Back to the thread’s title. My gifted son was young when he started college- nearly 17. He had the 2400 SAT, plenty of APs, but not perfect grades in HS (nor college- never worth it to him). His dream school was MIT, which he did not get into- perhaps fortunately given the suicide rate there I just read about. We have a top flagship so he went there (not worth spending more on so many lesser private schools and couldn’t get son to apply to other elite schools) and majored in math, honors (around top 15 math grad school- he took some of those courses for his honors reqs). He overreached for grad schools (brutal competition for math, btw) and decided to not graduate (2 weeks beforehand) and instead added the courses to finish the second major in computer science with his 5th year of college. He therefore was only one grade ahead instead of two. Debt free because H and I translated our educations into well paying jobs (physicians- I had a lot of debt eons ago). Plus much cheaper than we would have spent for private colleges.
Son chose to work instead of reapplying to grad schools. Got his first job after graduation in college city with a company (nationally known in its field) as a software developer. He chose to start asap instead of waiting a month and having a few weeks vacation time. A good first job to become more proficient in the field and learn the realities of working. Two years later he was head hunted just before he was going to search for a different job and now makes even more money at one of the top companies for computer science grads- title became software engineer and he got a promotion to level two last fall. H and I were disappointed he did not pursue grad school but given that even STEM PhDs do not always land good jobs he could be better off this way. He seems satisfied with his peer group and is being challenged mentally- a huge plus. Frugal son doesn’t spend as much as he easily could either. Strange how I had no money at his age and now that son stands to inherit ours he doesn’t need it.
He’s only 25 and it will be interesting to see if he chooses to add any degrees since he eventually wants to do more theoretical work within the field. I figure he’ll decide by the time he’s 30. He happens to like a field that is highly compensated (no way did he have any interest in his parents’ fields). I love post #11’s comment “…education, not return on investment” statement. We do not think like business people, there are too many intangibles that make a life richer than just income/money spent. Oh- girlfriends? Perhaps years later, like his parents.
I also like the being where one is supposed to be comment from a poster’s mother. We all have dreams for our children but finally have to let go and realize it is THEIR, not our, dreams that count. Life has its disappointments, even for top students, but that’s reality. I have a more gifted than I am college friend who went as far as a masters (computer science after chemistry undergrad) unlike the rest of our group who got doctorates of some kind. She seems happy decades later. Being a top HS student does not mean automatically being formally highly educated. People like my friend and son easily spent time learning so much beyond college work.
laralei, see my post #85 for a good description of “poor but happy”. The family I reference isn’t poverty level, but they’re certainly poor compared to the way many on CC live. This family may never have the things that many of us deem “necessary”, but they have the happiest lives I’ve ever been privileged to witness.
FWIW, H and I are not high income either. We’re not full pay, and costs are going to figure prominently in D’s college choice.But if D decides later that she’d rather work in a field not part of her college education, we’ll hardly feel like we’ve lost our “ROI”. No education is ever wasted.
Someone may be “poor” by looking at his/her income level compared to the overall distribution in the country, but may not feel “poor” because s/he does not have expensive tastes and habits and therefore lives comfortably below his/her income without feeling deprived and without feeling like s/he is on the edge of personal financial disaster.
The opposite situation seems to be discussed more often around here, where someone has a very high income (of the kind that won’t get financial aid at any college), but complains about the high cost of living, taxes, etc. so that they feel “poor”.
Yes, ucb, exactly. The family I wrote about doesn’t buy new cars and does most basic upkeep themselves. They don’t travel all over the place, they don’t eat at fancy restaurants, they don’t shop at exclusive boutiques, employ maids or house managers. They just live a quiet life doing inexpensive hobbies and enjoying their time together and with their many, many friends. I think that’s more than a lot of people have.
“Poor but happy” is fine in your 20’s and even 30’s and for this family you know sseamom.
I remember the days when my living room side table was a tree stump and I had a book shelf made of cinder blocks and pieces of wood. Loved driving old cars that you prayed would not need any major repairs, lol That stuff gets very old as we get older. At least for me.
I am a different person than I was in my 20’s. I am glad that my education and degrees allow me to live differently than I did when I was in my 20’s.
What I want for my kids are to be independent, have good benefits and be happy. And to also be able to move beyond the living with “tree stump” furniture stage. Just not sure this is going to happen with S. (Remember, OP here)
OP- I see where you are coming from… but I’m not sure that I understand how you’ve correlated your son’s “tree stump” state of life with the educational choices he’s made (or were made for him). There are plenty of people living an upper middle class life who had worse academic records than your son. I worked for a man a long time ago who barely graduated from a no-name directional state U with a degree in underwater basket weaving who out-earned his “spiffy degree” friends and colleagues by a significant margin. He probably had undiagnosed learning disabilities- his path would have been different now. Back then he was just thought of as dumb.
But a winning personality; not so great with reading, writing or math. He started in business-to-business sales; clients loved him, he remembered names (asking someone how “George” was doing when they mentioned that they were leaving work early to take “George” to the vet) even when he wasn’t so great with trig or calculus.
I can appreciate how frustrating your son’s journey has been. But why is his current state even tied to his college choices? If HE is ready to move out, and realizes that there’s a gap between what he’s earning and what it would take to live independently, seems like you guys can develop an action plan now. Not rehash his GPA from several years ago…
Any chance there is a small studio apartment nearby where your son could move? It would be close enough for some assistance if needed, but would be independent from your place. Maybe that could be the first step…if HE feels he can handle this.
I agree with Blossom. Your son’s college costs, and choice of college are not the issue here. Your son is dealing with, possibly, a lifelong mental health issue. He needs to work with folks who can help him take the next step…including you and your family.
