600/600 SAT needed to get past the preliminary application?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Naval Academy - Annapolis
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<p>Leetx,</p>

<p>I think you have been the victim of a misunderstanding. All you need to become an official candidate is 570M/530V.</p>

<p>The mainstay at the front desk answering the phone is no longer there. Perhaps the person you talked to is new and uninformed. </p>

<p>Have you submitted your new SATs to your on-line preliminary application?</p>

<p>If so, call the CGO again and ask to talk to your Regional Director.</p>

<p>If there is some other reason that you have been denined candidacy, let us know. It would be a surprise to me.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

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<p>I did not have a 600/600 and I received a candidate number. Perhaps, SAT is not th only thing the look for when deciding to distribute candidate numbers.</p>

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<p>i called and got another receptionist. He did not say anything about 600/600, but told me to call back on Monday to reach the NC region person. Since I did not put my scores on my preliminary app, should I pay collegeboard to have them send an official score report to USNA?</p>

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<p>^^^^^
Your high school should send your SAT/ACT scores with your transcript. Save yourself some money. The scores will get into your file a lot quicker from a transcript than having them sent by the college board.</p>

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<p>Rather than wrangling with the Candidate Guidance Office (CGO) to try to convince them to issue you a candidacy, you should contact your BGO. This is one of the things BGO's are empowered to deal with on behalf of the CGO.</p>

<p>But first, short of your attempt at the Preliminary Application, have you registered your interest with the Naval Academy? You can do that at:</p>

<p><a href="https://candidateinformation.usna.edu/ITSD/rfip/acawu014$.startup"&gt;https://candidateinformation.usna.edu/ITSD/rfip/acawu014$.startup&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>This will get you on your local BGO's list of candidates for the Class of 2012 (even if you don't have the SAT / ACT scores to qualify). The BGO will note that you have not yet been issued a candidacy. When you show up on his/her list, he/she is supposed to contact you ("contact and counsel") to ask many of the questions that in the fullness of your conversation might indicate that despite your scores, you would be a good candidate. </p>

<p>Your BGO can then, if completely convinced of your potential motivation, capabilities, and competitiveness contact the CGO and request that you be provided a candidacy. This is by no means a sure thing.... (It would probably help if you specifically asked him/her to do it for you).</p>

<p>So get on your BGO's "list" first (see above)</p>

<p>Then you need to find out how to contact your BGO. (Why wait for him/her to call you?). That is what you should ask Admissions (CGO) for when you call. Ask for the name and number of the BGO Area Coordinator for your area. When you call the AC, he/she will direct you to the BGO that works with candidates from your high school.</p>

<p>When you finally call your BGO, be prepared to discuss why in your own humble opinion, despite your scores, you are qualified to compete for appointment.</p>

<p>Good luck</p>

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<p>i registered for the information application/packet about 8 months ago. Then I called the receptionist yesterday and she said I should forget about the info and just surf the usna website for knowledge. What should I do?</p>

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<p>Have you posted your new SATs on the preliminary application?</p>

<p>What did you post as your class standing?</p>

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<p>leetx,</p>

<p>Sorry, just saw your post above where you asked about reporting SATs. For preliminary application, they may be unofficial which is self reporting.</p>

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<p>My stats</p>

<p>670M/560V/640W/11 Essay
about 45/447 rank
3 on AP Stats</p>

<p>Will take at least 3 AP's next year
3 Years JV Wrestling
I believe I can pass physical candidacy test
Model UN 1
Model Congress 1
Boy's State (Summer Program)
FCA
FCCLA
Beta Club 2 years
Key Club 2 years
lost track of exact hours of community service
Military Program at our school, small nothing fancy
Summer Ventures in Science and Mathematics (summer)
National French Honors Society</p>

<p>what are my chances?</p>

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<p>I am relieved that I got a candidate number with my SAT score. I took my SAT in my sophomore year and got a 510 Math and 550 Verbal. I took ACT after I already was a candidate and I did much better, I will be using my ACT for my apps. to congressmen and such</p>

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<p>how does admission to a service academy like usma and usna compare with difficult/ivy league level universities like duke and columbia?</p>

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<p>They're not simple to compare, while many try. The truth seems to be that all are, to some varied degree, highly competitive using the traditional measures ... GPA, ranking, course loads, ECs, etc. ... on those measures alone, the Ivies are probably somewhat more difficult to gain admission. However, in looking at what is required and carefully scrutinized and measured in the SA's, then I'd venture to wager that the vast majority of those admitted to the Ivies would NOT be offered appointment to an SA.</p>

