<p>HAHA - I STILL THINK THIS gc DESERVES A PERMENANT WOOPY CUSHION AND THE SUPER GLUE TREATMENT!!!</p>
<p>A school district policy ?? that degrades and does not support it's students needs to be changed - what hogwash!! IMHO!! :)</p>
<p>BMOY - I still congratulate you on your patience and perseverence - great job - and CONGRATS to your son.</p>
<p>Another story:</p>
<p>My friend is an absolute violin GENIUS. He has like a B average, but he's in a math/science magnet program, and he got like a 1210 on his SATs.</p>
<p>And his counselor told him he couldn't get into anywhere except Kennesaw State (a local community college).</p>
<p>Now it's months later. He was pretty nervous about college--he was pretty sure he wasn't going to get in anywhere--and guess what. He got into Juilliard, Clevelend, Northwestern, USC and Georgia Tech.</p>
<p>Yep.</p>
<p>echo--we might be twins although I am an architect with my own practice. I do have heaps of female scientist friends though, for some odd reason...</p>
<p>My GC, circa 1975, all-girl school, told ME that girls weren't allowed into architecture school. She wanted to talk about my boyfriends.</p>
<p>End of my conversations with her. Did I ever get her recommendations? <strong>memory fogs over</strong> </p>
<p>I did the whole process myself which may account for the August date of my rescue from the waitlist! :) It turned out that there weren't very MANY girls in the architecture school--which didn't bother me a bit. ;)</p>
<p>My Ss do not have GCs. That's an American concept. His teacher recommendation was one line: ""X" is not expected to do well on his Bursary exams." (He got an A overall, a B in that guys' class. Go figure. And this after we gave him the "Americans want to hear something that sounds like advertising!" speech.). Not only did he not give a soft sell, he specualted that S would fail! Crikey!</p>
<p>
<p>We were visiting friends in SLC a few year's ago and happened to pick up a Deseret,which I understand is an edition of the local paper for the LDS readers. I was reading along when an obit photo of a pretty gnarly fellow caught my eye. I'll do my best to be accurate. [quote] Billy Joe "One Eye" Jeffcoat went to be with our Lord January 1st, 2002 after getting a bad batch of "black tar" heroin. He will be greatly missed.
Maybe the obit writer teaches at your S's school. I see elements of style in common.</p>
<p>That GC deserves to be fired. You should complain to the administration, superintendant, school board, etc - anyone who will (or won't) listen. Kids whose parents blindly believe the counselors could really get screwed in a situation like this.</p>
<p>I'm a junior, mine isn't that bad, but I still don't trust a damned thing they say and research everything myself.</p>
<p>Dear David, you're young, so you haven't been fired yet and have no idea how devastating it can be. It's a rough world out there, full of mortages and bills and dependents. NEVER advocate firing someone until you fully understand the situation. Complain, yes. If you're the boss, see to it that the guilty party gets a chance to explain and to change his behavior. If things don't change, THEN fire the doofus. </p>
<p>Don't go around yelling "off with his head" until that's truly the only solution.</p>
<p>If the situation is truly as the original poster said, the guy should be fired.</p>
<p>He did this to one kid:</p>
<p>-saying a 83 avg isn't sufficient to go to a college
-initially refusing to allow student to take college program courses
-"taunting" him (this is a weak one, but the OP didn't really give much detail on what it was)
-refusing rec for harvard ssp after the kid successfully completed the local college's courses
-after all this, STILL insisting that they should go to a community college</p>
<p>I'm sure this isn't an isolated situation, either. What about the kids who do not have strong parental support like the original poster is providing? What about the kids who when repeatedly told "you can't go to college" by a counselor actually believe it? They are getting screwed big time - their entire lives may be different because of what this counselor is doing.</p>
<p>It's not like the counselor would be fired based on one parent's complaint. He or she would have a chance to tell his or her side of the story. But if what the original poster said is true, the counselor should be fired.</p>
<p>Susu, your point is a bit irrelevant, seeing as how we cannot go talk to this guidance counselor, all except the OP.</p>
<p>I believe in evaluating a case before firing someone, but this person seems to not be a very good counselor. Besides, it's not like one complaint or opinion would get the counselor fired. If the OP complained then it would be added to the counselor's already begun list of complaints, or his or her newly started list of complaints. If there had already been enough then I think the counselor should be fired, if this is the first one then no.</p>
<p>I have been reading this thread with interest, but since I was on a college visit trip, I couldn't post. SO...here goes. As you all may remember, I had a huge issue with the GPA calculation at our HS. The bottom line is it got changed, but if I hadn't done some research, sent some compelling letters to the superintendent, principal and head of guidance, this might not have happened. My advice is to write a letter simply stating the facts...no opinion....just what happened. I think your story speaks for itself. I will say, however, you are not alone when dealing with incompetent GCs. I'm beginning to wonder if all the GCs learn these incompetency skills in GC school. My feeling about the GCs...if you want something done right, do it yourself.</p>
