<p>I don’t know how to do it. All of ours were put in by other kids. You could probably ask anyone under the age of 12 though. HeHeHe.</p>
<p>And I think, Kimoki, that yours were done with cell phones based on the characteristics of the recordings and that faculty were patrolling the isles to prevent videotaping with camcorders. (Don’t even get me started about some of the “discussions” I had about videoing Guys and Dolls as well as West Side Story at our mutual high school.)</p>
<p>matthew, I enjoyed your Manchester England! My kids think I’m crazy but it’s one of my absolute favorite songs from Hair. A friend of ours did it at the Actors’ Fund Benefit a couple of years ago and I absolutely love his version. It’s such a fun song. Whenever I hear it, it sticks in my head for days. :)</p>
<p>Michael, it does surprise me how many people attempt to video school shows, and how many schools allow it! Not long ago, a high school in Pennsylvania was chosen to be one of the schools to do a production of the new school edition of Rent. Not only were they videotaping the show but the school was advertising DVDs for sale! MTI put the kibosh on that after being notified and my guess is that that school is going to have difficulty getting the license to do any show.</p>
<p>It was interesting. At our Jr. High, no issue was ever made about parents videotaping for their own personal use. Happened all the time. In fact, when my daughter was in 9th grade, a parent videoed the musical and with money left over from the cast party, made copies for all the cast members, crew and faculty involved for personal use. In the high school, however, the rules were strict - no taping at all. It didn’t stop parents from trying and faculty actually patrolled the isles to prevent it. When my daughter was in 11th and 12th grades, she was Maria in West Side Story and Sarah Brown in Guys and Dolls (with Kimoki’s D as Adelaide). I contacted MTI each year to attempt to secure limited taping rights for non-commercial personal use but was advised that the owners of the properties would not license taping for those shows. MTI does have a list of shows where taping rights can be obtained, but it is pretty limited.</p>
<p>I have some mixed feelings about the issue. In the world of professional musicians, I routinely negotiate collective bargaining agreements with ballet companies and orchestra associations that contain prohibitions and limitations on taping and the use of tapes by the employer entities so as to protect the livelihood of the musicians i.e. to assure that musicians won’t be replaced by tape (a real issue with ballet) and to assure that if the “work product” of the musicians is taped and used for any commercial enterprise that the musicians are compensated. I can understand the owners of show properties having a concern about diluting the commercial value of the shows if videotaping is unrestricted. I can also understand them wanting to be compensated for the use of their property.</p>
<p>It would seem to me, though, that there are some material distinctions between videotaping a show being professionally staged for commercial purposes and videotaping an amateur high school production for personal archival use. The problem, perhaps is one of enforcing and applying such distinctions uniformly and practically. None-the-less, in an industry that is constantly fighting to maintain public interest and support, it would seem to make sense to explore ways of addressing this issue.</p>
<p>Michael, </p>
<p>I agree with you. </p>
<p>Here is our experience. We have videotaped every single school show our kids have ever been in through high school. It was allowed. People have even wanted copies since my husband does a good job. 
At theater camps, we video taped every show our Ds were in. It so happened that the camps also videotaped the productions and sold copies to the families but we took our own because the expense added up and also when you make your own, you can zoom in and focus in any way you wish. We also were able to video local community theater productions and once when she was a kid and in a college musical production (they needed one child actor). </p>
<p>However, when our D has been in professional productions (and a few high level amateur ones), videotapes are not allowed and thus we do not have any of those shows to keep. Same with all college productions. </p>
<p>I’m with ya on the K-12 school productions being videotaped (again, we were allowed) and other youth productions of that sort at summer programs or in the community. </p>
<p>I totally undertand and draw the line with college productions and professional performances. </p>
<p>That said, when my D performed with several symphonies across the country (as an actor/singer), of course we could not tape it. However, these symphonies often taped it for their archives. One of the symphonies was very kind to me to let me have a copy for PERSONAL use since grandparents could not be there. I was very grateful and of course have not used it for any commercial purposes.</p>
<p>At our local high school, productions are videotaped – by a volunteer – and copies are supplied free of charge to all students involved in the production. We were advised that educational taping is allowed, but that copies may not be sold for profit.</p>
<p>My D tried to take a picture of the theatre at one of the colleges she auditioned at. No performance was going on but the set was still up for a show going on later in the day. She was told she could not take a picture because the rights to the set were owned.</p>
<p>I just saw West Side Story at out local high school & taping was being done for a DVD. THe entire orchestra was professionsl. D attended a MT camp this summer where she sang a WSS song & we were sent a DVD of the final showcase. One is for profit, the other was included as part of the camp fee. We’ve always bought DVDs of shows. So I’m not clear on this restriction: if the taping is being done by the show’s organizers it is o.k.? But not by audience members? I know at the MT camp we were warned not to tape & not to put up the DVD we’d be mailed on youtube.</p>
<p>Legally, you have to pay a fee to obtain the rights to perform any show that is copyrighted. The license is usually restricted and does not permit taping regardless of whether the entity is professional, amateur, for profit or not for profit. There are loads of situations in which the law and terms of the license are ignored but there is a risk involved since if caught, particularly taping for resale, there are legal consequences let alone ending up unable to get shows in the future.</p>
<p>Onstage, I’m curious about the education exception you referenced. Do you have any more info? When I looked at MTI’s website, the restrictions were very broad and did not specify any educational exception. This was reiterated in emails I had with MTI reps. I never took the time to research copyright law to determine if there were any statutory or common law exceptions. I figured that regardless of what I found, as a matter of contract MTI was prohibiting taping so it really didn’t matter what the law was outside of the contract; if the contract was breached and MTI found out, it would put at risk future licensing of our high school.</p>
<p>MNK – I don’t know the details. The fellow who does the taping checked the legal aspect of taping shows for “educational” purposes. He is an experienced theater person, and in general is a real nit-picker, so I assumed that the information was correct. He specifically has told us it’s okay to give away the DVD copies to the students involved, but it is illegal to sell them for profit. I don’t know where he got this information, though.</p>
<p>D’s middle & high school did not allow taping due to licensing rights etc., however, their Video Media class did tape to sell for ($15) profit (for P/A dept.).
