<p>Bunsen, I love your post.</p>
<p>Downtoearth I know about being accepted to a good school but not being able to pay…that is the case with me and Emory.</p>
<p>Bunsen - H and I have been saying this all along - we got a 30% to 50% discount on his tuition - sheer luck due to timing in cashing stocks before he turned 18.</p>
<p>The financial decisions made impact my children more than us. We told them that if they saved us money through scholarships they could keep 80%, we would keep 20%. We payed full freight for 2 private schools. Son #1 who appears to be able to live on virtually no money never articulated regrets for not taking the money (it would have meant about 60,000 in his pocket at graduation). Son #2 mentioned that in retrospect he can see that there could have been advantages of the school that offered him 35,000/year and an honors program- but he only mentions the advantages of the location of the school, not of the money (which would have meant 110,000 in his pocket at graduation).</p>
<p>BUT, these decisions were made 4 and 5 years ago. Our financial situation has not changed much in the interim(except for 400,000 shelled out for schools!) - mostly good luck, but the future for our children does look different, at least in the short term. I have a feeling that if the decisions were being made now, the money considerations might have had a deeper play for them both. We left the decision entirely to them then.</p>
<p>In other words, you have to make the choice for the time you are in, and mindful of the lives our children will be actually leading…</p>
<p>As for the transforming, I am tossing out my crystal ball. We went 50-50.</p>
<p>Well, honestly I don’t know where you guys are getting all this money. We had to put ourselves through college and pay off our loans. We bought our first house all on our own in a higher cost of living area of the country than we would have liked.We lived simply and never really had that much “extra” to save. </p>
<p>My son is finishing up his third year in college. Paid Research, great $$$ internship at fortune 500, published paper, an awesome EC that took him all over the country compliments of his school and now Phi Beta Kappa. He is at his safety …fully funded by his dept. He could have chosen pricey privates and we would have paid but it would have severely impacted all of our lifestyles for the years to come. </p>
<p>My point is he didn’t need the dream school to do well. He will go on to a top grad school like the other graduates of his program do. . That will also be paid for by that program. He has had more opportunities than he has had the time to take advantage of. He will graduate without loans, donate heavily to his school and we will be financially sound.
Win/Win.</p>
<p>There are many more brillant people doing brillant, meaningful research/work in this world than can fit into your dream colleges/ positions. He is just one of these guys.</p>
<p>The only reason I share is that 3 yrs ago we were also in the middle of April trying to figure out if $200,000 would buy him something more. I think he has done great.</p>
<p>The OP asks,"Are these highly selective schools worth it??? "</p>
<p>Response: I am with Menloparkmom, NO!</p>
<p>I would take the same 200K and save up for a house and wedding and still have money left over! There are PLENTY of great schools where your kid will get a great education without having to spend that kind of money. It is the height of hubris to think that only ivy schools and top LACs can provide the only intellectual challange and the only high caliber kids. I can assure you that good state universities are just as up to the task and so are many other good schools.</p>
<p>I feel like the cursed ancient greek who could foretell the future but was cursed with having no one believe him.</p>
<p>sax…congrats on your son’s happy undergrad career…he sounds like an extremely productive young man! with graduate school plans he earned by his fine choices.</p>
<p>Taxguy. I believe you! I’d even go further and say that with the glut of PhDs out there, many community colleges offer fantastic educations to start with, as well. At a good cost. I’m not even saying there’s not a trade-off. There are solid social reasons to go to a state school and live there, and it is affordable to do. Escpecially for high GPA kids with good scores who are really in demand at these institutions the parents are already paying for through their tax dollars.</p>
<p>Go on the school website and look at the degrees the faculty have. You’ll be pleasantly surprised at the caliber of education your tax dollars are already paying for at a State U. Plus, there are so many agreements between states, you are rarely even confined to the schools in your own state. It really is the best deal going.</p>
<p>We spent the full tuition cost on an ultra-selective, top of the heap LAC for DS#1. We felt that the intellectual challenge/rigor the school is known for was the right formula for him. He was offered full rides to OOS large universities and they were never a consideration. Where he went for undergrad was absolutely the right fit for him. He is an absolutely brilliant kid (I am no longer embarrassed to say that) and needed the intellectual atmosphere the LAC provided. He did well enough there to be accepted into a Top 5 program for his Ph.D. The undergrad institution DID matter in terms of being accepted into grad school, just as his grad school will have a good deal of influence on where he gets his first teaching position. He is fully funded by the grad school and we pay no more $$ for his education.</p>
<p>I understand and respect the opinions of those who believe that these kinds of students will find a school full of their peers at large state universities with much cheaper tuition. I just don’t happen to agree.</p>
<p>No, they are not. It simply does not make sense to spend all the money on the undergrad degree when, as you noted, grad school is most likely in the future.</p>
<p>I felt conflicted about this until my FIL and BIL ran the numbers for us. Both of them have their MBA from Harvard and are very successful. Believe me, they will spend money to make money but undergrad degrees are not in that catagory. If the LACs were the only places that grad schools accepted students from, that would be one thing. But they are not. </p>
<p>Our list now consists only of state u. honors programs and schools that my son would have a reasonable chance at a large amount of merit money. His scores would give him a reasonable shot at several of the Ivies but they don’t give merit aid, so that’s out. So I’m not just speculating about your child, it’s the approach I am taking with my own child as well. Taxguy said it very well:</p>
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<p>I forgot to add that the school my BIL got his BA at is one that many of the “my child is too brilliant to attend the the good grad schools don’t take seriously” would scoff at. Not only did Harvard accept him for their MBA program, he gratuated way ahead of many of the “brilliant” students whose minds could only be educated among the other elites.</p>
<p>Mom of 3 sons. I don’t disagree with your right to spend your money any way you want! Absolutely. So, does your son find in his graduate program that all of his peers are from these schools? Or does he find that many of them come from State University honors programs or full rides at LAC’s? This is a genuine question. I’m curious. I know that the school simply does not matter to Law Schools, Med schools or MBA schools…which are all full pay. I assume, as your son is on a fellowship, that he is in the humanities or pure math??? I wonder if it is worth it in those cases?</p>
<p>This is an excellent question, poetgrl, and I will ask him. He is in the social sciences. He did go straight from undergrad to grad school, and I know that he is in a tiny minority in his program in that regard. I am sure that he is “the baby” of his class. 
