YouTube Cons, Cautions and Kudos

College Majors Musical Theater Major
1

<p>YouTube comes up for MT students in several contexts. It's a relatively new resource that might merit discussion, as it clearly has both benefits and dangers.</p>

<p>Here are a few things I've considered over the years, but I'd love to hear your thoughts and experiences.</p>

<p>CONS ----------------------
* Some people feel strongly that live theatre should only been experienced live.
* Concerns about copyright infringement. I've personally heard of a copyright owner wanting to post ads with a video involving their material (seems infinitely fair). I have never known anyone who was asked to remove something, but I'm sure it happens. I don't know details of noncommercial creative commons copyright laws. It seems wrong to post a video of new material without the express permission of the writers, and also to post video of performers without their permission.<br>
* A video with poor sound/video quality can make even a great performance sound/look weak, while an auto-tuned video can make a bad performer sound good.</p>

<p>CAUTIONS ******************
* YouTube is forever. Even if you later realize a performance you posted was career-limiting, odds are someone else has embedded it somewhere so deleting it won't remove it from the web.
* If there is only a single performance on YouTube, an actor may be typecast/misjudged based on it.
* As you grow over the years, you may forever be judged by a young performance.
* It is dangerous to judge an MT school by YouTube performances, unless you know the full context of the video. Was it a mainstage production or the first-ever runthrough of a student-produced work? Is it a school that carefully edits/restricts what gets posted, or are you seeing random raw footage? Is it a school with only a very small select group of students, or are you seeing video of weaker/stronger performers from a larger class?</p>

<p>KUDOS ++++++++++++++++
* It is awesome to be able to see various performances from all eras of MT on YouTube.
* Some amazing moments in MT have been captured for broader audiences to experience.
* D has been called and has gotten roles specifically because someone saw a performance on YouTube. Casting Directors have used YouTube to see extra material when time/location didn't permit a live audition or callback.
* A young performer can get anonymous feedback. While this might be devastating, it might also provide a needed dose of reality, guidance toward future training or positive encouragement.<br>
* Provides a free showcase for emerging talent.
* Great resource for finding new material.</p>

<p>I'd love to hear other people's thoughts about YouTube; Cons, Cautions and Kudos. For current MT students, does your school coach you wrt YouTube, and if so what do they say?</p>

2

<p>Have most people here posted videos of your performances to YouTube? Why or why not?</p>

<p>Do you use YouTube as an MT resource? How?</p>

<p>Have you used YouTube in evaluating MT programs? Why or why not? </p>

<p>If you’re in an MT program now, do they give any advice about using YouTube? If so, what’s their advice?</p>

3

<p>My D and most of her friends have clips posted on YouTube. Some have even been cast in shows as a result.</p>

<p>Re: MT programs, many schools do not allow clips of their productions to be posted on YouTube, due to copyright laws. You may be able to find more videos of things like cabarets, etc., and this can give you an indication of what the program is like.</p>

4

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<p>It definitely happens. MTI and other licensing agents regularly do this. Many MT programs seem to think that recording shows and putting them up on youtube is perfectly fine. It isn’t.</p>

5

<p>I recommend turning off comments, unless you want to continually log on and edit what gets posted (or set comments to “approve before posting”). While many comments can be helpful and/or fun, some of the comments that get posted on youtube are vulgar, profane and purposely hurtful. </p>

<p>We have found Youtube to be a really handy resouce when introducing our daughter for auditions since she is a relative latecomer to the local youth theatre scene (she didn’t do years of elementary and middleschool classes and camps at the theatres like so many kids in the area). As soon as they see her Youtube video, they want her to audition.</p>

6

<p>D has had various YouTube things posted for the past year, and like others here she has been called and cast for several things as a direct result. She has (fortunately) not had any problems with unkind comments yet, though that can surely be a downside of any semi-anonymous system.</p>

<p>D has also become familiar with MANY new MT performers, composers and with much new material through YouTube.</p>

<p>We’ve heard that some MT schools encourage students to remove all YouTube postings. Is this true, and if so, why?</p>

<p>We were initially misled about the relative quality of various MT programs by seeing some poor performances on YouTube, only to learn later the context of those performances (not mainstage or the best performers). Anyone else fall prey to this apples-and-oranges problem when trying to use YouTube to compare schools?</p>

