<p>Are the accelerated programs that last just 6 years too rushed? Here's what UMKC shows for its curriculum: </p>
<p>B.A./M.D</a>. Program : Curriculum : UMKC School of Medicine</p>
<p>I'm not very well informed, but that looks like a lot of courses for college, particularly in the first semester. Is this typically handled alright by accepted students, or is it tough to get through?</p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
<p>OP,
Since you admitted that “I’m not very well informed”, I have concluded that you did not get into any combined programs yet. Then my advice is do not waste your time! Get into several programs accelerated and non-accelerated, then decide which one to choose. In a process of applying, you will learn whole ton about every single one. Your current dilemma is mute, it does not exist, you do not have choices.</p>
<p>MiamiDAP couldn’t put it any better than that… apply to programs at schools you WANT to attend and then if you are invited to interview you will learn all that you need to know when researching for your interview, and at the interview day. there is no point researching a program if you don’t even get interviewed! see your options and then weigh them based on what you learned at interviews. all of the programs differ pretty drastically considering they all seem similar superficially.</p>
<p>IMO, this is definitely a fair question to ask before you apply. Telling students to just apply to every program and learn about it later is a bad strategy–it is just like how you don’t apply to every single liberal arts college just because they all seem the same superficially. It is a waste of time and money.</p>
<p>You should definitely make sure you like the program before you apply, and should definitely research before you shell out the $100 for the application. I don’t know about this program specifically, but an older cousin of mine did a 6-year program at Lehigh(which might not be offered anymore). He enjoyed it, and is a very successful doctor. However, on that note, he also told me how a lot of the students in the program dropped out whether because of restrictive requirements, desire for more life experience(be it research or travel abroad), wanting a more regular college experience, etc. I would expect that you would be staying at the college all your summers to complete the program requirements. </p>
<p>Again, I don’t have specific information about this program though. Sorry and good luck!</p>
<p>I am not sure which UG is charging $100 for application fee, some are free, some you apply thru Common app. I still insist that you will not know whole lot about many programs even after extensive research until you go to interview and talk to current students. I based my opinion on D’s applying to several combined bs/md and going to many interviews. I was personally present there. D. and we (parents) talked to many current students, sat thru detailed information sessions ran by both faculty and current students, talked to parents who have visited other places and even have some experiences with older kids. I can guarantee you that you will not know even 10% of what you need to know to make an informed choice before your interview visit. I also can assure you and anybody who is applying to combined bs/md, that you will not have very many choices to think about. Even very top caliber students with practically perfect stats, EC’s, …etc. will not have very many choices among places that might have well over 1000 applicants to some under 20 spots. Getting accepted is a lot of luck on top of everything else.
Apply to reasonabel number of wide range of programs. Research the ones that will accept you and then make informed decision.</p>
<p>Yes, most applications are now $100, and I used the common app for all except for maybe 1 or 2. The fee per college(even on the common app) ranges from $60-$75. Yes, some are free(one out of my thirteen was free). But the fees don’t end there. You need to send and SAT or ACT score report–I don’t know about ACT but sending the SAT was $10 per college. Then you need to send your AP scores as well–yes you are allowed to write down at the test-taking time 1 or 2 colleges you can send it to for free, but as a junior or sophomore taking the APs, do you really know yet? Even if you do, that saves you $30 at most(its $15 per college you send your AP score at. In addition, my school has a processing fee of $5 for sending your transcript and guidance reference. There are hidden fees, and yes, it does end up costing about $100 per application.</p>
<p>I had a very different experience with my ba/md application process than your daughter. I know people who applied widely, and that is a fine strategy if being in any ba/md, regardless of your fit at the college, is your main goal. I personally wanted a real college experience, so I eliminated 6-year right away, since my cousin’s experience, as he said, was lacking in the college experience(you have to think that if you are committing yourself to med school, college is your last chance to try new things and just enjoy your time until you are in your early thirties. On the flip-side 6-year programs cost less, and you’ll get to relax before your thirty, so both sides have its ups and downs. Know what you want in an undergraduate institution. If you like liberal arts, than apply to programs within liberal arts colleges only(which is what I did). If you like technical schools, apply that way. It may be hard to get to know the program before you get there, but you will definitely get to know your undergrad institution before applying, and that is just as important. If you hate the undergrad, you won’t be as successful, and you’ll be miserable for the next 6-8 years of your life.