Are there resources in your area that he can access?
" Yes, ucb, exactly. The family I wrote about doesn’t buy new cars and does most basic upkeep themselves. They don’t travel all over the place, they don’t eat at fancy restaurants, they don’t shop at exclusive boutiques, employ maids or house managers. They just live a quiet life doing inexpensive hobbies and enjoying their time together and with their many, many friends. I think that’s more than a lot of people have. "
I guess another factor of CC, but this is how we and most of the people we know live, every day. I would never consider that a definition of “poor but happy”.
@sseamom@ucbalumnus My life is exactly as you describe in post 105, yet I am a high earner. I cannot stress enough the damaging effect of the fallacy and fantasy that lower income people have of higher income people.
Someone mentioned:
“Most parents want and expect (absent a disability) their kids to be self-supporting within a short time after graduation.”
and I have to disagree, mainly based on many cultures requiring unmarried children to directly take care of their parents by living with them. My parents as first-generation Americans welcomed their children home after college, and probably would have been hurt if they moved out. I got married right after college so I did not live at home.
It is also a HUGE financial benefit to live at home, and it also (in most cases) offers psychological stability, the comfort of familiar things when starting a career. I was able to get a house before age 30 because we waited to have kids and had two decent salaries. My siblings were able to do so because they lived at home for years before they married; none of their spouses had professional jobs; one was a hairdresser even though she had a four-year degree.
YMMV, I would welcome any of my kids to live at home after college. It would make sense for them financially, and it would comfort.
And did I mention that my first job out of college was making 25% of my salary as an engineering graduate should have been? Shot up after that, but just had to take a job for the time being.
We told our kids they could go wherever they were accepted, and we saved like crazy so they would have options. All chose StateU with full ride merit scholarships. Our oldest got an engineering degree last May and has a 6-figure job he likes, but doesn’t love. I suspect he may drop out of the “rat race” and go do what he loves for much less money one day. I don’t think he will ever regret his choice of major or college. But I think he already regrets working his tail off in college - wishing he had smelled a few more roses along the way.
But yalieboy and laralei, we are not talking about middle and upper income people who live simply and frugally. We are talking about lower income people who live the way they do out of necessity. People of high income don’t buy used cars and fix them up themselves out of necessity. They don’t forgo dinner out because the money isn’t there. They don’t skip international travel or yearly vacations or expensive EC’s for their kids because they can’t afford it. That may be how they KEEP their money, but it’s not because it isn’t there in the first place.
My post above was in response to the idea that one couldn’t wrap their brains around being “poor but happy”. I know people who are genuinely poor, but happy. The family I wrote about doesn’t HAVE the money for the things higher income families do, even if they choose not to buy them. Incomewise, they’re poor. But really, truly, they are the happiest people I know.
I’ve been poor but happy my whole life. Works fine for me and my family. My mom was had one of those dreaded bank teller jobs and managed to bring me up just fine
To each his/her own.
I’m always tickled at how many on CC are thrifty in the ways they can be. It’s a good thing. But that’s different than depending on parents for support, every day or routinely. We’re encouraging you, OP, to see what other services might exist to help DS. There may be help to explore other job options. If he’s happy with his work, then to help him gain some independence. It’s the “next step.”
I’m not advocating that a college grad live at home for the rest of his life (at some point due to demographic and actuarial reality, even a kid with significant deficits needs to transition). If the current situation is financial, then perhaps a career counselor can help figure out if this young man can work at a better paying job/career with better financial prospects long term. If the current situation is practical (mom gets him out of bed every day and makes sure he eats breakfast before work) then there might be workarounds- kid checks in with parents every night at 10 pm- alarm clock (or two or three) are set, breakfast is on the table absent the milk, etc. If the current situation is logistical (kid needs a car but can’t afford his own) then again- figure out the alternatives. An apartment close to work? Plenty of people rely on the bus to get to their jobs every day (mine all live in cities, rely on public transportation, none of them own cars).
Just saying that if the stumbling block is “We paid for an expensive degree and you blew it because of a bad GPA” that doesn’t reflect the reality of today’s employment market. Will he go from being a bank teller to running a division of Goldman Sachs next year? No. Can he go from being a bank teller to being a financial analyst at a credit card company? Maybe. Can he go from being a bank teller to being a claims analyst at an insurance company? Maybe. Can he advance from being a claims analyst to running a team of analysts? Absolutely.
I wouldn’t take today’s job and extrapolate into the future- unless there is evidence that the son has absolutely hit the wall professionally.
I’m reading these posts with great interest. I, too, know many families I consider “poor but happy”. Some here have mentioned how they live similarly but by choice - they have the money but still do not live extravagantly. That is where we fit. We live below our means.
The wonderful upside for our family is this: our kids will be able to live as well as they lived growing up on even a modest income. They can choose careers that do not pay well, and still live just like they are used to. I think they will be content as long as they can live comfortably. I think this gives them lots of options in life. On the other hand, we have friends who lived a more lavish lifestyle, and they are worried now that their son will never be happy living with less.
Being able to support oneself and choosing to live at home with your parents’ blessing are two different things. My S was able to support himself, yet he lived at home for about 16 months following graduation. It was convenient for him, I enjoyed having him around, and it enabled him to build a larger nest egg right out of school than living on his own. IMO there is nothing wrong with helping your kids post college if you have the means and inclination to do so.
The self supporting comment was in response to an earlier post regarding financial ROI. It was intended to clarify that although I don’t care if my kids’ degrees translate into lucrative jobs (a high financial ROI), I do expect them to be self supporting within a reasonable time after graduation.
