<p>Like I said eventually we did abide by the rules that were set but it was quite a scramble at the end. But as mentioned we had checked with quite a few folks outside of the school so we thought we were doing everything right. Oh and it was at the request of another teacher that it move to the auditorium not the students involved. Anyway in the end it was definitely a learning experience in ways that my d never expected and will never forget.</p>
<p>
I have to believe this would have been done by the school taping WSS. I know they do not use the graphics from any show in their advertising/playbills because that involves paying another fee. It’s a very high quality program & the director wold not take a risk like that. As for the MT summer program – it’s run by one of the schools on the MT college list. It was a musical review, not complete shows, and the director talked to the audience about how strictly they follow MTI guidelines. Again, I can’t imagine taping would have been done without a contract.</p>
<p>To follow up with catera45’s post #36, when I discussed with MTI videotaping a h.s. production of Guys and Dolls for personal archival use, it was explained that they were without authority from the owner to license videotaping. They could not enter into a contract for taping even if they wanted to. They did state that they do have a list of shows where taping is part of the license or can be obtained. I don’t remember the shows now but my recollection is that the list was short and that it involved children’s productions.</p>
<p>Let’s just get rid of this thread, and start one on copyright laws and video’s because I am unaware of it and I’m sure other’s are too.</p>
<p>SS, I think we’d all like to believe that schools would obtain the permission and license involved for every show they do. Unfortunately, this is not the case, even, sometimes with some very well known schools and colleges. In 2005, CMU advertised a concert version of a current Broadway show, something which they definitely did not have the rights for (as they were not available!), and MTI intervened. I don’t think anyone would dispute the excellence of CMU, or the reputation of StageDoor Manor, which, as has been mentioned in this thread, has video-recorded all of its shows, and provided copies to campers’ families. </p>
<p>Every year there are schools in many parts of the country who perform shows without obtaining the license. There are schools which allow recording their shows. There are schools which change aspects of shows to fit their needs, whether it’s eliminating certain songs, or scenes, or characters, or combining characters, all without permission. All of these things are against the rules.</p>
<p>It isn’t only schools/programs which don’t know any better. The high school in Pennsylvania, which I mentioned earlier, who were advertising sales of dvds of their performance of Rent, is a school which apparently is very well-known and well-respected for its excellence in Drama. This is one of the reasons why it was chosen to be involved in the early stages of the school edition of Rent, as they were years ago with Les Mis. Its longtime director shouldn’t have allowed it.</p>
<p>Rules/laws which exist to protect productions should be respected, regardless of whether the show is being done in your local high school auditorium or in a Broadway theatre. The rights issue is an important one as is evidenced prior to every professional performance where the admonition against recording a show is announced, along with the rule against photographs being taken of the sets inside the theatre.</p>
<p>There is one thing I don’t get with the video taping of youth productions such as at K-12 schools and summer youth programs. For example, at both my childrens’ theater camps, Stagedoor Manor and French Woods Festival of the Performing Arts, they put on 36 full scale productions per summer and have for years and years and at both camps, every production is videotaped and distributed to families if they want one. I don’t think this is a big secret or under the table whatsoever. These camps get the licenses every summer from the same major licensing companies. In fact, MTI has a very good relationship with Stagedoor, for example, in that they chose Stagedoor to workshop and put on the first productions of High School Musical, RENT, Avenue Q, junior version of Sweeney Todd and so on. So, I don’t know what the rules are for videotaping school and youth productions for families but this is all out in the open at both of the two theater camps my girls attended.</p>
<p>I am wondering, if like onstage refers to, if there is some stipulation about taping for educational purposes and not for profit. Not sure, but that is what she came across in her experience. I admit to having no knowledge of it but am surmising that there may be some rule to that affect as these programs would not be allowed to keep taping for families and still continue to work so closely with the people who distribute licenses for productions. </p>
<p>I do think there is a big difference in taping for families and putting things on YouTube. I totally get why MTI wanted clips from RENT off YouTube. In fact, I don’t understand how so many BFA programs mentioned here have clips of their productions on YouTube. I know my child’s college (Tisch) doesn’t have clips of productions on YouTube (let alone you can’t tape shows there).</p>
<p>Always, I’m not talking about performing a show without obtaining a license, or paying royalties. Or changing anything without permission. I know that was not done in the cases I mentioned, and clearly only an idiot or a dishonest director would proceed without obtaining permission. It seems, however, that the taping is a fuzzy area. Personal use is very different than uploading a clip onto Youtube. Yet the MTI site makes no mention of it, as far as I can see. Obviously the college MT program that opened the performance by speaking about MTI licenses and respecting the rights is not disregarding those rights. I’m seeking clarification on the recording situation so that I personally, or performing groups that my kids might be involved with, do not unknowingly cross an ethical line. We never burn CDs to pass on to anyone, or xerox sheetmusic that we haven’t paid for. It’s stealing. So I feel very strongly that if some type of permission system is in place for videotaping, it should be publicized so that nobody is unknowingly breaking rules.</p>
