<p>More great news Berurah! Yale, who? Congrats to the offspring.</p>
<p>Berurah: Add some more congratulations to the pile. Penn is a great school - and so are Duke and JHU. Roy Vagelos, a Penn graduate and former CEO of Dow Chemical, I believe, has supported the school and whether this program was set up by him or was named in his honor, it's no doubt an excellent one. Note, though, that it's not only selective in advance, but selecting during its operation - only half those admitted tend to stick with it long enough to reap the financial rewards. Even being offered a spot is a couple of feathers in the cap, and useful in a resume.</p>
<p>The Penn campus is a good center-city campus, and close to downtown Philadelphia. Penn is, and has been for years, a rah-rah school, with its football and basketball teams often Ivy League champions and its basketball team a surprise Final Four contender some 25 years ago. Its track team is also on the upsurge, and it participates in a full range of mens' and womens' sports</p>
<p>But look carefully at the pressure-cooker atmosphere and financial aspects of the program, and at what may occur if your S decides for any reason that he would prefer to be in a different program.</p>
<p>In short, in a flash of time, you and your S now have three great opportunitites to choose from. Have a great trip.</p>
<p>Berurah. Your first post on your son's EA rejection was what got me into this community. I feel I know your backyard, blue basketball pole and all. Congratulations to your son. Congratulations to you. Congratulations to all his nice younger siblings. Just promise me you will share a little of your perspective and warmth when I post my "What should we do post" for D. I'm mulling it over now.</p>
<p>Again, so many congratulations.</p>
<p>If you are in Philly the night of April 23rd, come to my d.'s concert, and meet us, and Momsdream and Achat - and see the Liberty Bell (it is two blocks away.)</p>
<p>Well, when will the West Coast reunion occur? Or, anyone else going to the Princeton Admit Days? I'm just going to be sitting in a hotel room there, April 14-15....</p>
<p>Hi Berurah,</p>
<p>I can gladly share with you some impressions of Penn, and my heartfelt congrats to your son in this fantastic opportunity. My DD is at Penn in the humanitites working toward a doctorate, but I have had lots of contact with the medical community there through the UPenn Hospital as she spent three tough weeks there at the end of last year. Her room was on the 14th floor of the hospital and overlooked the Penn campus. When her BF (now fiance) came to visit her, I spent a lot of time wandering around the campus. The days I was there were the first beautiful days of Spring. I was awestruck by the beauty and sophistication of a lot of the students. A lot of them were revelling in the older part of the campus (which though large, feels compact.) I knew already that she would be attending, so I had my mother's eyes peeled as I hung out. There is wonderful convenience in the area around the campus, with lots of restaurants, coffee shops, and the bookstore is a wonderful Barnes and Nobles. There is a seedy CVS where I met the ONLY rude person the whole time I was there (three weeks) and I think she was just having a bad day. The people as a whole were fabulous. I was a little concerned by the number of kids commununicating not with eachother as they walked around the campus, but with their cellphones. </p>
<p>We were able to see right down into an area of the older residential section for undergraduates, and sensed that it was a close community. That was also something I sensed in the folks who were in training at the UPenn hospital. They were incredibly professional, and US News ranks that hospital very high on its list. I do not know how much, if at all, the undergrads are in contact with the Hospital folks, maybe not at all, but I was impressed by everything I saw.</p>
<p>My DD is a little bit of a scaredy cat about personal safety, and lives a bit off campus. she walks almost everywhere, but takes public transpo to get anywhere in Philly and sometimes takes the bus to class. She loves the city, and she is a small town girl originally.</p>
<p>Anyway, don't know if these free-floating associations will help, but I am at peace with her being there and know she is getting one excellent education in her grad program.</p>
<p>Blessings on you as you decide. I am reminded again as our kids make these tough decisions of Barry Schwartz's book on The Paradox of Choice. So many choices can lead to real angst! Best wishes!</p>