A wide-range is good, but I would cap it at ten at most. I know someone who claims to have applied to upwards 30 programs(I don’t even know if that many still exist). You don’t know everything about any college before going in, but 30 is excessive. I only applied to 5 programs, got into 2, and made a decision between those and the regular undergrads I got into. Don’t apply to too many programs which are high-reaches for you, and don’t apply to ones you don’t like from what you’ve read.</p>
<p>If you are concerned about this program but really like the 6-year idea, and no one on this forum has information, email the college! They will put you into contact with a student, or give you a pamphlet of info.</p>
<p>“On the flip-side 6-year programs cost less”</p>
<p>-This is example of trying to have some general answer applicable to all bs/md’s. No, not always. If you get full tuition or full ride to UG portion, You might end up paying less doing 4+4 program. My D. has chosen 4+4 combined bs/md for exactly for the same reason as you, she wanted normal college experience with minors, sorority, job, Research, going abroad…etc. The accelerated one that she got in, UG portion tuition (option of 2 or 3 years) was higher than for general student body because being in accelerated program required up to 21 credit hours and taking summer classes. We did not pay anything in tuition for D’s 4 years of UG and she did not need to take single summer class. She got Merit awards everywhere that she applied (which is normal for bs/md applicant), but the one she has chosen (because of perfect fit to her personality and wide range of interests) gave her more generous package than some others.<br>
Again, I cannot see how anybody would know all details and why even try to find out, when you will get into very few. Then investigate, including their Merit packages (by that time you will know your award package).
Information from one student or pamphlet of info. by far is not enough. Everybody is free to do what they want. However if they are asking for opinions based on real life experiences, here is mine.</p>
<p>I agree with MiamiDAP and think you should apply as widely as possible. Although high schoolers can generally get away with applying to 6-10 colleges, ba/md programs are different. Most undergrad students apply to 15-20 med schools and med schools in general have about 100 open spots whereas ba/md programs have about 20. If you’re serious about getting into a ba/md program, you should apply to 10-15 at the very minimum, imo.</p>
<p>Yes, you should narrow it down based on what type of program you are looking for, location, etc as much as you can before you apply, but applying to a wide range of programs is usually a good idea. Sure, you’re going to shell out a $100 extra for each application, but it will likely be to your benefit in the long run when you have choices of where to go with some offering more scholarship money than others.</p>
<p>Applying to top ba/md is very similar to applying to Harvard. 2000 applicants for 20 spots vs. 35,000 applicants for 1500 spots. Colleges say its all random, but it really isn’t–that’s a technique used to reduce complaints. My very good friend got into Brown PLME, Northwestern HPME, Harvard, Yale, Princeton–that doesn’t sound random. I on the other hand got into Brown but not PLME, Dartmouth, lower-tier ba/md, Amherst–not so random. Another friend got into Brown, Dartmouth, Williams, Harvard, not Yale, not Stanford. Harvard may be “luck” but she had legacy–again not random. You can’t depend on luck to get you in anywhere. Ultimately, if your stats aren’t on par, you won’t be getting in, unless you have some other hook.</p>
<p>I am not saying applying widely does not work. I know people who have done it and have been successful, and there may even be a stray you get into above your level. But I reiterate, don’t apply to 20 programs just because they are ba/md, but because they are ba/md AND you could see yourself at the undergrad. For some, $100 is serious money. If you apply to 30 schools, that is $3000. That is a lot of money to be shelling on just applications. Telling someone who asks a question about a program to not just not ask questions is simply bad advice. Yes, tell them you may only understand a program partially before applying, but not that asking questions is futile. Maybe I just have an exceptionally good way of asking adcoms for info, but I felt like I didn’t learn that much at interviews. You get student reviews at interviews, but you can get that beforehand as well.</p>
<p>@MiamiDAP–wow, I didn’t even think of the fact that 6-year might be higher tuition per year. I didn’t really dig deep into 6-year programs since I knew it wasn’t what I was looking for. Sorry for the generalization.</p>
<p>I should probably mention that my priority wasn’t ba/md above all. I preferred ba/md but I was also very interested in my quality of life at college. I realize that for others, ba/md is the end all be all, so in that case apply to 20 ba/md programs. But also be aware that ba/md isn’t that much less work than being regular pre-med. At most, you have to maintain a high-gpa, maintain a portfolio, some still require the MCAT, etc. There are more lax ones out there but they are disappearing and/or becoming more strict, or are state programs open only to state residents. It is going to be stressful no matter what, so why not be stressed at a place where you actually want to be?</p>
<p>Anyway, I’ve said all I want to say in the matter, so I will stop hijacking your thread rover. Good luck in the application process!</p>
<p>Answering the OPs question: they’re not too rigorous. It depends on the person. I know many people who did the 6 year thing and they’re happy successful doctors. Others have dropped out due to the intense pressure and stress. It’s up to you and you know what you can handle. Goood luck!</p>
<p>C’mon, paying another $100 is important when you will be paying about $70,000/year for 4 years in Med. School? There are variations, and I have referred to total cost (living,…etc.) for one of the most expansive one. However, you should be prepared to go to any Med. School that will accept you. BTW, being in combined program, has narrowed my D’s choices of Med. Schools when she decided to apply out of her program. She has definitely saved lots, applying only to 7 additional Med. Schools, having spot already in her bs/md with free application. So, if you apply to lots of bs/md’s and get into one or few and decide to attend there, then you will save lots for not applying regular route or applying to very few if your program allow you and if you want to do so. D. was the only one in her bs/md who applied out. Others did not want to bother. She is going to Med. School outside of her bs/md. She had great choices, had hard time deciding, had to visit few schools second time even after being there for interview. And you are saying talk to a student and read the pamphlet? Sorry, does not work this way. </p>
<p>“@MiamiDAP–wow, I didn’t even think of the fact that 6-year might be higher tuition per year.” - Well, it might be higher at one place and not so at another. So, I am not saying anything in general in regard to different programs. I have only knowledge about the ones that D. applied and even that has changed since 4 years ago. D’s combined program has changed whole lot. What is true today, is not so tomorrow. The only way to find out is to apply and see what you get on your plate, then get a taste of all of them, then decide. Yes, applying widely is a key.</p>
<p>I think what I am saying is very reasonable. You should definitely research before you apply. If you don’t like what you have found, don’t apply. You may not know everything about the program, but you will know enough as to whether you want to be a part of it for 6-8 years.
