Your GC may be steering you wrong

Parents Forum
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<p>Bill, your wonderful story truly illustrates the power of positive thinking and the importance of following the path that you know is right for you and your family. Your son will never forget how his parents believed in him and made a real difference in his life! No guidance counselor who relies on a couple of numbers (GPA and a standardized test score), can understand a child's capabilities or comprehend his interests and personality the way that a parent can. Your son sounds like one interesting young man who isn't the product of a cookie-cutter, groomed-for-success upbringing. The thought of what he may do in the future brings a smile to my face! But he was also very lucky to have a caring family who went to bat for him. For that reason, I think that you would be doing the other students at his school a disservice if you did not report his GC's callous behavior to the administration. There are many young people who would just accept a negative assessment by a GC and never get the opportunity to reach their full potential. </p>

<p>Best of luck to your son!</p>

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<p>Bill I just loved this post.</p>

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<p>This happened to me when I was back in high school. My guidance counselor looked at my GPA, test scores and popularity in school. He said I could only attend a Tier-Two university or liberal arts college. Boy, was he wrong!</p>

<p><-- Northwestern University sophomore</p>

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<p>yea I had a friend who had a 66average... yeap with a 1380 on the SATs. The college counselor told him "you can't get in Baruch with that GPA." well, he DID get in and he dance his a$s off in front of the college counselor to prove it.</p>

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<p>Thanks for all the kind words, I would like to think we were the only parents dealing with this nonsense but sadly we are not</p>

<p>I am not good at summarizing so please bear with my rambling replies.</p>

<pre><code>In my orginal post I was beating up on the GC pretty bad, However I suspect he may be following district policy, I don't excuse him because I still have this silly romantic notion that someone in a position of trust should be "doing the right thing" . The real problem I suspect is district policy. Here like in most high growth suburban areas familes often choose thier place of residence based on the quality of the school districts.

I know the state (NY)collects data and possibly other organizations and agencies also collect data and perhaps some of this data is combined to rank districts. My vast chicken wing conspiracy theory is that the district may be playing with the numbers. Perhaps there is some negative ranking applied to school districts that have a high number of rejections from top colleges or students who apply to 4 year colleges with a lower GPA or SAT?

We are not the only parents who have had issues with the guidance dept at our HS. One girl who is a friend of my son and her twin sister was shipped off on the short bus to alternative HS ( BOCES in NY) this girl is a very talented in visual arts. Her GC ( not the same as my son's) had her parents convinced she and her sister could not get into a 4 year college either. Her sister went to CC and she went to work in a grocery store. My wife convinced her to apply to art school on her own and helped her through the application process. She got accepted to art schools in NYC and a well known one (Barnum?) in Sarasota Fl. Her parents were floored. Now her twin sister who has been in CC the past year is also applying to 4 year colleges. These two girls' grades were worse than my son's. ( C's I think)

I didn't mention in my orginal post that my wife is a public school teacher. She teaches a class for the multiply disabled in another (poorer) school district. The guidance office in that district was a big help for us. they were giving my wife advice and access to materials and resources that our own district was not making available to us. Monday morning when vacation is over I suspect my wife will be delivering flowers and chocolate to the guidance office at her school.
</code></pre>

<p>Several of you suggested that we go to the local school board with our story. We haven't decided exactly what action we will take, But we will wait till after our kid steps out their door for the last time to take any action. We both are torn between pursuing this to save the world and<br>
just saying "f" it and enjoying life and our son's progression through college. If I could do something positive I would work to encourage more 2nd and third tier LAC's to show up at High school college fairs instead of just Ivy's ,first tier colleges and ROTC.
On the other hand, If someone reads this thread and it helps them out I'm satisfied enough</p>

<p>Someone asked about the schools my son was accepted to. he got into : UC Boulder, U-Mass, U-Vermont, Bennington College and Sarah Lawrence college.
Bennington and U-Vermont I think were safeties. Sarah Lawrence College was the biggest reach and turned out to be his "easter egg" when he discovered that SLC was a far better choice in his area of interest than the school he really hoped to get in which was Wesleyan(CT) </p>

<p>Bill</p>

<p>PS You can trust me when I say the Metal world is breathing a collective sigh of relief that my son has giving up the electric bass and is headed to college. Unfortunately he has switched to trumpet and Miles Davis is spinning in his grave. I was just beginning to like Rob Zombie...........</p>

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<p>I would suggest sending a letter to the counseler with a cc to the principal. Just state the facts. No need to editorialize, what happened is apparent. No accusations. No being mad. Maybe just some suggestions for future kids. Some ideas they can work with. I have learned that if you do it that way, the suggestions won't be rejected outright. The GC may be overworked, clueless, or incompenent. Just telling your story as you did may open his/her eyes. It can't hurt, and if it is done right, nothing AWFUL will happen to the GC, but you might feel better knowing you tried to help other kids.</p>