<p>The discussion about YouTube exemplifies why this issue has become a “hot button”. The internet and related forms of electronic distribution have drastically changed the landscape of copyright and intellectual property issues. Virtually every collective bargaining agreement with performers’ unions across the country is now addressing the issue. Similarly, employers and property owners in the industry have been forced to respond to the potential impact of the ease and scope of high quality distribution that the internet and digital files make available. Pirating copies of cd’s or DVD’s is old school!</p>
<p>Here is a good place to start - from the MTI webite. </p>
<p><a href=“http://www.mtishows.com/ftp/MTI_Licensing_Intro.pdf[/url]”>http://www.mtishows.com/ftp/MTI_Licensing_Intro.pdf</a> </p>
<p>Another good source </p>
<p><a href=“http://www.falmouththeatreguild.org/videotape.doc[/url]”>http://www.falmouththeatreguild.org/videotape.doc</a></p>
<p>It’s really not fuzzy - videotaping is not allowed - not of a rehearsal, a scene, a song. It’s a pretty sure bet if MTI is involved that there was no separate right granted to videotape because MTI doesn’t have the right to grant permission to videotape - that right belong to the authors. There is no situation in which videotaping is allowed - unless permission is granted by the authors. Personal use is not an exception. MTI can only grant “grand rights” - the right to produce a show in its entirety with no changes. “Small rights” involve doing a song from the show and that means dealing with a different organization. </p>
<p>I.E. Clark has rights to many children’s theater plays and some limited videotaping may be allowed - for archival purposes or to help with rehearsing but never to be shown to any type of audience.</p>
<p>It’s all very interesting. I believe our school productions are also shown on our local community television station.</p>
<p>
Thanks for the link. But it’s still fuzzy, I think. While MTI does not control rights to videotape, there obviously has to be an organization or agency that does. (They mention the granting of small right & listed the organizations who handle those.) Otherwise, these musicals would never be produced on film. I just wonder who handles this. </p>
<p>I imagine that MTI and any other agency is between a rock & a hard place here. While they want to see that the artists creating these works get a royalty (and that they get their cut, too,) they also can’t make the process too arduous & complicated. If they did so, high schools & community theaters would eventually not bother staging the shows.</p>
<p>This situation reminds me of hiring a contractor. If I ask if he uses only legal workers, have I fulfilled my obligation? Or do I request paperwork to examine for myslef? </p>
<p>Should I not let my kids take part in productions until I see the licensing agreements?</p>
<p>Back when my MT kid was in middle school, the school announced that it would no longer be videotaping musicals and plays for distribution to parents and they would not allow parents and relatives to videotape those productions, either, as doing so constituted copyright laws. I remember feeling grumpy about this, especially when we would attend performances at other neighboring schools and they would be videotaping away! As I understand it, not even school and camp productions are not immune from this rule.</p>
<p>MTI has a kid’s collection for which video rights are included in the license. These would be appropriate for children’s theater productions. With them, it is okay to videotape for personal use. Many Disney productions are included in this group.</p>
<p>This is my understanding: Sometimes the rights to videotaping a production can be bought, but a contract would most likely state that the videotaped copies may be used for personal use ONLY. Posting material from these videos on youtube is in violation of the contract that was signed when the rights were purchased. Technically, the theatre or group that purchased the rights and agreed to the contract terms could face penalties for youtube postings if they are “discovered”.</p>
<p>Good info. Do you know how (and from whom) the videotaping rights for shows other than the MTI kid’s collection can be obtained?</p>
<p>I think with most shows, other than kid’s shows, you have to go directly to the owners of publishing rights. For example, the official website from “West Side Story” gives info about licensing. </p>
<p>[West</a> Side Story - The Official Site](<a href=“http://www.westsidestory.com/licensing.php]West”>http://www.westsidestory.com/licensing.php)</p>
<p>In order to videotape, you would need to contact the Leonard Bernstein company. I would imagine permission from Sondheim would be needed to.</p>
<p>How is a student suppose to know how to proceed when it seems to me from all of the posts here today that with very well know schools, camps and colleges all setting such a bad example. My d is not an idiot. All she did was seek info from previous directors and take from what she has experienced by being a part of summer camps & children’s programs. By the way, one of the kids in her project goes to one of the camps mentioned above, so he along with my d were just following examples set for them. </p>
<p>“Let’s just get rid of this thread, and start one on copyright laws and video’s because I am unaware of it and I’m sure other’s are too.”</p>
<p>I dont’ know how to highlight a quote but I agree with IBEElienveINU. Maybe it would be best to remove some of the earlier posts and just keep this discussion under a new name. It doesn’t really matter to me because I have never taped a show or uploaded one to YouTube but I would hate for someone else to have any problems because of this thread and lack of knowledge.</p>
<p>Kimoki, I think, however, you are talking about two different issues here. Some are discussing videotaping. But I believe in your D’s project, some were discussing the rights to performing a show or a shortened version of the show, etc.</p>
<p>For example, the camps I mentioned secure the rights to produce their shows. I am not clear on the permission aspect to videotaping the shows for the families and how they are able to do that given what others are writing here but I just know that they have great relationships with these theater licensing companies. I don’t know how that aspect works but it is not the same as rights to performing a show which I think is one issue in your D’s project from what I am understanding.</p>
<p>I realize that the discussion has moved on to videotaping but it is still the same idea. If parents are confused about the rights to videotaping because of what they have been told and shown by example then the same goes for students and the example set for them when they are doing shows.</p>