<p>Another thank you for an excellent post. So many good points,and I especially like it, as cc is often (somewhat correctly) seen as a place only for the uberstudents seeking uber colleges. Many of us want cc's wonderful resources to be seen as relevant to all students. Your post is a major contribution to that.</p>
<p>Chuck,
That was a hilarious story!</p>
<p>Congrats, BMoyilan, to you, your W, and your S! Parents know their kids best and luckily for your S, you and your wife had the fortitude to stick to your gut instincts where your S is concerned. Your story also undermines the importance of using multiple sources of information and not relying on the advice of one (misguided) GC.</p>
<p>It seems some GC's haven't changed. When in high school (#3/425) and asking for college advice, I was told (1975) that girls didn't need a college education, derided for dropping my typing class since all secretaries needed to know how to type, and advised that, if I really must waste my time going to college, I should seek a degree in accounting as I might actually use it. Was told that I would never be the doctor I wanted to be because I was "too idealistic". Thank God I walked out and never went back. I'm a professor in medicine at a top 10 university hospital. When GC's don't make sense, follow your instinct! Get another! Thank heavens your wife has the knowledge and tenacity to work this through for your son. This might be a time when a session or two with an independent counselor might be worth the $$$.</p>
<p>BMoyilan~</p>
<p>This is the most fascinating and inspiring story, and I thank you for sharing it. HUGE CONGRATULATIONS to your determined son for his college accpetances and his final choice!! How exciting for all of you, a very special triumph considering the circumstances.</p>
<p>We, too, found our GC a bit less than helpful, particularly at first. Despite his excellent grades and test scores and his very determined nature, she did not seem to support his aspiration to attend an out-of-state school, particularly some of the more elite ones to which he was applying (I had to step in much as you and your wife did for your son). It has been a frustrating road. In our case, I think my son's persistence finally won her over, and lately (now that he's actually been admitted to his dream school and some others), she seems genuinely happy for him.</p>
<p>At any rate, you are very, very correct when you point out that there are some inept GCs out there. A parent must be very proactive in this whole process, and obviously you and your wife have. WAY TO GO!!</p>
<p>~berurah</p>
<p>Chuck,
...but think of the <em>diversity</em> you could have offered those colleges back then.</p>
<p>Bill - great post about your son - and CONGRATS to him on his acceptances!!! - now - go put a whoopy cushion with super glue on the GC's chair!!! AND on his phone handle also!!! uugghhhhh That GC needs to be ''educated'' on how to work with ALL kids - I sure hope you let the upper eschelon's know about his behaivor towards your son - and probably many others as well - I believe EVERY kiddo has potential - this GC has NO CLUE!!! </p>
<p>My DD's GC wasn't much help - but we did all the research and got all the paper work together and just landed it on her desk - watched her sign/write everything - add in the needed sealed recomendations and then picked it back up and took it to the post office ourselves. Ya - I know - pretty pushy mom here - but hey - we got results. Glad you persevered for your DS - the outcome has been all worth it.</p>
<p>My DS's GC was completely the opposite - he could not do enough for him - when there was a problem with a ''bad grade'' given him by a teacher who didn't want him in the class - he being a senior in an AP class - the GC actually called the adcom for my son to explain the horrendous situation that was going on - and asked if there was anything he could do to 'help' my DS's application - as this could not be resolved on the same day - adcom was reviewing his app on the same day grades came out - the adcom requested another letter of recommendation - which was faxed within 5 minutes - and wallaaaaaaaaa...............the boy was accepted!!!!! irregardless!!!!!</p>
<p>GC's can make or brake a kiddo - thank goodness you were a very strong parent and your DS received incredible support on your end - what a difference it has made for him.