<p>My GC was not too bad, after reading some of your horror stories, but she did not seem to know what I was involved with in school (i.e. my ECs). Here, it is important to note that my school is a small private school (56 seniors this year) with 2 GC's. She also did not seem to be happy for me when I received good grades/SATs/college acceptances. In general, she gave the impression of being too busy to deal with me and was generally rude. Instead of advising me to apply to top-tier colleges, she suggested some state schools and lower-ranked colleges. My family and I had to navigate through the college process ourselves, which was tough, seeing as how it was our first time with American colleges (we're immigrants). However, I did end up getting into Yale, MIT, Columbia, Dartmouth, Brown, Williams, and others. If I had listened to my GC, I might be at a state school right now, instead of Yale - my dream school. My advice to everybody is to listen to your GC, but do your own research. This CC board was an excellent source of information as well.</p>
<p>The guidance counselor at the op's son's school should be FIRED. He/she is probably bitter because they graduated from community colleges themselves. Most guidance counselors obviously don't even know the meaning of GUIDANCE or COUNSELING as displayed in their actions towards students who are not SCHOLAR ATHLETES or VALEDICTORIANS. I can never forget my freshman year at my public high school...2.67 GPA, two misdemeanors, multiple suspensions. The guidance counselor laughed at me when I mentioned my aspiration to attend college. Not only that, this condescending GC's attitude trickled down to my teachers and therefore in class I was never considered seriously at all.</p>
<p>When I transfered to a different high school, my new guidance counselor was the extreme opposite of my old guidance counselor. Even looking at my GPA, misdemeanors, suspensions, right off the bat she told me about the UC's A-G requirements and the courses I should be taken to meet the requirements. The fact that I was on track to not even go to college didn't cause her to make condescending remarks. I couldn't believe my ears...she disregarded my past academic history as if she saw deep down into my soul and saw my potential to be a good student. She supported me throughout high school, congratulated me every step of the way...whether the accomplishment was big or small. I remember the end of that sophomore year, I had the highest GPA that year of the entire sophomore class. I didn't get into the schoolwide President's Honor Roll and I came in to the counseling office pretty sad that all that hard work and I couldn't even get into the honor roll. She told me, "Don't worry about it, if you keep it up you'll be in it next year." After my junior year she said, "Keep it up and by first quarter senior year you will have a 4.00 GPA."</p>
<p>Now I'm going to UCSD..a school I would never be at if I stayed at my first high school and took to heart the advice of my first guidance counselor.</p>
<p>Until this thread, I never realized how important my second guidance counselor's simple support and encouragement was to my life. I'm definately going to have to buy some flowers and a thank you card. What frightens me though, is I really do believe that if my guidance counselor had no faith in me that day I registered for classes...I really don't think I would be where I am right now. High school freshman are so young, naive, and mendable to suggestion. One person's support can make the difference from high school dropout to college graduate. To the op and everyone who has been mistreated by a guidance counselor, write a letter to the school principal, the board of directors, city mayor, etc. You might be saving the futures of the next class of high school freshman.</p>
<br>
<blockquote> <p>Until this thread, I never realized how important my second guidance counselor's simple support and encouragement was to my life. I'm definately going to have to buy some flowers and a thank you card. What frightens me though, is I really do believe that if my guidance counselor had no faith in me that day I registered for classes...I really don't think I would be where I am right now</p> </blockquote>
<br>
<p>Definitely don't let this slide. Sending a note of appreciation to GC #2 will make her year. My dad was a GC who specialized in truants and drug counseling. He had success stories of turning some of these kids around and having them go on to college and make something of their lives. I remember him getting calls on his birthday, etc. from some of these kids years later. He always told me that was what made his job worthwhile (it certainly wasn't the pay!)</p>
<p>I think all of this just emphasizes the importance of parents in encouraging high school students to succeed. Personally, my GC in high school STUNK! She only paid attention to the class valedictorian who got copies of all of the scholarship forms, got excused to go visit colleges, etc. My dad had to call her and chew her out for it. Even when she did bring me into her office she didn't do anything for me, telling me to apply to the local state school and community college. I definitely wasn't an underachiever...top 10, 98/100 GPA, national debater...but I didn't get any help from her. The teachers weren't much better...just go to the local school they all said. Imagine all of their surprise when I applied and got accepted to Rice, Stanford, Georgetown, and Baylor. Now I'm finishing my undergrad and preparing for grad school at Harvard Kennedy...straight outta college!! couldn't have done it without my parents! :0)
On another note, that same GC has since been replaced with an old family friend who invites me to speak at my old high school every year to encourage the seniors to explore all of their options...even the ones they're told aren't possible. I take it up everytime. Never forget where you came from...</p>
<p>In defense of knowing your place.
