equivalent of Yalies. There are maybe 40-50 Honors program grads per year from USD - how many Yale graduates are there per year? If even 5% of the Honors Program grads go pre-med (I think it’s under 3% at Yale?), we are talking 2-3 a year. Anyway, I would like to know more about the “weed-out” rate, the number of Yale students who enter as pre-meds, and don’t get there - and might have, had they gone to a second-tier state u.)</p>
<p>Just curious, mini, based on what you’ve said on this thread would you agree that home schooling for college would work as well as, or better than, Yale for any student who is not low-income?</p>
<p>I think you are assuming way too much when you say that the students in the Honors Program at USD are “statistically the equivalent” of Yale students. That may possibly be true with respect to their SAT scores, but we don’t really know how they compare in terms of rigor of high school curriculum, and we certainly don’t know how they compare in other ways that are significant. And as best as I can determine, they would be taking their pre-med classes with non-Honors Program students. It certainly seems to me that we have enough information–more than enough–to show that if the primary goal is to gain acceptance to a good medical school, and to be well prepared before doing so, it probably makes a lot more sense to go to Yale than to USD. Yes, yes, there may be some unique student for whom the reverse might be the case, but that’s pretty unlikely.</p>
<p>The evidence is that many premeds from Yale have gotten into to top medical schools recently. That list is for the previous two years. USD’s list–which is for med school and pharmacy school–is not too impressive. Of course, that’s just for the Biochem major. I didn’t find any similar info for the Biology major–maybe somebody else can find it. Also, the USD FAQ doesn’t say what percentage of its premeds get into med school–it just says that almost all do if they have good grades, good MCATs, good recs, etc. Well, yeah.</p>
<p>USD is probably a fine school–it has smart students, and the Honors Program may be great for a lot of people. But I can’t see it as a strategy for getting into medical school. It might be that it could be a better strategy for *affording *medical school, but we don’t know enough about the OP’s finances to really know that.</p>
<p>Yale claims that its recent rate of medical school acceptance for its premeds has been 92%. It also says that the rate is the same no matter what major they are taking. See <a href=“http://www.mbb.yale.edu/ugrad/reqts/grad.html[/url]”>http://www.mbb.yale.edu/ugrad/reqts/grad.html</a>. Of course, as mini points out, this probably doesn’t include people who started out as premeds but didn’t apply to med school.</p>
<p>Well, we do know they will have to borrow money to send the kid to Yale, and more than 5,000 per year.</p>
<p>I think what the OP has to decide is, once the son takes out staffords, if they are willing to borrow the rest to send son to Yale. Stafford loan amounts seem reasonable, imho, for a Yale grad, if excessive for some schools, imho.</p>
<p>If the son isn’t willing to take out the staffords, then there is the answer…USD. If the son is willing, and they are willing, FOR THE UNDERGRAD DEGREE, then it is a solid investment. But, imho, given the fact that college students change majors an average of four times while in undergrad, basing the decsion on being pre-med seems pre-mature. YMMV</p>
<p>“Just curious, mini, based on what you’ve said on this thread would you agree that home schooling for college would work as well as, or better than, Yale for any student who is not low-income?”</p>
<p>No. (with 1099 caveats - beginning with what one means by “homeschooling”. Edward Gibbon dropped out of Oxford, having considered it the most useless experience of his life, and then spent the next five years “homeschooling”, but he was never home, and he was Edward Gibbon!)</p>
<p>(Comparing the med school record of 1,500 Yale grads per year, give or take, with the 40-50 USD Honors Program grads, only 2-3 of whom are likely to be med school applicant,s really isn’t worth our time or energy.)</p>
<p>“I think you are assuming way too much when you say that the students in the Honors Program at USD are “statistically the equivalent” of Yale students. That may possibly be true with respect to their SAT scores, but we don’t really know how they compare in terms of rigor of high school curriculum, and we certainly don’t know how they compare in other ways that are significant.”</p>
<p>That’s absolutely true. To be frank, I assume that, based on statistical evidence that $100,000 in family income (under $200k) is likely worth between 100-150 SAT points (math and CR), I think it likely that the average USD Honors Program student is BETTER than the average Yale student. But I didn’t want to go there.</p>
<p>UWashington is the best med school for primary care docs in the country (including Yale and Harvard) - and if he goes to USD, he’ll be able to afford to go into primary care. LOL!</p>
<p>Let’s not forget that in this conversation, if it is to be at all relevant to the OP, we need to be talking about a Yale acceptee who goes to USD and how he might fare in the med school app process. Not an average USD pre-med. </p>
<p>I specifically mentioned that undergraduate students from elite schools do have a leg up in admissions to what I called the “usual med school suspects”. That could also have been phrased “Top or Elite med schools”. It’s readily apparent when you look at the class make-up of the Top med schools. At my kid’s school there are a dearth of state school or LAC kids. Mostly they are from private, well-known research uni’s. I believe you will find that will remain fairly consistent at the Top Private Med Schools. </p>
<p>I did not say anything about a Yale UG student being at a disadvantage in med school admissions. Far from it. What I said was, IMO, if your motivation to attend Yale (at $120K more) is a medical school admission, save your money. If you have the groceries to get into Yale UG, you can get to med school from literally hundreds of schools. </p>
<p>Now, something I missed the first time through is the (probably correct) speculation that the OP’s son may be from California. California is the absolute worst state to be from as a pre-med. And it’s not really close. There are simply too many high-stats applicants for the available seats. IMO, that also argues in favor of Yale and against USD. It would be much closer if it was UCB or UCLA or or even USC.</p>
<p>State residency is a huge factor in med school admissions.</p>
<p>Though the pre-med major has a really high attrition rate, just in general, let’s pretend for the sake of argument, that this student is one of the small percentage who will see it through all the way through the med school application process:</p>
<p>Why would this student be better served by goingt to Yale?</p>