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<p>At Syracuse U, the theater department actively searches YouTube and removes any videos of main stage productions. Copyright law forbids videotaping of copyrighted material, and this particular school is very strict about it. Some other schools seem to be a bit more lax.</p>

8

<p>I expect that any regional or professional theatre (including college MT programs) won’t post any video clips of mainstage productions on YouTube unless they get express permission. This is particularly true of theatres that produce any new works.</p>

<p>That’s a bit different than forbidding MT students to have any performances (including cabarets, workshops, etc.) on YouTube. It’s also different than actively policing YouTube for bootlegged clips from their productions. It seems that most MT programs and theatres don’t do either of the above, though perhaps some do. </p>

<p>I have heard that some composers like to have (good) YouTube videos of their work posted, and there’s an annual performance of new works in our area that always posts YouTube performances.</p>

<p>Just curious – has anyone here personally been asked to remove a video from YouTube? If so, by who?</p>

9

<p>I actually talked with my department chair (kjgc) about this the other day, and he told me CCU is among the group of schools that do not post clips from their shows online as to not violate the rights of the show. However, if a student wishes to see clips from some CCU productions, they can (and often do) ask and have some sent to them. If you are truly determined to see a video, other schools may have this policy as well. It wouldn’t hurt to ask at some place like Syracuse that doesn’t allow them on Youtube. However, I agree with the posts above that it should not be the sole or even a huge consideration on selecting schools. But they are fun to watch, more so for the technical than performance quality.</p>

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<p>@AlexaMT – Great point! I know there is at least one professional theatre in our area that will also let you (at least in some circumstances) come in to their offices to watch a video of past productions, all of which they have professionally recorded for their archives.</p>

<p>D knows at least two MT performers who virtually launched their current fame via YouTube. It would have been a shame if they had been prevented from posting video clips early in their careers, and I know there are lots of amazing performances we would never have seen had they not been on YouTube.</p>

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<p>MomCares - if what they posted was copyrighted and used without permission they did not pay for the use of that material, no credit or royalties were given. Therefore they are criminals because they profited from other peoples’ work without permission and without payment. </p>

<p>They are not “just kids” they are stealing from others in order to profit themselves and that is illegal with copyrighted material. They are part of a multi-billion dollar theft ring that is rampant around the world today and should not be condoned by anyone. It is not “a shame” as you say, it is criminal to those they stole from.</p>

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<p>@amtc – As a product designer, I am a believer in intellectual property rights. However, as far as I know, none of the people I am referring to profit from their YouTube postings, as no ad space is sold. As I said in the initial post, I am not an expert in the laws surrounding the creative commons, nor laws around fair use, but it seems the standard YouTube license must somehow cover the not-for-profit posting of at least some performances. Either that or the copyright holders have decided no harm is done by these postings as it is certainly simple for them to find the people who have posted the hundreds of thousands of MT performances on YouTube. </p>

<p>The reputation the folks I refer to built on YouTube was built on the quality of their performances… performances which one might argue they own. As a designer, I would not object of someone used my product in a piece of performance art – only if they copied my product and tried to sell it as their own.</p>

<p>I realize this is a grey area and many people have strong feeling about it. That’s one reason I was interested in this discussion.</p>

<p>Can we assume that your D will never post any YouTube performances?</p>

13

<p>I forgot to mention that most YouTube MT videos I’ve seen do credit the composers.</p>

<p>There’s a continuum from outright piracy (e.g. making copies of sheet music and illegally selling them), to selling tickets to performances of material for which you did not secure a license, to using a video of a licensed performance to sell YouTube ads or tickets to a future performance, to posting bootlegged videos of someone elses performance for noncommercial use, to posting videos of your own performance for noncommercial use. There is also a difference between posting video of an entire musical versus a 2-minute clip. It seems that copyright holders acknowledge this continuum from outright piracy to Fair Use.</p>

14

<p>It doesn’t matter if someone is profiting financially or not, it is still illegal. It’s the same reason that schools are not permitted to produce shows without securing, and paying for the rights, regardless of whether or not they are charging for admission. Students who are pursuing a career in theatre would do well to learn this now.</p>