I'm not posting to defend the practices that have been relayed by previous posters on this site. They are clearly egregious. But I do want to serve as a warning reminder that our American can-do optimism often gets the better of us. Clearly, not everyone can be on top. Some people will simply have to go to a state school or CC. Some people would benefit from these. And many are simply thinking foolishly if they apply to a broad spread of top schools, completely disregarding safeties. They are shooting themselves in the foot.</p>
<p>The only thing that makes these success stories possible is the general apathy of everyone, so that some will overcome the barriers. But then again, posters on the board are a self-selecting group. Just realize that unbounded optimisim of this type, ipso facto, cannot be universal.</p>
<p>Not everyone can be "on top"...does that mean everyone else is underthem and not as good? We need to be careful how we phrase things, because it just feeds into the ivyfrenzy. </p>
<p>Just by shear volumne of applicants, the process IS a lottery for some of the most sought after schools. And just because a student didn't win that lottery, doesn't mean they are lessor students.</p>
<p>"In defense of knowing your place"- that is pretty harsh words....and a bit insulting....</p>
<p>I fully agree that "not everyone can be on top". BUT the GCs should be paying attention to ALL the students in their charge. At our school, the only ones who get any attention at all are those who are on top. And to be honest, that isn't always information that is helpful to the students. GCs, in my experience, need to do a much better job of serving their students, and YES their parents. Where I am, I wouldn't give you a nickel for all the GCs combined. Having said that, I do applaud all the good GCs out there...there certainly must be some...it's not an easy job, but I do feel it CAN be done well and that is why I am so frustrated that our school GCs do such a poor job.</p>
<p>Just about every student who is capable of graduating from high school CAN go to college if they are sufficiently motivated. Of course a "C" student is not Ivy material -- but this country is full of colleges that will accept them. If you get below the US News top 50 - you are looking at colleges that that accept most applicants -- and if you go below the top 100 colleges, then you are looking at colleges that pretty much accept anyone who is breathing.</p>
<p>The GC's job is not to tell students what they CAN'T do, but to help them get information and develop a plan as to how they can meet their goals. In some cases it might mean going to a CC first; in others it might mean expanding the array of college choices beyond the colleges listed in the Fiske or Princeton review guide. The colleges you never heard of are exactly the one GC's ought to know about. They ought to know about alternative paths to admission -- which colleges might waive SAT scores, for example -- or whether a student can "back door" their way into a fairly prestigious college by enrolling in extension courses. </p>
<p>That isn't a matter of creating false hopes. It's a matter of providing the information that students need to pursue their goals. The problem is that most people do high school as adolescents, and adolescents by nature don't always have very good judgment. So a lot of very smart people screw up in high school. Then they grow up. </p>
<p>A GC doesn't have to paint an overly rosy picture. It's fine if a GC says to a student that college A and college B are only going to admit students with excellent grades and test scores, but college C is more forgiving. The job of a counselor in any context is to help find solutions - NOT to tell people to give up.</p>
<p>I spent a few years restraining myself from asking my guidance counselor if she was so good at making descisions just why was she one.</p>
<p>Haha. Interesting coincidence. When I was a freshman I also had blue hair and a REALLY UNSUPPORTIVE GC (She's gone now, thank God!) During my frosh counseling meeting, she asked if I had a first choice school. I did--Harvard. She proceeded to laugh at me for a couple minutes, told me I wasn't going to score high enough ("because no one at KHS scores high, except for [person x] who has a 1520.") and recommended a CSU! My parents and I decided we'd have to go through the admissions process alone... (I think I discovered CC the day after that meeting. Heh.)</p>
<p>I will be in Cambridge next fall. ^_^</p>
<p>Mine isn't quite as bad as the one described, but she is still an idiot. She asked me which colleges I was looking at, and I told her I was going to visit Penn State soon. She responded by saying that I basically had no chance there, and I would basically have to get straight A's until I graduate in order to get in. I have a 3.0 unweighted (3.4 weighted) and a 1290 old SAT (1930 new). Of the 133 students to apply to Penn State from my school in the past 3 years, 11 have been rejected, 11 have withdrawn their applications, 5 have been guaranteed transfer, and 6 did not report what happened. The other 92 were accepted. The best applicant to be rejected had a 3.4 average and a 1240 SAT, the others include someone with a 2.4 and an 1140. Factor in a shining review from a teacher who is a Penn State grad, and I am in.</p>