CONGRATS to you both.</p>
<p>Thanks for posting! I hope you'll stick around and continue to add your wisdom into our boards.</p>
<p>Your post is a wonderful example about the importance of parents and students researching college options instead of relying soley on guidance counselors.</p>
<p>In general, most GCs don't see enough high end kids to ever get truly educated on the elite schools (exceptions at privates and a few public HS). We were lucky on two counts: 1) D was determined early in HS to get to an elite school (I don't know where that came from); 2) GC was willing to listen and learn. D read everything on elite admissions and helped educate her GC (and me). GC did her part in talking to adcoms to get their story on what it takes. We were all still in the dark until the admissions started rolling in as the school had no real track record to compare to. We were lucky D started early and we were lucky to have a caring GC that was willing to try. Bottom line is that it is your life. You need to be in charge of your own future. Hopefully, you'll get some help along the way. If not, you do it yourself. The sad part is many kids don't know that they can do it on their own inspite of the GC or other obstacles.</p>
<p>I agree w/ Jamimom about the letter to the principal w/ a copy (noted on principal's letter) to the school board. Without documentation changes will never occur! It may not be a fight you want to fight, but it is a point you need to make for those who follow. Who knows!? The light may dawn for the gc.<br>
Still, while I would not recommend this path, what a wonderful skill you have instilled in your child w/ your GO FOR IT attitude!</p>
<p>What an encouraging story, BMoy. My son will have a very good GC (if she is still working in 4 years), but that 83 average and 1200 SAT sounds like him. I'm going to print this out for my husband.</p>
<p>A couple of parents have suggested that you write a letter to the principal and to your local school board. Speaking as a former school board trustee, let me assure you, we take complaints like yours--with details, dates, and evidence, if possible--very seriously. If you can get this ONE counselor straightened out or removed, it will help dozens of kids in the future. And it will send a message to counselors all over your school district.</p>
<p>Please also copy the school district superintendent and, if such a person exists, the district-level person in charge of counselors. Telephone your local school board representative and ask him/her what's going to be done about it. Call the school district and ask how to get on the school board meeting agenda. If other parents have had similar experiences, bring them to the school board meeting with you to just sit there, bear witness, and "hrmph" loudly. Don't let the administration sweep this under the rug. Too many parents just shrug and leave the doofuses (bad teachers, bad counselors, whatever) in place. </p>
<p>Congratulations on being a smart, active parent. </p>
<p>P.S. Although your story is a real hair-raiser, I think most of us have had some disappointments in dealing with counselors. My daughter, like another poster, was urged to apply at Boston College--and we're half Jewish, half atheist. Another counselor (same school) encouraged her to apply to four Ivies when she was quite sure D would get rejected, costing us $300 in apps and dooming my D to a week of sorrow when the inevitable rejections came. (It's all working out, though--she's going to Berkeley and learning to politely sneer at places that admit Jenna Bush with an 1190 and a DUI.)</p>
<p>"she's going to Berkeley and learning to politely sneer at places that admit Jenna Bush with an 1190 and a DUI."</p>
<p>Hey, don't knock it - it's just affirmative action at work. ;)</p>
<p>Thanks for sharing -- this is a good reminder that high school GC's don't necessarily know what they're doing, and some can be downright detrimental. If they were all well-informed, I'd be out of business, but it's still depressing to know that most families will take their advice to heart because they don't have any way of knowing whether their GC is trustworthy or not.</p>
<br>
<p>My daughter, like another poster, was urged to apply at Boston College--and we're half Jewish, half atheist.</p>
<br>
<p>No kidding. My best friend was interested in Bryn Mawr and Swarthmore, so her counselor pressed her to apply to Villanova, too. And this was at Walt Whitman, a very high-achieving public high school in Bethesda.</p>
<p>people - you do know that Jenna Bush did not attend an Ivy. sister Barbara attended Yale...</p>
<p>Oops, 1200 and a DAD with a DUI. ;) And you're right, SOMEONE has to be at the bottom end of the curve--better someone who's paying full tuition and (I hope) making substantial contributions to the scholarship fund.</p>
<p>To balance my post above, I dont want this to be seen as a gc-bashing thread. My oldest daughter is an elite student (and not just in my eyes ) and proudly lesbian. Her gc in high school was extremely supportive and agreed to be the faculty advisor for a gay-straight alliance. She mentored my d. through some hard times and encouraged her be herself.
D. graduated two years ago from a top liberal arts woman's college and is well launched in her community organizing career. My wife and I believe the gc deserves much of the credit for our d. avoiding pitfalls and prejudice.
As do the accepting people of our liberal state- Vermont.</p>
<p>Chuck</p>
<p>My son's advisor wrote me about HIS "guidance counselor" (really just the home room teacher) back in the 1960s in NYC. "That is MISS McGillicuddy, as we were reminded so many times!! She was my home room teacher and did zero counseling, just collected our cards. We received a note designating which of the city colleges we could attend: (High grades CCNY, lower end and it's Brooklyn college, and so forth."</p>
<p>Our GC's when I was in high school eons ago were much more dedicated to the non-college track kids. If you didn't have a drug problem, pregnant, or in trouble with the police, they didn't have time or energy for you. We got zero help with planning for college. About the closest thing to planning for post-high school life were the frequent military recruiter days.</p>
<p>We even had an issue with my D's GC in a good suburban Austin high school. Before her 9th grade year, we were considering sending her to a private school for the academic enrichment, and I called the counselor to see if she would meet with me to give me the scoop on their academic program. She said, "well, I usually don't do that for parents, but I guess this is a special case". I didn't bother with the meeting and we ended up enrolling D in a public magnet school.</p>
<p>
[quote]
If it wasn't an insult to metal bands I'd say he should quit and play bass in one.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>This is the funniest thing I've heard all day :D</p>
<p>What a great story Bill! Not about the loser GC, but about your actions to help your son. I agree that you should complain as the GC is no doubt doing the same to other kids :(</p>
<p>I have mixed feelings about the GCs at my sons' HS. My S who is a junior is doing really well academically (and in athletics too). I spoke w/ the college GC at the school for about an hour a few weeks ago and she was helpful about some issues, but I don't think knew too much about schools east of the Miss. </p>
<p>However, I have another son who is a freshman and although he does well gpa-wise, he is not as focused and determined as the older son (not trying to be val or salut). He is also an Alex Lifeson-wannabe and I hope he doesn't have any bad experiences with a GC. One thing I've learned since finding this forum is you really have to be an advocate for your own child. Many kids don't even know where to begin in college searching, and if the GC is discouraging, then the parents absolutely must act!</p>