15

<p>So am I correctly understanding that it is your position that there is no such thing as Fair Use or creative commons on YouTube? This would, in your estimation, include a recording of a free pre-school performance that involved kids singing copyrighted material?</p>

<p>If so, can I assume that you also don’t condone watching YouTube MT videos to get ideas for material? </p>

<p>I know as a product designer we paid big bucks for product placement in film, and music producers “pay” (bribe) radio stations to promote their music, and I personally know at least two MT composers who don’t mind the exposure that YouTube performances bring their material, but I am sure this isn’t true of all copyright holders. </p>

<p>Our D ALWAYS purchases sheet music for any piece she performs as we are believers in intellectual property. She recently bought 5 copies of one song so she didn’t give illegal copies to adjudicators in a competition. I guess I view non-commercial YouTube postings of non-professional performances as Fair Use, and apparently many others do as well or there would be nothing posted on YouTube, but I am not a legal expert. </p>

<p>It is an interesting social/legal issue that has been created by YouTube and social media.</p>

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<p>JUST an fyi: [YouTube</a> - Broadcast Yourself.](<a href=“http://www.youtube.com/t/howto_copyright]YouTube”>What is copyright? - YouTube Help)</p>

<p>youtube explains copyright infringement:</p>

<p>What is copyright? Copyright is a form of protection provided for original works of authorship, including literary, dramatic, musical, graphic and audiovisual creations. “Copyright” literally means the right to copy, but has come to mean that body of exclusive rights granted by law to copyright owners for protection of their work.</p>

<p>What is copyright infringement? Copyright infringement occurs when a copyrighted work is reproduced, distributed, performed, publicly displayed, or made into a derivative work without the permission of the copyright owner.</p>

<p>Posting copyright-infringing content can lead to the termination of your account, and possibly monetary damages if a copyright owner decides to take legal action (this is serious—you can get sued!). Below are some guidelines to help you determine whether your video is eligible or whether it infringes someone else’s copyright. You can also find copyright FAQs within our Help Center.</p>

<p>As a general matter, we at YouTube respect the rights of artists and creators, and hope you will work with us to keep our community a creative, legal and positive experience for everyone, including artists and creators.
How To Make Sure Your Video Does Not Infringe Someone Else’s Copyrights</p>

<p>The way to ensure that your video doesn’t infringe someone else’s copyright is to use your skills and imagination to create something completely original. It could be as simple as taping some of your friends goofing around, and as complicated as filming your own short movie with a script, actors, and the whole works. If it’s all yours, you never have to worry about the copyright—you own it! Make sure to follow the other guidelines in the terms of use, too.</p>

<p>Be sure that all components of your video are your original creation—even the audio portion. For example, if you use an audio track of a sound recording owned by a record label without that record label’s permission, your video may be infringing the copyrights of others, and may be subject to removal.YouTube offers a library of authorized music to liven up your video.</p>

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<p>Stanford has an entire web site dedicated to “Fair Use” including this quote:</p>

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<p>[Stanford</a> Copyright & Fair Use - Summaries of Fair Use Cases](<a href=“http://fairuse.stanford.edu/Copyright_and_Fair_Use_Overview/chapter9/9-c.html]Stanford”>http://fairuse.stanford.edu/Copyright_and_Fair_Use_Overview/chapter9/9-c.html)</p>

<p>It is not clear at all to me that posting a video on youtube of your kid singing a song for which you have purchased the sheet music and/or the proper rights were obtained (if it is from a public performance), is a clear violation of copyright laws. Of course, there are many factors involved, such as obtaining the consent of all those involved and obtaining permission to video, and lots more, but I believe that, in general, this probably can be argued as constituting “Fair Use.” See the Lenz case referenced on the Stanford site (a mom posted a video of her kid dancing to a recorded song), while not completely applicable, it is related. However, I am no lawyer (but I was a lawyer for pretend in a school play!).</p>

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<p>Just curious – </p>

<p>Are there any MT schools that prohibit students from having anything posted on YouTube? I think I have seen YouTube videos of students from virtually every major program I can think of (NOT of mainstage or even school performances).</p>

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<p>I’ll chime in. </p>

<p>MomCares, I don’t think a MT program can prohibit an individual from putting any of their OWN stuff on YouTube. I haven’t ever heard of that, no. </p>

