<p>Singer, you are starting to reveal a bit more about the backstory which makes your plight start to make some sense.</p>
<p>It is VERY difficult to be a nice and smart kid sandwiched between superstars. I’m starting to get why your son might have felt some pressure to doubledown on college credits while still in HS if he’s got a younger sister who is already in college and already doing research in a lab. I’m starting to understand why your son doesn’t feel he has permission to be a typical, undecided college sophomore who is taking a bunch of classes and will figure out his future when it all comes together.</p>
<p>Imagine being 19 and having a 16 year old sister who already knows she’s going to focus on metacognition. So his attention to his social life is possibly just a defense mechanism- he’s surrounded by people who either didn’t or won’t struggle with O-chem or what-not in the way he has. But have you unwittingly created a family culture where having a college sophomore who says, “I dunno” when neighbors ask him what he’s going to be when he grows up is just unacceptable?</p>
<p>“I dunno” is pretty typical. A kid who is motivated and directed enough to decide in HS that he’s going to become a pharmacist is what’s unusual. And if he’s not surrounded by other family members who take their time to explore different byways and pathways until they figure it out, his immediate reaction to not doing well in his program academically is to shut down.</p>
<p>Starting to feel for your kid. Can’t be easy having a bad GPA when your 16 year old sister has a 4.0.</p>
<p>Not poor baby-- but the story of a kid motivated enough to apply to and get accepted to an accelerated program who seems to be in denial about what it takes to graduate FROM the program (getting in is the easy part…) wasn’t making a lot of sense to me. I knew a lot of accelerated med school kids back in college. They worked like demons- mostly on their non-science courses, because they felt this was their only chance to explore history, art, literature, etc. before the grind kicked in. But they worked like demons- which is the quality required to get in and OUT of these direct admit programs! And get licensed and trained, and board certified, and so on…</p>
<p>If he loves the sciences, is there another program - neuroscience, biology, biochemistry…- that he’d like to try instead of pharmacy? Would he like to study other subjects for a while?
Would transferring be a possibility, even if it means not doing the accelerated pharmacy program? Look, right now, he’s not going to graduate from it and he’s likely lost his FA for next semester (year?), so transferring out to another university and another program where he gets a blank slate might be a better option for him?
it’s possible he’s always loved pharmacy in the abstract but now he doesn’t like it in reality and would like to find something else to do that deals with science but doesn’t dare admit it?
how does he analyze his problem - does he realize he has a problem or does he maintain it’s okay?
might he feel like a failure compared to his siblings, which would compound the problem?</p>
<p>Isn’t there always more to any story ? In our family we have all kinds of learners. The oldest took 11 years to earn a B.A. older sister worked like a dog, finished undergrad in 3 years, got great grades, went summers, never took the easy way out, M.A with honors The middle boy was not at all the college type, tried one semester at CC and washed out. he found a great technical program for auto technicians, this kid who barely earned D’s in college never had a score lower than 90%.on any of his tech school exams. he virtually did nothing but eat, go to school, and study, for 15 months. Graduated top of the class was recruited by BMW where he spent another 9 months training with near perfect scores and is now a very successful BMW tech. So the youngest S has seen it all, indecisive, hard working, unsuccessful, and gifted. The two middle boys are 19 months apart and very close.in a lot of ways. The older one really had high expectations for the Pharm student and has been pretty blunt and very vocal about his disappointment .I mention this just so it’s clear not everyone found their perfect calling and achieved right off the bat. </p>
<p>The one lesson I thought he would have learned from his sibs is that success at anything is the product hard work… </p>
<p>Thank you all. I have been struggling with my oldest, 23 yr old S going on his 6th year of Undergrad. Now his
21 yr old Brother is following in his footsteps. He doesn’t seem to see a 1.70 GPA, after having his suspension reinstated, as something to be too upset about. I think the posts above about taking a year off are good. The 23S took Spring 2014 off and worked while we saved up for the tuition, since the 4 years worth we had saved for was gone after 5 years. To both S’s credit they do work and go to school, but they DO live the College lifestyle. Decision has been made that both are on their own now. I no longer will try to monitor their College decisions, I am also going to look for a new car this weekend to replace my 12 year old car, since I no longer have to save towards tuition. Thanks for letting me see that others have the same problem.</p>
<p>So the verdict is in. Two days of meetings with the professors and the assistant Dean of Pharmacy. They are going to extend the program one year. This upcoming fall S will audit O chem 1 and work weekly with professor. he will retake Med Microbiology and he will add some business classes. The expectation at the school is for him to meet weekly with the assistant Dean who will monitor his progress. We understand that the Professors were very encouraging and willing to help.They all felt he was capable but needed to work harder and avail himself of additional learning opportunities.</p>