Save yourself the $100 if you can find out beforehand you don’t like the program.</p>
<p>I would have pursued 6-year program in retrospect. If someone like me has taken 15 AP classes, I am not sure why I want to pursue undergrad for 4 years? Just look the at medical schools in India, the HS students go directly to med schools. Are they less of a doctor from India since they did not get the 8 year experience? A good chunk of them come to USA and they have earned a good score in USMLE exams. Are they immature since they did not take sociology, humanities, and anthropology courses? The American Medical Association should spend some time researching all this. I do see a huge disparity when they accept the foreign doctors to practice in USA. I have seen so many relatives of mine from USA went to India to get the 6-year degree from India. They were either not too smart or lazy to spend 8 years to become a doctor. Whatever the reason may be the Indian NRI medical schools like Manipal keeps producing so many doctors for USA. There are too many loopholes in the system to be fixed by AMA. I like the way the American Dental Association operates. They do not accredit any foreign Dental degree and they make you repeat the Dental degree (via accelerated program etc.). I wish AMA takes similar action.</p>
<p>I have many friends who have pursued the Indian medical school –> USMLE –> residency in the US option. Most all of them are at a huge disadvantage in terms of residency choice. Most people are limited to primary care, some to general surgery, and a very minuscule percentage to more competitive specialist fields. </p>
<p>Since we are facing a shortage in primary care doctors and all the studies I have seen have shown little to no difference in terms of quality of medical care provided by IMGs, shouldn’t we be encouraging more physicians to come to the US not less? </p>
<p>But that’s probably a topic for a different forum focused on health policy rather than collegeconfidential haha</p>
<p>"If someone like me has taken 15 AP classes, I am not sure why I want to pursue undergrad for 4 years? "</p>
<p>-Others want to have growing up experiences in addition to college degree. They want to go abroad, they want to have minors, they want Greek, sports, varsity or club, job. But more so, they do not want to take classes in a summer. Third point in making, AP’s are usually much lower level than intro classes at college, with exception maybe English, Math, History. Well, my D. said that her intro Bio went thru AP class material in about first 2 weeks, then they moved on. Material from this class was used in higher level classes as background. She had 5 on AP Bio exam as most kids in her college Honors class. They had to work their hardest to get high grades, some did not survive and switched from pre-med. AP’s do not mean much, except for English, Math, history.
And, again, 6 year program might be more expansive, depending on program. And at the end age migh be an issue for residency matching. If my D. has chosen accelerated program instead of 4+4 (she has choice of both), she would have graduated from Med. School at 19. I am not sure if it is OK to start matching for residency at 18.</p>
<p>Ops, wrong age, D. would have graduted from 6 year program at 23, starting matching at 22, not 19-18.</p>
<p>I was on vacation and thus did not read the conversation until now. But I’m glad to see that it grew. </p>
<p>Basically, thestartingline is on the same page as me. Of course, I could apply to each and every one of the 20+ programs that are out there. But, along with the money, that requires an immense amount of time with the different applications, essays, and more. And this fall, I have an enormous amount of extra-curricular commitments, many with major leadership positions, which will keep me very busy. Not to mention that I’ll be taking the SAT’s one more time, creating yet another thing I must worry about. All of this is compounded by my 5 AP classes. So, bottom line, finding out simple information like that for which I asked beforehand will probably make for an easier time over the next 6 months. I didn’t realize I couldn’t use this forum to find information that’ll make my life a little easier…</p>
<p>To ACTUALLY answer your question: I have talked to 4-5 kids currently in the Penn State/Jefferson 6yr bs/md program and from what they said the six year program is not very intense at all. Most of the students felt that they were able to enjoy the college experience much more than normal because they had the pressure of med school admissions lifted off their shoulder and their AP credit freed up some of the coursework. Although the program requires summer semesters, the students said that they actually enjoyed that time very much. All in all I don’t think that the 6 yr option is too rigorous at least for this specific program.</p>
<p>I have a few questions: if I did let’s say the 6 year program at UMKC, I’d be 22 when I graduate. Would residencies look down on that? Also, I’m afraid I won’t get good residencies, which is what I’ve heard. Is this true?</p>