I’m a non-legacy, non-athlete freshman in SEAS at Penn. I got in ED last year. I can relate to most of you because when I was applying, I was on collegeconfidential more than I was on Khan Academy! Now I’m going to pay it forward in one (hopefully) epic post.
A few weeks ago, at the Penn Engineering Welcome dinner for the Class of 2022, Dean Kumar said something you won’t find anywhere on the internet.
He said that there were over 11,000 applicants for SEAS this year, and they could only accept 1 out of every 26 applicants. (Yes, the SEAS 2022 overall acceptance rate was 3.8%)
So if you REALLY love Penn, if it’s your first choice, if your stats and course rigor are within the averages for admitted students and your parents can afford it, this is my advice.
Apply ED. Especially for SEAS. I can't imagine how low the SEAS RD rate had to have been last year. But it was evidently close to impossible, certainly less than 3%.
Try to get to the Exploring College Options Seminar when Penn comes to your state. And be sure to talk afterwards with the Admissions Officer who does the info session. Get their name, their business card, and make sure they know who you are - in a nice way. Make them feel like they've successfully recruited you.
When you're getting your recommendations, provide a brag sheet for your recommenders that totally spoon feeds them every little great thing you hope they will say about how incredible you are. Make it easy for them to brag about you. There is no such thing as spreading it on too thick. None.
Make sure your EC's are the types of things that will actually benefit Penn. We don't need more smart people who just go to class and back. We need those smart students who will also fill teams and join clubs that actually bring in alumni support. For example, I saw fliers during freshman orientation that they're looking for people with ZERO experience to join the Crew team. (No thanks, they practice at like 5:30 in the morning every day.) But still, this shows that they need qualified incoming students who will fill other roles. Another example, even though our football team is doing great, no one goes to the games. Which means videos that show the stands are embarrassing for Penn. So if you have the academics to get into Penn, it won't hurt you, and will probably help you to mention that you hope to try out for the crew team. Or that you're a huge football fan who will never miss a game. Or that you'll be auditioning for plays. Or will write for the DP or Under-the-Button. You get it? That's why extracurriculars that you'll keep doing matter. They need us doing a whole lot of other stuff in addition to killing it in class.
If you can visit the campus, be sure you take a department specific tour, and sit in on some classes. Meet some of the professors in the department.
BONUS VIP info: There are three rounds you have to make it through to get accepted at Penn. If you make it through the first round of applicants, (and you probably will if you have the stats) then you’ve next got to make it through your regional round, (that’s where you show that something extra you’ll bring to the incoming class.) By that round, everyone has high stats, so your Top 10 Class Rank, your 1600 or 36 won’t really set you above applicants in the Top 10% of their class with a 1500 or 34. This is the round where they consider “What can you do for Penn?” Last is the final departmental acceptance round. That’s when someone from the specific college you applied to joins the admissions team and chooses who gets deferred or accepted during ED, or accepted vs wait listed during RD. (Denials happen in the first two rounds.) Keep in mind, a whole lot of smart, totally qualified, students who will bring great things to the incoming class get deferred or waitlisted for no other reason than there isn’t room for them all. Consequently, this is when my tip #5 can be important. In the final round, if your application actually mentions by name one of the professors (or a colleague they know) - your chances would probably be better vs the applicants who don’t.
Hope this helps. I know I would’ve given almost anything for this kind of info when I was applying. Best of Luck to the Class of 2023! (And/or any other prospective Quakers who stumble across this in the future!)
Your comment is a little offensive–legacies and athletes are not the only ones that have significant advantage in admissions.
“We need those smart students who will also fill teams and join clubs that actually bring in alumni support. For example, I saw fliers during freshman orientation that they’re looking for people with ZERO experience to join the Crew team. (No thanks, they practice at like 5:30 in the morning every day.) But still, this shows that they need qualified incoming students who will fill other roles. Another example, even though our football team is doing great, no one goes to the games. Which means videos that show the stands are embarrassing for Penn. So if you have the academics to get into Penn, it won’t hurt you, and will probably help you to mention that you hope to try out for the crew team. Or that you’re a huge football fan who will never miss a game. Or that you’ll be auditioning for plays. Or will write for the DP or Under-the-Button. You get it? That’s why extracurriculars that you’ll keep doing matter. They need us doing a whole lot of other stuff in addition to killing it in class.”
