<p>Study more, party less. It isn’t all that complicted.</p>
<p>OP… he did not transfer (most academic problems, imho, just travel with us) and yes, he was monitored closely. Took a reduced classload which greatly lengthened his timeline. Had a part-time job which allowed him to remember that he is good at many things outside a classroom. For us, the withdrawal period was really helpful mainly because if nothing else, it arrested the downward spiral. It did, however, need to be at a pretty grim point for that to be his choice. </p>
<p>He has to be an active participant in solving his problem, but sometimes students need it narrowed down. Withdrawing or changing majors often seems catastrophic to them. And I wasn’t unfailingly patient, not at all, and made a lot of mistakes before we came through. (thinking that yelling, or more time, or different classes would help, for example). As someone here on CC said, don’t disasterize. </p>
<p>I think a year off would be a good idea. Not as punishment but as a reality check. He needs to really own his work, not just pass by the skin of his teeth. This program is only going to get harder and there is a requisite maturity that is clearly lacking. The good news is he has time. When he is 50, the year off he spent at 20 won’t matter. Sit down together and set goals and expectations for the year off. It’s okay to let him know you are disappointed in his performance, but that doesn’t mean you don’t love him and want to help. It’s just that right now, that help is not going to take the form of tuition money.</p>
<p>There actually is no test for ADHD, of any type (including what used to be called ADD) but a questionnaire for student and parents is often used, and you can find it online. It does sound like there is something going on to create that gap between ability and performance, and there are all kinds of possible explanations. Many students who have done well in high school (and with parental support) start having problems in college and then get diagnosed with a previously unrecognized learning disability or ADHD.</p>
<p>No offense, but picking such a narrowly focused, specific vocational major at age 18 can often create problems, and sometimes results from immaturity or lack of sophistication about both educational and career possibilities. It would be great if he could study what interests him along the way and go from there. Or maybe not go to college at all for awhile.</p>
<p>Some colleges do not allow a reduced load as they are “full time institutions”. </p>
<p>It is very difficult to know what will work for any given kid, so take the advice given here for what it is worth - which is not much in the real world, especially when you see the wide range of suggested action. . For greenbutton’s son, staying in school worked (and thank you Greenbutton for sharing your story).</p>
<p>For other kids, tough love with withdrawal from school and living at home with a menial job, did the trick. For still others, staying at the school with a renewed attitude or a change in major led to a turn around. And then there are those that leave college “for a year” and never go back. </p>
<p>Not every kid (or adult) has a passion (or at least one they support themselves with). It is OK if he doesn’t have a passion as long as he is willing to do the necessary work. l. It is still better to get a degree, even if it ends up in a useless major. </p>
<p>On the requirements for ADD is that has been present since childhood and that it significantly interferes with daily living. Please don’t suggest that every kid that flames out in college has ADD, with no other evidence. The OP mentions partying, not disorganization. Also, an ADD diagnosis does not solve many problems, especially for young adult.s </p>
<p>Well the reckoning finally came and as expected S proclaimed his unwavering work ethic, he even reviewed his notes weekly! I asked how he felt he did he told me it was “rough” he knew about O Chem but was blindsided by micro. After all to get a “D” he had to get a 50% or less on the final. And he studied really hard for 4 whole days ! I was blindsided when my wife showed me his midterm grades F in a pharm class (which he dropped) and D in O Chem so add a dropped while failing class to the list. Of the 17 credit hours attempted 7 earned credit.</p>
<p>S is shocked and as predicted, desperate to return and looking for ways to make that happen.</p>
<p>Today is face the music day as he is setting up meetings with the powers that be trying to make a plan going forward, Thank you all for your advice, I will report back</p>
<p>Thanks for the update. So I did some looking and answered some of my own questions.</p>
<p>Introductory Chemistry 1711 & 1721 10 semester hours
Organic Chemistry 2511/2551 & 2521/2561 8 semester hours
Introductory Biology 1201 4 semester hours
Anatomy/Histology BIOL 1341 & 1361 4 semester hours
Medical Microbiology BIOL 3131 3 semester hours
Bio Sci Lab 1- 3221 1 semester hour
Calculus/ Probability in Life Sciences 1471 3 semester hours
Statistics in Pharmacy 1761 3 semester hours
Physiology BIOL 3311 & 3321 8 semester hours </p>
<p>I am assuming he is at ONU 0-6 program and the above list is his required science core. After looking at it, it isn’t the same as majoring in biochem, or micro or bio or chem…</p>
<p>Other than the medical micro most look to be lower division/intro classes. Hmm that does make a difference, at least to me. The math looks to be a stats class rather than calc through def eq and not an upper chem or bio/genetics…rather a 3 unit biochem with no lab and immunology with no lab and 2 semesters of physiology with no lab.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.onu.edu/academics/the_rudolph_h_raabe_college_of_pharmacy/curriculum”>http://www.onu.edu/academics/the_rudolph_h_raabe_college_of_pharmacy/curriculum</a></p>
<p>What did he take for his gen ed classes this semester and last? Did he use any AP credits to fill up his schedule thereby making his classes with grades more important, ie no GEs to dilute the GPA?</p>
<p>His third year looks to be the most advanced science-wise BUT less labs and years 4 and 5 are pharmacy science modules with year 6 as rotations. I was under the impression there would be 2 more years of advanced biochem, micro and chem classes where there is not. Rather there are advanced pharm classes which might have more advanced chem but maybe more depth rather than advanced.</p>