I believe that coming from his particular undergrad institution, graduating with high honors and having outstanding GRE scores allowed him to be accepted straight from undergrad, without having any “real world” experience. But I will ask him if he knows where his “cohort” group did their undergrad work.</p>
<p>I can tell you that our state honors grads go on to MIT, Harvard law/med/, Duke med/ Cornell, Yale, Stanford etc. Certainly not in the numbers that those schools send their own grads but they do get in and graduate with the same degree.</p>
<p>When we were making our $200,000 decision I wanted facts. Now I have some. That’s all I’m trying to do here. Facts for those trying to choose.</p>
<p>My daughter posed this question to a “professional” in her field. Cheaper U or more bucks named school. The “professional” said no choice pick the named school. Those professors had “relationships” with the professors at great graduate schools and could give a recommend to the student into the right graduate programs. I offer this up for the discussion. I don’t know if it’s true. Kind of hope its not but…</p>
<p>Please keep in mind that your outcomes at grad schools depend on the culture of the type of degree you pursue. If we had known that our Duke son would not major in Chem and would switch to business, we might have pressured him to take his honors admission to UVA which has the number one regarded undergrad program in the USA this year by ratings if you care to take that seriously. Duke son now has a great job in a city with a large Duke club…but …MBA programs are hugely expensive down the road, unlike science fellowships.<br>
We just listened to the premed and prelaw programs at Accepted students day at Vandy…and both pathways…include factoring in the mean LSAT and MCAT of your undergrad school when viewing your son or daughter’s academic records. I can’t comment further on this as I am no expert yet, but obviously doing well on your LSAT at a top 20 school where everyone does well on standardized testing is good if your also nail good grades compared to peers at a top 20 school. There is always room for that student who blew the standardized exam out of the water in a school where the peer performance is not as stellar on these pre professional exams. In our case, again, going to a state school in VA and pocketing money that would have gone to a private could be the smart plan as even instate the costs of law and med school are outrageously high. Son number 2 got some merit, so he got the choice, and can go to Vandy.</p>
<p>After four years of private pay at Duke however, I would advise parents to be much more cautious than we were re believing you can afford your FAFSA number. Be harsh and recognize we are in a shaky era not an era for risk taking if your child will also want grad school. Do a spread sheet on costs of grad school before you commit.</p>
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<p>I would not put UVA in the “cheaper U” catagory alone. It is both a state school and a “named school.” </p>
<p>Again, if those great grad schools only picked students from the big buck, named schools then that would be one thing. But they do not. </p>
<p>Also, paying 200+ in the hopes that your child will be the student these professors are willing to put their name behind in grad school recommendations is very expensive gamble. </p>
<p>Lastly, just as with undergrad, getting in is one thing, being able to afford to attend in another.</p>
<p>DS just happened to call so I posed the question as to what the range of undergrad programs was for his 2nd year Ph.D colleagues. It is a very wide range, from William Paterson College in New Jersey to Harvard. DS is one of only three students to come straight from an undergrad program into this Ph.D program. Those three students came from Harvard, Georgetown and Swarthmore.</p>
<p>I got dengue fever in Africa and my blood was drawn (back here in VT) by a Middlebury College grad. He was really interesting, but gave me big bruises. I’m hoping my son has better career options after graduating from Grinnell. I think he will because he’s learning Arabic.</p>
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<p>Knowing the other two schools, do you still believe that a brilliant student from, say, UVA, UC Berkely or UMichigan would not be able to do what your son did? Would you advise another parent to “never consider” them?</p>
<p>No. It’s not personal. Don’t make it personal…First, M3S’s, thank you for taking the time to ask your son that question and thank you for getting back to me with the answer. Clearly you have no buyer’s remorse and I do not think you “should.” Your son is lucky his mom knows him well enough to know when and where to make a wise investment!</p>
<p>For me, my two kids are verrry different. Very worth investing in, but in really different areas.</p>
<p>So, given the same circumstances with your other two sons, would you go full pay? Or are there circumstances under which you would find this unwise? (For me, I’ve got one who absolutely has to be in a small school. Nothing can be done to change this–bright as all get out, too, might meet your son in a hallway some day. That kind of bright. I’ve got another who’s a stand out athlete all-around lousy student. I would not put one dime into her education, but I’ve spent thousands upon thousands on club soccer. go figure.)</p>
<p>So, would you go full pay for your other sons? Or would you want to really think it through?</p>