<p>** I am also a little uncomfortable with the idea of starting with a very select group of 20 incredible students with the expectation that half of them will drop out of the program and only 5 will get tuition waivers. Isn't that a setup for a pressure cooker cut-throat competitive environment? Sounds more like a script for a reality TV show!**</p>
<p>Exactly my thoughts! I don't think it's a good idea to ADD Penn to your list of considerations when your S only has a 50% chance of success in the program. If he would have attended Penn anyway, and this came up...great. But, I wouldn't add it to the list because of such a risky program (risky in so many ways). What if he drops out or is asked to leave the program? Will he still enjoy Penn? Will you be able to afford it full-fare? </p>
<p>I also suggest that you visit Penn. As others have said, it is urban. Yes, there is a gothic college feels to the buildings on campus. And there is plenty of green. But, It's all surrounded by a large city (it is Philadelphia, the 5th largest city, after all - it always amazes me when people are surprised about the buildings and stores). </p>
<p>The students also seem quite a bit more trendy than at most other schools we visited - well dressed in designer slacks and heels (girls), sophisticated, monied. I saw guys who looked like they stepped right out of the Polo ads - right down to the suntanned skin and perfectly cut blond hair. I think this part will be a surprise for my son, but he claims to be ready for a change whenever I mention this element of Penn. The clothing stores that surround the school are a testament to the sophisticated element (I don't think the west phila residents are keeping that Talbots in business).</p>
<p>I think the OP might have encountered lots of foot/bike traffic on Locust Walk. It's a busy place as it is the heart of campus. There is an energy there that is unmistakable. People will either love that or hate it. Once you enter the quad, the feeling is much more serene with lots of green, kids lounging around, frisbee playing, etc. So, there are pockets of busy, bustling city and pockets of greenery and quiet. </p>
<p>Again, I wouldn't give too much credit to that program as it seems like a longshot to finish. I'm sure your son is extremely talented.....but so are the 50% of kids who don't finish each year.</p>
<p>Roby~Thanks for the congrats and your impressions of Penn! So, it is on your son's list too??!! What is he leaning toward at the moment? Through the feedback on this thread and some very helpful information provided through email, we are beginning to put this option on the back burner for now. Too much uncertainty for my liking! And yet, we are still honored by the invitation! At any rate, let me know what your son's thoughts are on his choice...I can't wait to hear!!</p>
<p>overanxious mother~You are one of the <em>BEST</em> cheerleaders around girl!! Thank you SO much!! I think that we may be in the position to have to go with the "guaranteed" at the moment. I realize that both schools are phenomenal for the pre-med student, but given the money difference, we are leaning toward JHU at the moment. Either way, he gets a big city!! :)</p>
<p>searchingavalon~Awwwwww, sweetie, I would be EVER so honored to share my son with you <em>IF</em> you share your beautiful daughter with me!! I love having extra kids, even if they can only be cyberkids! <em>sniff</em> The JHU admissions office was a bust for the funding for a flight...they apparently don't budget for that, but I've tried twice now. :( We still like them bunches though! <em>LOL</em></p>
<p>achat~I so wish I could meet you!! If we do take a trip up there (unlikely now that we've mostly eliminated this possibility), I would love to come and give you a big HUG!!</p>
<p>simba~Hey! You and I need to take that color class together! <em>lol</em> Thanks for the congrats, and please keep me posted on your son's decision!</p>
<p>MotherOfTwo~Honestly, I think your thoughts on the program were right on the money. Thanks for taking the time to relay so much information. It has helped a TON! love ya!</p>
<p>marite~Duke has all of our financial stuff now, so I plan to contact them on Monday. It's worth a try to let them know of the honors he has received from JHU and UPenn! All I can say is, this IS a tough choice! Thanks for all the info. and support!</p>
<p>~berurah</p>
<p>Berurah, in case you are interested in chatting with some other students/parents who have been offered the Hodson scholarship at JHU, here is a new thread.</p>