<p>I am happy with the outcome for three reasons. Before he went down he was very “dismissive” of professors office hours, it seems he never really tried to engage his profs and didn’t realize what a wonderful resource they can be, especially at a small private college. Second, I was deeply concerned about building on a foundation of sand. O chem is so fundamental to Pharm if you have considerable gaps in knowledge it will lead to poor performance going forward. So this gives him a chance to build on a solid foundation. Last is the opening of another academic field. If he finds his studies intriguing in business and sees that those courses “fit” him better he may be motivated to turn in that direction, or at least consider other options if he continues to struggles in Pharm.</p>
<p>This summer is going to be study skills boot camp at my house.The Mrs.and I really feel like we need to expose him to alternative study methodologies and a little bit of learning theory. So we have decided the three of us will identify a handful of skills ( time management, note taking, the “study, test, restudy” assessment model) and we will also work on Metacognitive awareness (accuracy of judgement of learning)</p>
<p>We are going to do this by using a MOOC course and giving him a chance to "test drive’ these new tools with us in the passenger seat. We also instituted a no partying or drinking policy during the week,and a curfew, in an attempt to clear out the party induced fog in his brain… I will update our progress as the summer unfolds.</p>
<p>Again my Wife and I really appreciate everyone who offered ideas and support. I hope this turns out well and ends up as an inspirational story. If not, then perhaps it can serve as a cautionary tale or just a reminder that parents experiencing the same thing are not alone. Thanks again </p>
<p>@Singersdad …I wish you all well. I think you are great parents, and I know you have to give him one more chance. If he fails, I truly understand the need to know you, as parents, did everything you could do. That will give you peace in making tough decisions if need be. If he flourishes, you will know that you can never go with any stone unturned when it comes to your kids.</p>
<p>I wonder if it might be better to have non-family members working with him, a coach for instance. At this age it can get dicey doing the kinds of interventions you are doing, with your own child, but every family is different.</p>
<p>I also wonder why your son is only considering vocational majors, so to speak. Would he ever consider just going to school and doing some distribution requirements and exploring possible majors as an undecided? Perhaps he needs that career goal to stay motivated, but at the same time, it seems to also be true that if it is the wrong one, and he clings to it to avoid uncertaintey, that motivation suffers. College major often does not correlate with career anyway. Just a thought.</p>
<p>I agree with @compmom – I think you are overly optimistic about the ‘boot camp’ approach of parents teaching him these skills. You have been trying to teach him these same things for years and it hasn’t worked. That dynamic might be very hard to change. You seem like a very optimistic person – and your son seems like he has been a master at evading building these skills over the years. I don’t see that dynamic changing easily at all. I agree that an outside coach may be a more effective approach. The program set up next fall at the college does seem promising.</p>
<p>I’d like to speak from experience with outside coaching. We tried one for a year in high school, she was highly recommended. She told me from the start that if this was not something DS was seeking on his own, it wouldn’t work. And it didn’t. She liked him, he liked her…but he never engaged or did all the wonderful suggestions and study skills she was trying to teach him. When I stepped in the 2nd semester college…he had to answer to me, and he knew it. Couldn’t just be that “nice, polite young man” that He is. Couldn’t pull any wool over our eyes. Singers son had to be held accountable. Seems like during the summer, it’s better if parents do it if they have the stamina…then give it over to the college come fall. I think they are doing the best thing. But I have to agree with you in that is a wonderful suggestion…coaching…only if the student is seeking it, not being made to do it.</p>
<p>I wonder myself if we are the right people to intervene. In this situation I hope he is motivated enough to make the most of our offer to help. I am under no illusion that he will. We have offered him the services of a post doc chemist who we know. He was not at all receptive to the idea. He may well be already falling off the “work hard” wagon. Only time will tell. @Dr Google that book you suggested sounds amazing we ordered it today.</p>
<p>Thank you all again for your good wishes and wonderful advice !</p>
<p>Remind him that if he can’t make it through the summer and Fall semester, he’ll have to stay home because he’ll have lost his chance at ONU, his scholarship, and his spot in the program but you’ll give him the chance to stay and home and work at a local job until he can register at community college and get back on his feet. (You can always ask him whether he’d like that better right away this Fall?)
Give him the choice of working with the postdoc chemist or with you, but not “alone” (= procrastination). This will help you understand what the problem is - time management, understanding concepts, processing information… Also, regardless of option chosen, he should have to show his day’s work each evening. Have deadlines. Etc. Just like for a job.
Oh, that book is GREAT. :)</p>
<p>Bottom line is that even if he should end up home and going to community college (not saying that will happen but…), many of us have a kid in that situation and it is not a disaster, can even be a relief, and ultimately lead to goals that better fit the kid. </p>