<p>Conversely, I'd also wager that a greater percentage of those receiving offer of appointment and/or matriculating to an SA would be admitted to an Ivy than Ivy admits receiving an appointment offer.</p>

<p>So my short speculative answer is ... SAs are more difficult to gain admission ... far more ... than are Ivies. But NOT based upon traditional admission/academic measures. The bottom line is that my notion will never be tested for its validity.</p>

<p>One other thing related to this ... if one looks at the Princeton Reviews measurement of "Selectivity" the Ivies are all above the SAs (which are also high relative to the universe of 5,000 or so colleges and universities). But they only take into account the traditional measures like applicants, applicants accepted, rate of return of those accepted, test scores, etc. And even there, its more apples to oranges than apples to apples. Ex: It notes rightly that there are 12K or so applicants (or candidates) for USNA. Well, that does not stack up neatly against applicants to Yale or Princeton, since those have to pay an initial fee to become such. That precludes alot of potential students who might give it a go in the absence of a $70 or $80 roll of the dice. </p>

<p>So the bottom line is that no one really knows, no one will ever know, but if we could, I'd bet that it's a whole lot tougher getting a slot at an SA than in Harvard's frosh class. Most of them couldn't do a single pull-up. </p>

<p>They are simply 2 very disparate measures imo.</p>

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<p>"The minimum SAT scores required to obtain a candidate number are 530/V and 570/M. The statement that the minimum requirement is scores of 600/V and 600/M is the party line; however, if you look at the profiles you will see that it is possible to obtain an appointment with lower scores, although it will be difficult.
"</p>

<p>So what is it? Do you have to have 600/600 for sure to get a candidate number for this?</p>

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<p>Ivy Leaguers hate to discuss this issue. I will argue that the Ivies are tougher to gain admission on the basis of SAT scores, class rank, and GPA- The academic type stuff. The academies are definitely tougher on matters such as EC's, leadership, recommendations, and interviews. In all, the Service Academies are tougher. Here's why:</p>

<p>You don't need a congressional nomination, pass a fitness test, or pass a medical exam to get into Harvard. All of these are requirements for admission.</p>

<p>Whistle Pig mentioned the free charge to submit an application to the academies. The total number of candidates for each Academy is about 11,500 annually. Keep in mind that many, many other people would like to apply to the Academies than this number. The OP of this thread is having trouble even getting a candidate number. Think of how many people out there are in the same boat as you, leetx. I would venture to guess that there are at least 20,000 people WHO TRY to apply each year but cannot receive a candidate number. You don't have this problem at the Ivies who want many people to apply and get the $85 fee attached and the reputation of picking just a few out of many, many applications. The USNA limits the number it takes in with the preliminary app.</p>

<p>While the percentages may indicate that USNA is tied with Brown University in selectivity, we need to take a look at the class profile. There is no way Brown is taking in a class in which 90+% earned a varsity letter. Many team captains, many All-State athletes are at the USNA. Brown probably takes in 90+% with National Honor Society. The USNA is about 60% in this category, but you must consider the diversity of the class. Some people are coming directly from the fleet as enlisted to be midshipmen. Chances are they had high SAT scores in high school, but did not make National Honor Society.</p>

<p>In all, you must jump through more hoops to gain an appointment at a SA than an acceptance to an IVY. While academic standards are not as stringent, they are still very, very competitive with 35% of the class scoring above 700+ on Math and Critical Reading.</p>

<p>Let me tell you this. The SA's are definitely taking in the most well-rounded applicants in the country, and I'll tell you why. I have many classmates who turned down IVY offers who are at USNA, including myself. I am willing to bet, like Whistle Pig stated that you will find more SA rejects at IVIES than you will IVY rejects at SA's. A good portion of Cadets/Midshipmen could gain admission to an IVY. The same probably cannot be said about IVY leaguers who would have to meet physical standards and leadership requirements in EC's.</p>

<p>And, it shows historically that some of our best leaders turned down IVIES. What would've happened if Chester Nimitz went to Princeton instead of USNA? Douglas MacArthur to Yale instead of West Point?</p>

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<p>Also,</p>

<p>According to my BGO, the USNA is NATORIOUS for rejecting the 1500+ SAT scorers who perform poorly in athletics and on the CFA.</p>

<p>It shows that even though you may see many people at USNA who appear out of shape or who even have difficulty passing the PRT, there are not that many. Each Academy takes physical requirements VERY SERIOUSLY and it shows in the admissions process.</p>

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<p>I've already posted my vote, but allow me to rhetorically respond to GoNavyXC's rhetorical question ...</p>