We used to buy many VCR tapes until DVD’s came about. 
When they were awarded to take their show to the Thespians “Mainstage”
@ States I was sad that her school wasn’t allowed to tape. The Thespian program apparently did so, and I tried to purchase a copy to no avail.
I’ve heard through the grapevine that (some) colleges sell DVD
tapes for $5.00.
P.S. Personally I would never like to tape my D at performances - it takes away from the enjoyment. :-)</p>
<p>There is no education exception. This has been a longstanding problem at MTI and Samuel French, and in recent years, they have become increasingly vigilant. High schools and summer programs may ‘allow’ parents to tape shows but they are not following the license agreement which they have with the respective agencies. Last fall, a parent had put videos on youtube of her son’s performance in Rent, and other shows, at StageDoor Manor. MTI discovered them (they actually have people who regularly visit sites like that, as well as the popular bootleg sites) and one of the MTI execs had a conversation with the woman at SDM, who I believe is the director?, as well as with youtube and had them removed. Schools which do this are risking their ability to obtain the licenses they want in the future. Of course, there are schools, and some summer programs, which don’t bother even obtaining a license to do shows. They are often caught and the licensing agencies will, indeed, launch legal action if necessary to obtain any proceeds realized.</p>
<p>I don’t think there is an educational exception to videotaping. I would say that taping “West Side Story” - even for parents - is a copyright violation. I don’t think that MTI has the power to grant videotaping rights - only production rights so they prohibit it in the contract. There may be some companies that have obtained videotaping rights and can grant those rights - for archival purposes perhaps - but I don’t think MTI is one of them. You may also be able to negotiate a separate contract with the publisher for videotaping.</p>
<p>alwaysamom - I didn’t read your post before I posted but we are in agreement.</p>
<p>My d wanted to put on a show for her senior project. At first everything was OK because it was viewed as a class project but when the project started to get some attention and it was suggested that it move to a bigger auditorium that’s when we ran into a ton of problems with the school board. Eventually it all worked out but it seems to me that no one really knows the rules because we thought we did our homework and still had problems. I talked to other teachers and directors that we knew and we were told that if the show wasn’t the complete show ( which it wasn’t – a few songs were dropped and alot of dialogue), we didn’t charge a ticket price but asked for a donation to a charity ( which was also part of the senior project ) and if was done for educational purposes we would be OK. I even had one director send me info on the laws regarding the use of material.</p>
<p>We made changes to accomodate the requests the school made… one of which was that we could not tape the show.<br>
The show was basically done as a musical revue. Since this was a project it would have been nice to be able to use a tape when presenting her project but that’s not gonna happen. Very dissappointing.</p>
<p>I think it’s pretty clear that you need a license to even do excerpts for educational purposes unless it is performed in the confines of the classroom. Moving it to the auditorium changes things because it then seems to be partly done for entertainment, not just teaching. If a license is obtained, then you need permission to change the original in any way - changing lines, gender of cast, leaving songs out, etc. No matter what, the videotaping would be precluded.</p>
<p>kimoki, you’re correct that a lot of people don’t know what the rules are but, as in law, this is no excuse! Particularly for schools which do shows regularly, they should definitely know that obtaining the license to perform a show is required. Anything more than singing a couple of songs from a show, in a cabaret type performance/musical revue with songs from many shows, requires a license. Simply dropping ‘a few songs and a lot of dialogue’ is not enough. Only requesting a donation to charity is not enough. Even if it’s done for ‘educational purposes’ is not enough. Shows grant licensing agencies the performance rights for a reason. I don’t say this to blame you, but your school should be aware of this, if the students and parents are not. They are taking a chance by breaking the rules, not to mention setting a bad example.</p>
<p>My kids have been in a childrens theatre and we’ve been allowed to only tape the shows at the dress rehearsals without a paying audience.</p>
<p>Taping rehearsals is no different from taping the show - it’s a violation unless they negotiated that right somehow. That’s a distinction without a difference. Whether money is involved or not makes no difference although many people seem to think it does. Charity doesn’t change things - doing it for parents or grandparents doesn’t change things either.</p>