<p>What GPA does he have to maintain to stay in the program? What grade did he receive in the O-chem lab? Does he just need to retake the Ochem lecture part?</p>
<p>Applied Sciences of Pharmacy PHBS 2901 This is the class I would be most concerned about since it is actual pharmacology…why was he doing so poorly in this class come midterms?</p>
<p>^^^^^This looks to be the first real in-depth pharmacy class he was exposed to compared to the 1 unit classes in the previous semesters.</p>
<p>Ask him about this and you might have an answer.</p>
<p>Hope this helps.</p>
<p>Kat</p>
<p>If he truly is studying as hard as he says, and this is the result, then this isn’t the right path for him. The subject matter will get more difficult, not easier. He just doesnt seem to have either the real interest or aptitude for this.</p>
<p>mom- not clear he’s studying all that hard. Cramming for four days before a final and reviewing notes weekly doesn’t sound like a successful work strategy to me.</p>
<p>But I agree with you 100% that if the subject isn’t interesting to him he will find it tough going as the work gets more demanding.</p>
<p>mom2and — my son did withdraw from school, that’s my point. He was out for little over a year, and then “returned” via a p/t, then eventually f/t classload. Withdrawing wasn’t “tough love” (which is usually just Man Are We Mad and Disappointed With You, Mister) it was just love. A decision made to protect his gpa, and his mental health, and our sanity. But not out of anger or any thought that you can discipline another adult into doing what you want.</p>
<p>Nobody can predict what will work for OP’s son. All you can do is try and figure out a sensible course, and correct as needed as you go. </p>
<p>Kat, he took calc and a few of the core requirements at Cleveland state while he was in high school 3 As and one B he got a C in organic Chem lab 1 and 2 asp is the class he withdrew from after failing to submit 3 online quizzes within the time allowed. Why? I have heard no sensible answer. My understanding is that biochem and physio are the two most difficult classes in the entire sequence. </p>
<p>And you are so right about the lack of dilution all the classes left are challenging there are no more lower division for him to take and to prop up a GPA he needs to do well in hard classes!</p>
<p>Blossom is right again about the studying. Not enough effort to do well in hard classes. Aside from using terrible technique, cramming instead of spaced study, no notes on prior test performance, only 6 visits to office hours for the semester. No way that will cut it.</p>
<p>Singer- big hug to you.</p>
<p>Perhaps a suggestion to your son would be to slow down. He did not need to show up at college already having taken core requirements at Cleveland State while still a HS student. He does not need to be in a direct admit/6 year professional program while still an undergrad. There are millions of people out there working in jobs which they didn’t even know existed when they were back in college. He could be one of them!</p>
<p>It might be that with so much already invested (college credits while in HS! So many science classes under his belt! Already admitted to professional school!) your son is just unable or unwilling to concede that his heart is just not in pharmacy right now. But there really are so many happy adults working in stimulating jobs, even some which are science related, who have NEVER taken Organic chemistry!</p>
<p>I hope the meetings with the powers that be are helpful to him. And hugs to you for what must surely be a week where you are earning your parenting badge…</p>
<p>Greenbutton, you have a great post. Since you have BTDT, maybe you could tell us how you approached your son with pulling back, his attitude, what you said, etc. That is a very difficult discussion to have to make and go through with. It would be beneficial to hear from someone who has done it.</p>
<p>"and as expected S proclaimed his unwavering work ethic, "</p>
<p>the kid thinks he is working hard. there seems to be a disconnect. He doesnt want to work as hard AS HE NEEDS TO to do well with this path.</p>
<p>the bottom line is that there has been a steady decline of his gpa (GPA went from 3 to 2.87 to 2.67 to 1.75).</p>
<p>If this were a fall frosh with a surprise low gpa, we would all be saying that many frosh arent yet used to college demands and that HS is often much easier. this kid has been “hit in the face” semester after semester and hasnt regrouped…which he would if this really was his bag.</p>
<p>S is driving to ONU tomorrow, meeting with profs for a heaping helping of reality and humble pie. I can’t wait to hear the cockamamie plan his academic advisor and he come up with. Hopefully there will be some real consideration of what might be best for the student. </p>
<p>What is he hoping to get from meeting the profs? </p>
<p>I had no idea it was even possible to have THAT good a time in Ada. Good luck to your son with his meetings tomorrow. Here’s hoping he realizes he’s running out of strikes in this at bat. </p>
<p>@Michigangeorgia he is talking with profs for two reasons. Most importantly to identify and take responsibility for the things he did not learn. He is also seeking advice on how he may do better when he retakes the class if he does.</p>
<p>Are you at all concerned that what he “reports back” will not be the full story? How are you planning on dealing with that?</p>
<p>Great point @tempemom , I think the old Ronald Reagan plan “trust but verity” would be appropriate. It sounds reasonable, at least to me, to let him see what he finds out. Still we will be right there with the hook if he starts talking nonsense. Mom has more faith than I do that he has really learned a lesson. I would say time tells the tale. I am looking for some serious demonstration of his commitment to academic reform. One of the most Ironic things is that our youngest is a researcher in the field of Metacognition and learning. Her lab and more specifically her PI coach professors on how to most effectively teach and help students learn. but it is really unsavory to have your 16 y/o 4.0 GPA college student little sister teach you how to study successfully… Truth is, the older ones have tried as well to no avail. I have faith that things will work out as they should.</p>