yet another BS/MD program question

Pre-Med & Medical School Multiple Degree Programs
1

<p>hey, i don't see too many of my brown females asking about these programs so i'm gonna give it a shot. granted i look incredibly weak in the company of some of these guys, but could anyone give me any feedback on what my chances would be for getting into a 7 or 8 year program (literally any one will do)?</p>

<p>SATI: 730V 720M
SATII: 700 writing, 700 Math IIc, 720 Bio
GPA: 3.84/4.0
rank:10/675
Courses: all honors and APs for 9-12
Senior year: AP government and politics, AP Calculus BC, AP Italian 5, AP Economics, AP literature, AP physics B, advanced debate 4, health, and gym.</p>

<p>EC:
-Debate: 9-12. various awards.
-Junior Honor Society/Honor Society: 9, 11,12. Treasurer.
-Italian Honor Society:10-12. Treasurer.
-Italian Club:10-12. President.
-Key Club:10-12. President for 2 years.
-Varsity Tennis: 9-12. Counties Champ and scholar athlete.
-Varsity Lacrosse: 10-12. starter and scholar athelete
-Physics Engineering Science and Tech Club: 11,12. Vice President.
-Blood Drive Team:12. Packaging.
-Acapella Chorus, Girls Chorus, and New York State Soloists Music Association (NYSSMA): 9, 11. best vocalist award.
-Volunteer at local hospital-50 hours in pharmacy.
-Research Volunteer at Cornell Medical Center. 210 hours.
-Big Brothers Big Sisters:11, 12. chair organizer/big sister.
-Columbia University Summer Program in Genetics and Molecular Biology
-National Student Leadership Conference in International Diplomacy
-National Youth Leadership Forum in Medicine
-Peer Tutoring:11,12. math and bio.
-Relay for life:9-12. ran booths, walked, got pledges. etc.
-gold medal in national latin exam
-math award.</p>

<p>ok, so that's my list. any feed back would be awesome. thanks.</p>

2

<p>if your a senoir, then the key question is where have you applied?...if you haven't applied yet then, well in a bad position.</p>

3

<p>ur numbers are on the low side......but ur ec's are pretty....... yea, where did u apply?</p>

4

<p>i applied to RPI, Drexel, BU, UConn, and a couple of others. but RPI and BU are my top choices.</p>

5

<p>you are a little on the lower end, but definitely in contention. With some good essays you can get an interview which will determine your acceptance!</p>

6

<p>you think your stats are low? have you seen my post yet? It will make you feel a lot better......</p>

7

<p>I dont understand at all! Why go to a second tier med and second tier undergrad! These programs make no sense. Go to a school you like with a good rep (Emory, WUSTL, etc) I am sure you will get a good enough GPA/ MCAT to end up at a better med school than Drexel or UConn! These programs are basically a trick to seduce top students who otherwise would end up at a better med school and a better undergrad.</p>

8

<p>..........</p>

9

<p>slipper brings up a good point...what do the rest of u think?</p>

<p>its true...wouldnt a degree from a great med school look better than just a mediocre one? u do save a year, sometimes two, but sometimes none...hmmm</p>

<p>i'm sure the people that get accepted into these programs will do very well on the mcats anyway...</p>

<p>i applied to some programs, some ivies, and some basic colleges to keep my options open...what would u do if u got into an ivy and only an OK accelerated program?</p>

10

<p>In most programs, you do have the option of applying out and going to a more presitigious med school, if you choose to. So that's something to consider.</p>

11

<p>hey slipper.....i assume then that you know what medical school your family doctor or any other specialists you have gone to attended, then? as long as ur a committed doctor, does it matter what med school you attended? anyways, getting into medical school is not as easy as you make it out to be.....check out the stats (i don't have them off the top of my head)</p>

12

<p>I agree with you, but I do know some things 1) going to a top school gets you top residencies. So if you are content living an hour from a city working in a suburban hospital you are right, but if you want to be the head of trauma at New York Presbyterian or any other top hospital you are going to need a highly ranked degree. My father is an example, until he got a fellowship position at Baylor he was a MD from Wright State, and all he could find were podunk country town positions. The Baylor degree is what made it possible for him to get a top job (now he is the head of his dept at a major hospital). So sure, doctors are doctors. But higher ranked places open more doors.</p>

<p>2) Most of the people who can get into these programs are pretty able people. Sure, med school is difficult, but not as difficult as people think. Especially for high acheivers like the people here.</p>

<p>3) I personally know so many people at my Ivy who have gone to better schools than the accelerated programs. My friends with 3.2s end up at places like these, but my friends with 3.5+ are all at top 50 places, people with 3.7+ are all at top 20. My point is if you are confident in your abilities why sell yourself short just so you can shave a year? </p>

<p>4) I know SO many people who have gone this route (Indians like me). And people who could have gone anywhere. Some opt out, but they almost always regret having gone to East Tennessee or Drexel or wherever, when their friends went to better undergrads, had a better experience in terms of academic quality and quality of life, and THEN ended up at better med schools.</p>

<p>Your choice, shoot for plan A or shoot yourself in the foot always planning plan B?</p>

13

<p>In some ways, i think your father proves papucutta's point - MD from wright state, now head of dept at major hospital. It didn't matter where he went to med school, it all worked out.</p>