<p>You will feel better, the counselor and the principal will learn something and you can close that door.</p>

<p>I have some stuff at my Ds junior high. I have been writing a letter for two years know (can't say much as the teachers write these ultra important recommendation letters for high schools). The writing of the tome has kept me sane and from going to the school with a protest sign and loudspeaker. On the first day my D is in high school, I will mail the letters. Just saying what I found lacking and some ideas to make it better. Whatever happens after that I don't care, but maybe something will change for somebody down the line.</p>

<p>ps- CONGRATS!! My other D is a sophmore and is interested in SL, so keep us posted.</p>

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<p>Bill, that's a fantastic story, and congrats to you, your wife and your son.</p>

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<p>Bill,
in the GC's defense, he probably gets beat up pretty badly when parents spend 'good money' on apps and don't get into the schools. This ends up with the GC only suggesting drop dead safeties. Support from the principal to the guidance staff could help matters, perhaps. </p>

<p>BTW, once my kid is out of HS, diploma in hand, I will be attending school board meetings. There are soon kinds of fun money just can't buy. And, hey, we're be paying for college - and will need a cheap date!</p>

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<p>
[quote]
I swear I am not making this crap up

[/quote]
I wish you were, but I know you're not. Your post actually made me angry at this unnamed GC. Grrrrrrr.........</p>

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<p>Never, EVER listen when a Guidance Counselor tells you that your son/daughter can't get into a top school if your gut tells you otherwise. If you feel (that is, if you feel in earnest and without rose-tinted glasses) that your child belongs at a top school, then there's absolutely no reason to think otherwise.</p>

<p>I'm currently a freshman at Columbia University, which was my first choice. My Guidance Counselor told me that I could "maybe" get into a school like Haverford or Franklin & Marshall, which are certainly good schools, but I felt that I could get in to better schools.</p>

<p>My GPA was B/B+ and I got into Columbia. I had lots of other things besides a GPA, but the fact is that Guidance Counselors often overestimate Colleges at the expense of underestimated students.</p>

<p>I went to two high schools for two years each due to my family moving and my GC at each school, who each acknowledged that I was "intellectual" and "good," or whatever, also seemed to think that my relatively care-free, even cavalier, at times, attitude meant that top schools would be uninterested.</p>

<p>Don't listen. Go with your gut and, cliche as it is, you can do anything.</p>

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<p>No kidding. I'd go even farther and say that unless the application fees are too burdensome, apply to your dream schools even if YOU think you have no chance.</p>

<p>My guidance counselor (expensive private school) thought I was beyond foolish, bordering on masochistic, to apply to Harvard a third time after two rejections. He said he didn't even think they'd read the app this time. My parents agreed with the GC and tried to change my mind. But I figured, I'm already going through all this rigamarole for six other transfer schools...might as well send it all to my real first choice one last time. You might say that it turned out well.</p>

<p>Yeah, you probably won't get in somewhere, and that will hurt. But you'll know you did everything you could, and anyway, the whole point of the college process is to turn you into an adult, and dealing with disappointment is a big part of that. Don't let fear of rejection keep you from reaching.</p>

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<p>They can't accept you if you don't apply. You will never get in if you don't apply. </p>

<p>Sometimes people are really unhappy in their jobs. So they do it badly. I can't imagine that being a gc counselor would be fun if you didn't really want to do it. Some GC's really want to be there and you can tell. While others, its like a fallback job, and they resent being there.
Some are just so overloaded and burnt out, they do just enough to get throug the day. Some are fantastic and go beyond what is expected.</p>

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<p>At my school GC's dont know anything> and they dont care. There's only 5 of them and they serve a student body of over 2,000 kids. The good thing about them not caring is the let u take whatever classes u want. Consequently, there have been kids at our school whose schedules consisted of 2 periods of drama, 2 period of choir, some required core course and art-nothing academic. Also, these counselors only aim on getting kids into CSU (california state universities) or UC's. Mostly CSU's though because it's the easiest path. its frustrating sometimes with them..They don't know about out of state schools or private schools....they know nothing about what's the competitive schedule for colleges and often times dont even know the courses our high school offers.</p>

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<p>Bill, your story is amazing. Let me join in the round of congratulations to you and your wife for believing in your kid. And add another GC horror story: </p>

