<p>
</p>
<p>Exactly. There are a lot of people here on CC that know quite a bit, but many don’t have an appreciation for the substance contained in these science and engineering courses. There’s no faking it, no watered down versions that can substitute. </p>
<p>These are actual hard classes, and there’s no way around it. They are designed to weed out those who won’t cut it, for whatever reason. Your son needs to rethink things (hopefully on his own nickel).</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I know these situations are sensitive and not easy to deal with. AND I also know that computer engineering etc cannot be COMPLETED at a community college. BUT a couple of things…First…related to the above quote (and I’m not meaning to be insensitive)…if my kid wanted NON of my advise or help…I would NOT be offering my money up for an additional term.</p>
<p>Second…my husband is an engineer. He completed ALL of his general education requirements at a community college before matriculating at a four year school. Even engineering majors have gen ed requirements. Many CCs have articulation agreements with four year school…and some of these four year schools have computer engineering or other engineering programs.</p>
<p>Just to back up what thumper1 said, there are many community colleges, at least in California, that teach fairly advanced courses in their given fields - the equivalent of anything a freshman or sophomore would take at a UC or CSU campus.</p>
<p>They are not “easier” or watered-down in any way, shape or form - but they are much, much cheaper, and hence the price of failure is much lower. Therefore, if someone wants to screw around for their first few years of college (I did), they won’t cost their parents a fortune in blown classes.</p>
<p>Wow. Instant replay of exactly what happened with my son 5 years ago. Flunked first semester, pretty much, except for music classes in which he got an A, but all the pre engineering stuff - he simply didn’t go to class, apparently he was just overwhelmed. </p>
<p>(I would like to take this opportunity to repeat my oft grumbled reminder that I DID tell everyone the boy needed a gap year but NOOOO they wouldn’t listen…)</p>
<p>He came home and went to community college, because his scholarship was blown and even if he had to retake those classes at some point, there was other work he could be doing at community college and there was no money for the big university, period.</p>
<p>He took to heart our suggestion that if he was in over his head it was better to drop than to flunk and dropped ALL his classes but one. </p>
<p>At that point we decided enough was enough - cheap or not, if he was just going to drop and flunk it was a waste of money and time to go - and told him if he didn’t want to finish his education (and he’d been an a/b honor roll student in high school…so ???) and this was going to be his life he might as well get to living whatever it was going to be and go out on his own and we gave him 6 months to save up and move out. He moved out in 2, and struggled along in a series of crappy paying, crappy work, entry level jobs, doing the whole squeezing by on 20 bucks a week after paying rent, utilities and car expenses.</p>
<p>Guess what…he decided that attending classes and studying for them may not be what he wants to do but a few years of that is decidedly better than a lifetime of what he’s been doing. He moved back in a couple weeks ago and is going back this spring semester.</p>
<p>One thing I will say for him is he has never failed to keep SOME sort of job; he has a good work ethic. I don’t know for sure just what happened to him academically and he’s not one much to emote or talk about feelings so we may never get the real reason he melted down like that.</p>
<p>But it doesn’t much matter in the long run, as long as he gets his education. He now has a very good appreciation of exactly what you get for free in this world (that would be exactly nothing) and is pretty grateful for the second chance. We wouldn’t have let him end up on the streets, but he did sacrifice and come pretty close to suffering, I think. He would never ask us for money unless he was desperate - he finally was in so much pain from his teeth he broke down and asked us to help and we did. Such a far cry from the security of a life that was not wealthy but where all the basics of life were met without question. It was very hard for me to think of how meager his life was, but it was his choice.</p>
<p>By the way we didn’t kick him out as punishment, and we helped him when he needed it (mainly things he couldn’t entirely manage on his own like dental work or car repairs) but we just realized that he had to learn the hard way. It was probably the best thing we ever did for him - and we did soooo much for him growing up and in high school - so much that COST so much money - and yet the single best thing we ever did was free. lol.</p>