Well maybe the kids with the work ethic to play these sports will be able to manage school and their sport. Sorry–telling Penn you will never miss a game is not a tactic I would recommend. Or that you will try to walk on to a D1 team…they arent letting applicants in based on what they SAY they will do.
Actually, it won’t help you either, and will likely hurt you if you manage to make an essay less effective by spouting platitudes.
As an FYI, Penn is not unique in using walk-ons for crew. Very few high schools offer crew as a sport, so other than perhaps a rowing machine at the gym, most applicants have never been exposed. That’s also in part why the crew recruits are disproportionately intl.
It’s not only surprising, it’s wrong. 3.8% is number of matriculants/number of applicants, not number of acceptances/number of applicants, assuming the 11K application number is accurate.
@skieurope - an EXCELLENT point that I should have made more clear. I agree about the essay. No, I am NOT advocating anyone make their essays less effective by unsuccessfully working in an EXTREMELY ANCILLARY detail about football, crew or EC’s. (Please no one do that.) If it doesn’t fit, don’t force it. As for the SEAS acceptance rate, I can tell you for a fact that on Wednesday, August 22, 2018 at 6:00 pm in the Quain Courtyard, the Dean of Engineering himself, Dr. Vijay Kumar said very clearly that SEAS had over 11,000 applicants and could only take 1 out of 26 for the class of 2022. I was there. That’s what he said. (And 1 out of 26 = 3.84%.)
Here’s where we can speculate though - he did not say what percent of the incoming class was accepted under ED vs RD. So if a larger-than-expected number of applicants came in under RD, and half their slots were already taken by ED - that would’ve left them having to reject a whole lot more RD applicants than usual, percentage-wise. Either way, even at 3.8%, the SEAS acceptance rate would still be a little less than half Penn’s overall acceptance rate which includes the college and nursing (and anecdotally they are said to have a higher acceptance rate than Wharton and SEAS.) If a quarter of all UPenn applications (Over 11,000) went to SEAS last year, it is easy to see how this could have happened.
@Center - um…who hurt you? At no point did I even come close to inferring that legacies and recruited athletes are the only ones with admissions advantages. HOWEVER…(and this is straight from one of their AO’s mouths) the ONLY time legacy or recruited athlete status helps a Penn applicant is during ED. He stated flat-out that if you want Penn to give you preference in admissions, then you must reciprocate by showing your preference for Penn by applying ED.
My intention was not to offend anyone. In fact, my intention was to help by sharing what I heard straight from the Dean’s mouth, and sharing what I’ve seen on campus thus far about the crew team and football games. This is the exact kind of stuff I wanted to know last year when I was applying.
I can’t/won’t debate what you heard because I was not there. But I do not believe that the 3.8 number is correct. Nor do we know AFAIK, the exact size of SEAS '22, but 435 seems to have in the past been the target. I also know from experience that people in authority have sometimes said misleading statements along the lines of “We had X applicants for Y seats,” which is a different statement than “We has X applicants and accepted Z.” Regardless, we can all agree that SEAS is highly selective.
You can’t be serious if you think 1 out of 26 is referring to the acceptance rate. When he said that ratio, he’s clearly referring to the actual spots and not the number of accepted students.
@FireLordAzula@skieurope I suspect that the 3.8% is enrolled over applied. Assuming a 65% yield, it would imply and acceptance rate of about 5.8%. It is still excellent, and would mean admitting about 1 out of every 17 applicants, which is very stiff competition. SEAS is doing great!
Thank you for these information! I am applying ED for Digital Media Design this year, and these info really helps! If possible, could you share any more things about the application of specific subjects please(if that’s okay)?
^ just for context here dean kumar says basically for every penn engineering student there’s 25 applicants. Not necessarily indicative of acceptance rate per se, but not really sure what it means either lol
Hi Firelordazula - your OP was very helpful! Keep helping others – our country has become a bunch of snowflakes!! Anything and everything is offensive - don’t let that dictate what you are saying or how you say it!!
Thank you - my son would be applying and would reach out to you --NOT engineering!
I am proud of the fact that you are paying forward - Good Karma always gets rewarded!!!