<p>3boysnjmom~Thank you so very much for taking such an interest in my son's story. We live in a small town in Kansas where there is very little knowledge of or interest in colleges outside of the state, so it has been a real godsend for me to be able to share our trials and tribulations with such a kind and supportive group of people. Penn sounds like a truly remarkable place, and I can certainly see why it would hold a very, very special place in your heart and in your husband's! What a neat story! I hope that you have found CC to be as helpful as I have! Thanks for posting!</p>
<p>chocoholic~I see YOU have had the color class!! <em>lol</em> Thanks for the pretty congrats! You are right in that my son feels so validated now that his unique interests/abilities have been acknowledged by such fine schools. We actually didn't have to end up calling about the UM honors program...the envelop arrived shortly after the acceptance. Unfortunately, no money followed :(, or there might have been even MORE of a decision. Keep us posted on your D's decision. She has <em>wonderful</em> schools to choose from!!</p>
<p>Lhasa~You are just the sweetest! I thank you for following our story with such interest. How special for my son that others like you care so much about him. If you want to know the truth, I honestly think that the incredible karma brought about by you good people here at CC worked some serious magic. Thanks so much for posting!</p>
<p>parentny~Thanks so much for the congrats. I agree with you that this has been all the sweeter given our odds...a school which rarely sends anyone out of state, no budget for SAT prep and related stuff, etc. I admire my son so much for even dreaming this dream. We have been truly blessed by the results. </p>
<p>blossom~I find your post EXTREMELY insightful and filled with the best of advice. I have to agree with you WHOLEHEARTEDLY, and I thank you so much for putting this so eloquently. In the end, it may come down to the fact that he wouldn't wish to be pigeonholed in that way and ultimately left with less choices down the line. There just may be too significant a "bottom line" on this deal. Thank you for the marvelous thoughts on this!</p>
<p>~berurah</p>
<p>1sokkermom~You are right...blossom did make an EXCELLENT point, and I thank you for weighing in on this and letting me know that many of your own son's friends have changed their minds about majors.</p>
<p>jami~I appreciate your thoughts, as usual. What you said made a great deal of sense, and I think we are sharing a line of thinking here. The Vagelos Scholars program sounds very intriguing, but it just may not fit the bill for my son.</p>
<p>Berurah, I am pretty sure that the Hodson award is flexible aobut changes in direction, but do check that out as well. That is the benefit over the Vagelos as I see it , plus the bird in hand feature. I know that Hopkins has a number grad program possibilities and a number of kids leave with a master's, and there are number of phd entry programs. That is where Hopkins truly shine, and therein lies one of its biggest disadvantage which is that it is oftne not as attentive to undergrad needs. But with the award and the opportunities it can bring, it would be a serious consideration.</p>
<p>wake me up when it's over...I can't take much more of this!!!!</p>
<p>Congrats to the boy!</p>
<p>Berurah
I'm serious now, the color congrats is taking its toll on me. No more crikeys or yikes.
:)</p>
<p>Well, we haven't had "Gadzooks" yet. :)</p>
<p>or Aye Carumba!</p>
<p>LOL, Gadzooks and Aye Carumba! laughed so loud my D had to ask me what was so funny!</p>
<p>Berurah, thanks so much for the kind words about SFS. There was never any decision about other schools, she loves Georgetown so much. Ignoring all of the merit awards at the other schools was a bit difficult on me, though, I must admit! :)</p>
<p>How are all of the other kids reacting to this decision process, esp. the little ones that wore the Duke shirts to school? Must be quite exciting in your house these days!!!</p>
<p>I recently drove my daughter to Penn for a Model Congress, (3/25/05 or so) and the drive in was magical. It was about 8 PM and the city lights looked so beautiful --the city looked so exciting. I was sorry she didn't apply. Going to NYU with some $$, I love NY, but Philly looked good that night. I guess you just have to like being in a city. My D could never survive at a secluded campus in the middle of nowhere, and being in a city offers an education of its own. IMO, Donna</p>
<p>cangel~Yale who, indeed! :) Thanks for the congrats!!</p>
<p>dadofsam~I thank you for your insight on this question. I will have to look up Roy Vagelos...my dh grew up in Dow Chemicaland <em>lol</em> and his dad worked at Dow for 38 years! Anyway, I do agree with you about the pressure-cooker atmosphere that this program seems to present. That and the early pigeonholing make me nervous, not to mention the lack of guaranteed money. We're definitely leaning against this option. Thanks so much for posting. I always enjoy hearing what you have to say! :)</p>