<p>I joke, but sometimes they do have to learn the hard way and it’s the hardest thing ever to let go. But he simply really did not grasp WHY school mattered. He has ADD and at the time, I think it’s just that the eventual, four or five year away reward for getting up NOW, today, and going to classes he hated (he should never have been coerced into engineering - another muttered “I told you so” from me - he should have taken music, so what if they don’t make any money, neither do dropouts) every day for thousands of days on end was too far away, whereas sitting around in his pj’s playing video games was immediate gratification and he just wasn’t grown up enough. He grew up more that first year than he did his whole previous 18, but it took a while more for him to finally realize that no matter how good an employee he tried to be, there was just never going to be a way for him to make a decent living without getting more education, and he has enough incentive - INTERNAL incentive - now, for him to have the self discipline to stick to it.</p>
<p>I don’t know what parts of my son’s experience are relative to your own, but, he isn’t the first kid to do it, and in the long run, as long as the issues are addressed, it won’t ruin his life. He’ll be behind his buddies - my son’s friends who stayed in school all graduated this year and are getting good jobs which might be part of his incentive to go back. But I thought the world was ending when this happened. Now I know he just had to get there by another pathway. The important thing is to make sure you give your kid the help he has valid reason to need but not to enable him - it’s a tricky balance, but we found it, and you can always change the plan if what you are doing isn’t working.</p>
<p>
I think you misunderstood what thumper1 said. He (she?) was referring to the general education coursework. You’re not going to get engineering/math classes that will transfer from the CC level into a real engineering program. No way.</p>
<p>snapdragonfly - Congrats on giving your son exactly what he needed when he needed it! Tough decision, but a great decision!</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Yes way.</p>
<p>Many California community college courses are directly articulated with their lower-division counterparts at CSU and UC campuses. Unless UC Berkeley isn’t a “real engineering program.”</p>
<p>For example, Contra Costa College’s ENG 255 - Statics transfers as UC Berkeley’s ENGIN 36 - Engineering Mechanics 1. CCC’s ENG 240 - Properties of Engineering Materials transfers as Cal’s ENGIN 45 - Properties of Materials. Proof [here[/url</a>]. Every single CCC math course from calculus up through discrete mathematics transfers directly across to Cal.</p>
<p>Granted, these are freshman and sophomore level classes. But of course that’s what’s going to be offered at a community college. The goal of California community colleges is to prepare students to transfer into a UC or CSU as a junior - including common first and second-year courses in the major.</p>
<p>You might want to familiarize yourself with [url=<a href=“http://www.assist.org%5DASSIST%5B/url”>http://www.assist.org]ASSIST[/url</a>]. This is the way things have worked in California for decades. The [url=<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Master_Plan_for_Higher_Education]Master”>California Master Plan for Higher Education - Wikipedia]Master</a> Plan for Higher Education](<a href=“Welcome to ASSIST”>Welcome to ASSIST) is a wonderful thing.</p>
<p>Thanks so much for your thoughtful answers to my letter. So far his only response has been that he has been lazy but I think we will be having more conversations about that. You all had many ggod suggestions that I will piece together and put to good use. Hopefully his advisor will be in tomorrow so we will start there. Thanks again.</p>
<p>Are the school offices open this week? The 2 schools I have experience with are completely closed down until the new year.</p>
<p>polarscribe - Wow, if true, that’s amazing. I guess CCs are at an entirely different level in CA. CA folks have some really incredible resources.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Not the UPPER level courses…but this kid is a FRESHMAN. DD just completed a degree in engineering. Almost EVERY course (including her science/math courses) could have been completed at a community college. </p>
<p>DH did just that and his community college STILL has an articulation agreement with his four year university…even for engineering majors. He took ALL of his general ed and lower level math/science course at the CC…the four year school accepted ALL of them towards his degree in engineering which he then completed in the following two years…taking the UPPER level courses at the four year school.</p>
<p>Sorry…but there are engineering students who take one or two courses at a time at night to complete their degrees while working at other jobs. My husband saw this at his CC and at his four year school…especially with evening classes. You do NOT have to go to a residential college to complete a degree in engineering.</p>
<p>
I don’t know what state you are in, but I also completed the first 2 years of an engineering degree at a SUNY community college, then transferred to a “real engineering program” and finished the last 2 years. Took Statics, Dynamics, SOM, Physics, Calculus, etc. - and they were not watered down and transferred with no problems. Did just fine there and at the University, graduated summa cum laude.</p>