14

<p>i think the reason most of us program-hopefuls are so passionate about the ba-bs/md route is the guaranteed/conditional acceptance to medical school stipulation........i can say that saving one or two years is not my main motivation for doing all those applications.......it's all about the safety that a program can offer you.......</p>

15

<p>I see the reasoning for that for marginal candidates, but for top students (like cyan) it doesnt seem to make a lot of sense.</p>

16

<p>well as you've noticed, a lot of top students are going the program route. as a traditional pre-med, you're going to be put through motions and are going to have to jump through hoops, you know (similar to what program-hopefuls are doing in high school...)? in college, though, program-hopefuls are looking forward to a chance to "explore..." i have to be careful, but i can say that there's more to becoming a successful physician than biology...you have to develop a thorough understanding of what it means to be human in order to treat a patient, and i think that a liberal arts education gives you that (i.e. i'm talking about BA/md programs--not BS/md).....i dunno, there's the whole benefit of the liberal arts in addition to the guaranteed acceptance (which is nice too..lol).</p>

17

<p>what hs do u go to cyan to be able to take all APs from 9-12?
at my school, we r offered 1 ap soph yr (world hist) and then the number one student has taken a total of 6 before sr yr (i took 5 bc ap spanish didnt fit in my schedule damn public schools and budget cuts)</p>

18

<p>Yeah papucatta I agree with the importance of a liberal arts education, but you make a critical mistake, college admissions officers LIKE liberal arts majors. Pre-med is just filling requirements, and research is a plus, but many of my most successful friends (at Harvard, Penn, WUSTL, Cornell, Yale, Northwestern med) have all been liberal arts majors. My point is go to a good school, major in something you like and have an amazing experience with other intellectual people, then go to a med school better than any of these programs.</p>

19

<p>"So if you are content living an hour from a city working in a suburban hospital you are right, but if you want to be the head of trauma at New York Presbyterian or any other top hospital you are going to need a highly ranked degree."</p>

<p>There are sick people at "lower ranked hospitals" also. They also need quality medical care and quality doctors. I don't think that doctors in such hospitals should have (or receive) any less respect than your New York example.</p>

<p>I turned down Wash U, Northwestern, and Vanderbilt to do UMKC Med because being a physician is not something that I am doing to gain recognition or the build an academic aura around myself. I want to be a physician to heal... Getting my MD in a challenging environment that promotes group learning (not fierce competition) was my goal. Plus <em>gasp</em> there are plenty of people here that have1470s, 4.2 GPAs and still can't handle the heat. BS/MDs do seem more stable, but I know here at least 20% of the class drops out. When applying for residencies, hospitals know how hard it is to go through such a program and there are no shortage of people in combined programs getting into top residencies... if that is your goal. </p>

<p>Quite frankly, as long as I am a doctor, being of service to others an an area that is safe for my family, I will be satisfied. I am sure many other students agree with me on this.</p>

<p>You should check the AAMC website for some interesting articles, one of which includes how medical school rankings are starting to lose their weight (I think it is also worth noting that AAMC also refuses to rank med scools for reasons similar to those in this publication):</p>

<p>"A Critique of the U.S. News & World Report Rankings
William C. McGaghie, PhD and Jason A. Thompson</p>

<p>Dr. McGaghie is professor of medical education and professor of preventive medicine, Northwestern University Medical School, Chicago, Illinois. Mr. Thompson is a statistical programmer analyst, Behavioral Medicine Research Group, Department of Psychology, University of Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.</p>

<p>Rankings of American medical schools published annually by the news magazine U.S. News & World Report are widely used to judge the quality of the schools and their programs. The authors describe and then critique the rankings on methodologic and conceptual grounds, arguing that the annual U.S. News medical school evaluation falls short in both areas. Three categories of program quality indicators different from those used by U.S. News are presented as alternative ways to judge medical schools. The authors conclude that the annual U.S. News & World Report rankings of American medical schools are ill-conceived; are unscientific; are conducted poorly; ignore medical school accreditation; judge medical school quality from a narrow, elitist perspective; and do not consider social and professional outcomes in program quality calculations. The medical school rankings have no practical value and fail to meet standards of journalistic ethics."</p>

<p>I'm sorry if I am being blunt again... it's just that discussions like this get very emotional for me... I could be jumping to conclusions, but from what I have read on certain forums it just seems like premeds are forgetting the real picture.</p>

<p>I suppose if it will make you so happy to go to a "Top Tier School" then do it... maybe people who are concerned about rankings will have that "void" in their life for a while. But there are people like me where things like that just don't matter in the long run. :)</p>

20

<p>If your goal is to just be a doctor, sure anything will do. And yes, people is Valparaiso, Indiana or Concord, NH get sick too. But if you want the option of being at a top hospital or being a chief of staff going to a better school will surely help.</p>

<p>Also, forgetting all that. There is alot more to life than just arriving at your goal. Pursuing your passions at a top school is one of the greatest experiences of life. You ae surrounded by intellectual students, an amazing community and college experience. And you get into as good or better of a med school to boot. For those on the borderline, sure an accelerated program is a much easier ticket. But to top acheivers, I think they will be much more rewarded in the long run with the traditional route.</p>