<p>Alumother~If I have, in any small way, contributed to your deciding to join this community I feel both honored and grateful. You bring so very much to this community...humor, warmth, and kindness and knowledge! I am SO glad that you are here! You can bet I'll be there when you post your dilemma thread. I know your D has incredible choices, and her decision, I'm sure, will be quite the challenge!</p>
<p>mini~Meeting with momsdream, achat, you and your talented D would be my idea of a fantasy night out!! If we were to come to Philly, you would be assured of our presence. Thanks for the invitation!</p>
<p>momofthree~I SO appreciate your thoughts about and impressions of the Penn campus! I could just visualize it in my mind as I read your beautiful description! You know, it sounds like a place that <em>I</em> would love...the bustling surrounding area with its shops and restaurants. I am a city gal myself, but my kids have been raised mostly in this tiny town (though we ARE next to a bigger city so they know what one looks like :) ). I think my oldest son would LOVE the city. He has wanted to escape this area for many years now, and I know that he would welcome the diversity and the busy-ness of such a place. I am so glad that you daughter, even having come from a small town, feels safe there. You comments have assuaged many of my fears. I hope that your D is now fully recovered from whatever she was hospitalized for. I'm sure that was a stressful and difficult time for you both. And I wish her continued success with her doctoral program at Penn!!</p>
<p>~berurah</p>
<p>momsdream~I am in total agreement with you about the risky nature of the Vegalos program. It seems to be designed to encourage attrition, and that makes me nervous. I'm sure that my son would enjoy Penn very much regardless, but the financial factor would definitely come into play. For those reasons alone, it was not at the top of the list, though in our fantasy lives, it would have been! :) The other thing you mentioned that makes me squirm is the "monied look" of the student body. My son is very much into athletic clothing. He wears basketball shorts and t-shirts year round (yes, even in the occasional subzero temps we get here! <em>lol</em>). I fear he wouldn't fit in or that he would "look out of place". He is definitely not the type to alter his image or dress habits to conform to peer pressure. How do you think your son will take to this environment? Aren't you from Philly? Is he planning to live on campus? Just wondering....</p>
<p>jami~I, too, am under the impression that the Hodson scholar award is not tied to any specific curriculum. It is given on the basis of the freshman application, and I am quite sure that Hodson scholars are chosen from many different majors. At this point, we are definitely with you as far as the award and the opportunities it will provide. And, like you say, it does have the "bird in the hand" feature, as long as he keeps his GPA above 3.0.</p>
<p>texastaximom~Girl, you CRACK me up!! You just snooze on...I'll definitely let you know when it's all said and done! :)</p>
<p>chocoholic~awwwwwwww, I'm so sorry to have put you through all of those color congrats!! Black and white will do nicely! <em>lol</em> </p>
<p>garland~GADZOOKS!!! Yep, that was just for YOU! :)</p>
<p>texastaximom~AYE CARUMBA!!! :)</p>
<p>redr002~My words about Georgetown were definitely heartfelt! I can't stress enough how much advantage it gave my brother in the area of foreign service. He emphasized Asian Studies, and he ended up in the U.S. embassy in Beijing where he has had many opportunities to distinguish himself (He has also served at the embassy in Moscow). I am not normally a person who would advocate ignoring merit awards, but if you D is really interested in the foreign service, I can tell you without a doubt that you and she have made an excellent and very prudent decision. The opportunities are unlimited. Since you asked about the younger kids, I will tell you that Max is fairly distraught over the JHU thing...Duke was right there within his grasp! <em>lol</em> He doesn't fully understand the implications of the Hodson scholarship, but hey, he's eleven! <em>lol</em> I think the others are becoming weary of the subject of college decisions, but they have been very patient. We'll have to go out for a celebratory dinner when this wretched decision is finally made! :)</p>
<p>~berurah</p>