<p>Op, it might help if we knew which courses he got the F’s in?</p>
<p>There are some CCs in Mass that have real engineering courses. I’ve seen some at a few other CCs around the country too. The breadth and quality of CCs varies widely.</p>
<p>It is easy to get overwhelmed in CS/CE programs. A talented student that’s a little lazy can get behind at the start and may never be able to catch up and then fall further and further behind. Natural talent that worked well in high-school usually won’t work because the workload in college goes up a level and then keeps going up.</p>
<p>As others have said, you and he need to figure out what the problem was and whether or not it is worth it to continue in this major or if switching to something else would result in success. To do that, you need a question and answer process to see if he understood the material, if he had trouble with the homeworks and labs, if it was time management. If he didn’t understand the material at all, then perhaps looking at other majors would be prudent.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Yes, such a bad time of year to receive an unpleasant first semester result.</p>
<p>Hugs to you. Last year we were the ones calling the school to figure out wha the next step would be. Son’s school was closed the week after Christmas but did reopen right after the new year. We were able to drive down and have a face to face meeting with a group of school folks before the semester started.</p>
<p>It’s almost like they’re trying to avoid you, isn’t it? ;-)</p>
<p>I would not expect his adviser to be in until after the new year, at the earliest… quite possibly not until the start of the next semester. However, he or she may be checking email on a regular basis over the break. Your son could email his adviser with questions, and hopefully the adviser will get back to him in a timely fashion.</p>
<p>Freshmen do not always read the syllabus as well as they should. The syllabus should have all class policies… attendance rules, how much assignment are worth, if students loose points for being late to class or turning in assignment late, etc… I have found that some of my advisees will be confused as to why they failed a class when they had all Cs and Bs on assignments, only to “discover” that they loose a third of a letter grade for each absence over two or three. So, they initially earned a B-, but missed 9 classes over the course of the semester, and ended up earning an F. </p>
<p>You may be able to open the conversation about what happened in his classes if you can see the syllabi for his classes. If he does not have paper copies, they may be posted on the course web page through Blackboard (or whatever online system his school uses).</p>
<p>Yes, my S2 who had the awful first sem. never bothered to check Blackboard where a ton of information is posted. I’m not sure he really understood what it was and how it worked exactly…partly because he skipped most of his freshman “intro to everything about college” one (credit hr) class. Also he thought the prof. would tell him everything he needed to know in class (just like h.s.) so he didn’t bother to figure Blackboard out.</p>
<p>Only after he came home for Christmas break and the awful news arrived, did he find out all he had missed by never checking Blackboard. He was honestly surprised at one of the classes he failed. He was well versed in where to go to find info on BB when he returned for Spring sem.</p>
<p>It’s unclear whether OP’s S has any underlying physical or mental health issues. It’s clear my S has some issues. As noted, he’s concerned about documentation for fear it will adversely impact future chances to secure employment – but clearly Ds are just as bad. </p>
<p>Specific ?:
Anyone have any experience with getting grades expunged if we can retro-actively document anxiety/stress disorders? Or at the least appeal to have the Ds changed to Pass/Fail if he agrees to work with counseling services second semester or even unconditionally?</p>
<p>My brother had a 0.75 GPA after his first semester. They called it the Square Root Club. The square root of the average is higher than the average. </p>
<p>Anyway, he was premed at the time, and realized that the poor grades were a bad sign for the future. How many doctors fail biology? And courses would only get harder down the line. He changed majors and graduated with a business degree, Delta Mu Delta (business honor society). I think OP’s kid might want to consider a new major.</p>
<p>BTW, for those non-math people, the square root of any number less than 1 is higher than the original number.</p>
<p>A first semester melt-down isn’t unusual. I like PackMom’s approach of allowing the boy one more semester to pull himself together. Assuming he’s on academic probation, he’ll HAVE to do MUCH better just to stay at the school. Like many, many other students in that predicament, he may be “shocked into” finding his stride by the sheer knowledge he’s facing expulsion. Hang in there OP. Other kids have overcome a terrible start and gone on to do well in college. Your son may very well be one of them.</p>