<p>However, before you even talk about YouTube, I can tell you that my D’s college program (NYU/Tisch) doesn’t allow videotaping of its shows. Putting it on YouTube is a moot point. You can’t video tape the shows. Obviously you may not put them on YouTube. You won’t find videos of Tisch musical/drama productions on YouTube. You will find people who are current students or alum of Tisch who have their OWN videos on YouTube, however. </p>

<p>Speaking on a personal note, my daughter doesn’t have any videos from musical theater productions on YouTube. This is for two reasons. One is that NONE of her college musicals were allowed to be videoed and NONE of her professional musicals can be videoed either. (all her work in the past six years has been either college or professsional) For example, you can’t video an Equity production and put it on YouTube. Even my D’s own original musical (which she does own the copyright to) could not have its recent NYC Equity production put on YouTube. She videoed it for archive purposes only. We do have a video of an Equity tour she was on (the cast agreed to it for personal use only) and will never put that on YouTube. The only musicals we have, therefore, that could be put on YouTube are from before college (BC!). We have lots and lots of musicals on video here at home. Back before college (2005), YouTube was not as popular as it is now. We did not put up videos of her shows back then. Once YouTube became popular during her college years and since, she refuses to put up any videos of her musicals before college because she considers that before she was formerly trained (though of course she trained a lot before college). She is professional now and doesn’t want YouTube videos of herself in musicals from before this period (as much as I love those performances). </p>

<p>My D does have videos on YouTube but they are not of musicals! She has videos from various showcases/cabarets, singer/songwriter performances (original material), concerts, etc. </p>

<p>The issue about the copyright (I’m not a lawyer!) isn’t merely that the person posting them is not using them for profit, but rather that the musical works (I’m talking of musical theater productions, not simply singing a song) are copyrighted. That is why the college won’t allow them to be videotaped or posted either. </p>

<p>I think one should be very careful as to what they post on YouTube, avoiding copyrighted musical theater productions, as well as avoiding some pre-professional level work when younger. </p>

<p>I would not judge MT college programs based on what’s on YouTube. All should remember that some colleges follow the “rules” and don’t even post their productions online. </p>

<p>I do think YouTube is used by many and even casting people. I recall last year when my D was casting the workshop version of her original musical and one of the major casting companies in NYC was casting it, as well as the Equity production of it this year, the casting company did not hold regular auditions. They went through their roster of actors and sent my D suggested names for various roles to consider. My D knew of the work of a lot of these actors but not of all. To learn more about them, she viewed them on YouTube and their websites if they had one. It did make me think of how important it is if what is on YouTube represents you well or not because she was making judgments and decisions based on what was online. Recently, this same casting office cast my daughter in a new musical workshop in NYC and my D never auditioned for it. I am not sure how they knew her talent (her contact with them previously was on the other side of the casting table…casting her show) and I wonder if they looked her up online. They must have as they contacted her talent agent which they could have only obtained from her website.</p>

<p>YouTube is a great resource. If you want to hear a particular song (or singer), you can find it online often. And you can get exposure for your own work on YouTube. Just be careful how you choose to represent yourself and if you want to wait until you have some college training under your belt, etc. before putting yourself on the internet for a long time.</p>

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<p>@soozievt – I am SO glad you weighed in, particularly with your D’s unique perspective as both a talented working actor AND composer!</p>

<p>I completely agree with your cautions. We’ve never taken video of any of D’s professional performances, of any of the new works she has performed or of any performance where video was prohibited. The only video of musicals we’ve ever taken was of high school productions where we were specifically asked to film by directors who had obtained rights to tape a high school production. We would never post a video with any performer who did not give permission to be filmed and to have the video posted.</p>

<p>D does have some pre-college video on YouTube, as do many kids who have not yet been to college. I share your D’s concern that it won’t reflect her more mature skill level (hopefully all that college tuition won’t be for nothing) but it seems as YouTube matures so will people’s understanding that performers mature over time. </p>

<p>Like yours, our D has been cast by folks who saw her on YouTube. We have even heard a casting director say they find it irritating when they can’t find samples of a performer’s work on YouTube. </p>

<p>I also agree that YouTube is an amazing resource, but there is certainly complexity around what to post and when.</p>