<p>A friend of my son's, without too much family help in her life, needed an adult to join her for a 15 min GC session at her "alternative" public high school. I was recruited. After about 12 minutes on the GC's health problems, the GC laughed at the dreams of this amazing girl and warned her not to apply to the least selective UC's because she didn't meet UC requirements. (How did this GC's student get to the 2nd semester of her junior year w/out knowing this?) Then we were dismissed. </p>

<p>30 min's of tears in my car later, we decided to hit the web. There we discovered the UC "admission by exception" program. </p>

<p>Today that kid is a senior @ Berkeley, w/ a healthy scholarship. </p>

<p>I can't end this without saying my two S's were blessed w/ dedicated, enthusiastic, supportive GCs in their public high school. These GCs are overworked and underpaid, and I'm eternally grateful for the objective help they've offered my kids. It breaks my heart that quality guidance isn't available to all kids.</p>

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<p>I agree that you shouldn't be aggressive towards the GC... The fact is, you've had a victory, and you shouldn't follow that up by bringing misery to someone else. E-mail or talk with the GC, and if he/she makes it clear that he/she is completely closed to your opinions, only then should you get the principal involved (to save future students)! If it turns out that there's some policy behind this whole thing, it doesn't sound like a very proactive one. No GC should say these kinds of things, policy or not. Especially not to a B-student. I'm a B student with C's and I haven't been rejected by any of 11 schools, all "top 50" LAC's and Uni's. It takes a progressive attitude- showing that you really want to learn.
Good job. :)</p>

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<p>When I was applying to law schools, my father asked if I thought about applying to Harvard. I said no, because I wouldn't get in. He said, "How do you know? What's the worst that can happen? They say no, and you spent $40. But they can't say yes if you don't ask." I applied to Harvard. No, I didn't get in, but I didn't have to spend one second thinking "what if." And since I wasn't expecting to go there anyway, the rejection didn't really hurt (a momentary pang, that's all). </p>

<p>When my dd is checking out colleges next year, that will be my mantra: What's the worst that can happen? They say no. And you're no worse off than you were before you applied. But they can't say yes unless you ask.</p>

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<p>Some people ( actually everyone we know) thought we were insane to have our S apply to 19 colleges.We spent about $1200 on the apps. My wife as always saw the bigger picture. Her philosophy was: one, he will get a crash course in dealing with rejection, secondly but more importantly he will have the experince of the 19 interviews to learn how to effectively interview.
When I went with my s this week to interview the Philosophy dept chairs at the colleges he was admitted to, he let me stay with him for a couple of the interviews, I was floored how a punk looking kid who used to look at the floor and mumble obscenities was now talking eye to eye with PHD's at thier level and extracting information from them they were clearly not accustomed to giving to students.<br>
Call it a "Sylvan moment"</p>

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<p>I too was told at one point by a GC when I showed him the list of schools that I was considering that I should also think about some community and junior colleges. Lets just say I'm a very short tempered person and I don't take crap from anyone! Also, he left my h.s at the end of that same year (jr. year).</p>

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<p>Congratulations! It's a great thing you and your wife didn't listen to your S's GC. My D's GC was the same way. Went out of the way to make sure my D missed PSEO classe sign up at our local college. We confronted she said she didn't believe in high school kids attending college and too bad. Then, I couldn't believe it, since her semester was screwed up by the missing classes, GC said the only place they could put her was in study hall because all other classes were full! We have blocked semesters, only 4 classes a day! That would almost be an all day study hall! Needless to say, I went over her head and had some things juggled around, changed to another GC and got much better advice. She complained to administration about the move and then told my daughter she would never get into any "good" schools. D got into all 6 colleges she applied to, got merit money and is very happy. I'm glad we didn't listen to GC and that we did all the research ourselves. Luckily, my D never took the GC's words to heart. Now, GC walks around and brags as if she's the one who helped her get in. I wonder why schools put up with these kind of people, it's heartbreaking to know there are students who lose out because of people like her.</p>

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<p>I have a story to share on this.</p>

<p>I have a very nice guidance counselor, who is generally as helpful as she can be and bends the rules for me, discussing with AP teachers classes I can take before I should be allowed to. She's a great counselor. However, recently I was absent for a long period of time due to an illness that required a 3 surgery process to fix.</p>

<p>I came back with 4 finals to make up, one of which was a new topic (computer programming) that was easy to forget under my circumstance. She told me I should drop the Honors credit, and opt out of the final and take a 70. I had originally had this discussion with her and explained that I had never made below an 80 in my life, and had rarely been in the mid B range even. She still persistently discouraged me from taking the final. I still took it, the advanced final, got an 88 and an 87 in the class.</p>

<p>Counselors are great for the help they provide, and the knowledge they have that we may not; however, they more often than not, have their faults.</p>