<p>
[quote]
What would've happened if Chester Nimitz went to Princeton instead of USNA? Douglas MacArthur to Yale instead of West Point?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>They well might have become a great admiral and general. When they were doing it, the Ivies EMBRACED our military and in fact both institutions offered Navy and Army ROTC and commissioned many great military leaders. Sadly, today they've shunned our military like they are the pariahs of our great nation. With only one foot on my soap box, it's that grand group of pariahs who protect the freedom of these places to harbor a great many who chronically spew anti-American propaganda, and all in the name of "academic freedom." There I feel better. :confused:</p>

<p>And I'll also pose a previously posed rhetorical observation on CC:</p>

<p>What would've happened if Admiral Nimitz, General MacArthur, and a great many more of the top leaders had not been available to lead our nation into and out of WW II?</p>

<p>Well, as I understand it, under the policies of our DoD today, neither would have been eligible to lead. :eek:</p>

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<p>leetx,</p>

<p>Your in box is full. Clean it out. I am trying to PM you.</p>

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<p>A discussion concerning how the entrance requirements of the Ivies compares to the Academies may make for a lively or even controversial discussion; in the end I don’t see what if anything is gained or ever resolved that discussion. Service Academies are fundamentally different entities with their own set of very distinct entrance challenges that in many cases have no parallel in civilian institutions.<br>
If you want to consider and discuss something meaningful; evaluate the differences in the education you will obtain from a SA and contrast that with the kind and quality of undergraduate education you will receive at any other college or university in the world. Consider the size of your classes and who will ultimately teach them. Will you be taught physics by a Nobel prize winner that you may see once at the start of the semester at one lecture and then spend the rest of the year in a class of 500 students stuck in a lecture hall with an associate professor or worse, just a TA or will you be in a small class of 20 students with a full professor at the head of the class starting on day one? In which scenario do you feel your educational needs will be best served?
Will you learn and develop leadership and interpersonal skills by taking a class about them or will you spend your entire four years in an institution not just learning about those skills but putting them to use on a practical basis most every day of your time there? Which path would you rather describe to a future employer as evidence of your worth as a potential employee?
Will you spend your summers working part time and hanging out with your friends or will you spend time on a Nuclear Sub in the Pacific, a Carrier in the Med, or a Destroyer off the coast of South America? Granted you may have some great opportunities in some of the Co-op programs available at more colleges these days, but few of them can compare with the summer experiences you will have as well as the opportunity to consider these experiences individually as potential career paths. </p>

<p>Concerning where this thread started; a discussion regarding SAT scores and where the cut off may be relative to obtaining a candidate number. Now we have;

[quote]
According to my BGO, the USNA is NATORIOUS for rejecting the 1500+ SAT scorers who perform poorly in athletics and on the CFA.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>The United States Navy and Marines for that matter accomplish their mission through the use of some of the most technologically sophisticated weapons systems and equipment in the world. </p>

<p>If your BGO is running around saying that I think someone should talk to him/her about how that observation is being framed and seen by the applicant pool. Think about what that says to people. If you’re a very bright student with a 1500+ and you show up out of shape for Plebe summer you’re going to be a very miserable Plebe, but if you are motivated and stick with the program chances are by the end of Plebe summer you’re going to be in much better shape than you were when you started and you’re going to start the academic year as the same bright student that began Plebe summer. Yes you have to get through Plebe summer and the mental and physical stresses associated with it, but if you can’t get through the academics of the next 4 years you are of no use to the Navy.
You can take a candidate that is less than a stellar athlete and through a conditioning program bring them up to a satisfactory level of physical performance. There is no process that I know of where you can take a great athlete and fundamentally change their raw intelligence by 6 or 7 weeks of mental exercises.
When the Commandant of Cadets addressed the parents of the Class of 2011 she commented that if you son/daughter showed up for Plebe summer in great condition, as a varsity athlete etc, they will have an easy time when it comes to the athletic portion of the summers challenges. She went on to say if your son/daughter came to the Academy in adequate shape, it’s going to be tough for them. She closed by saying if you son/daughter came to the Academy as a “scholar applicant” as she did, it’s going to be hell. Now I hope the Dant forgives my paraphrasing of her comments, but the bottom line is candidates that are not that athletically inclined but have great academic credentials do get in and in the end are likely to excel.
If you are brilliant and obese than the comments made by that BGO are true I’m sure. For that matter if you are the next Heisman trophy winner or ran a sub 4-minute mile in high school then once again all bets are off on how you will be treated relative to your academic record.
For the rest of the “normal” candidates out there, if you are a reasonably well rounded applicant that is very strong academically with limited physical achievement in sports there is certainly a place for you and I would most certainly encourage you to apply. I am sure you will be as strong if not stronger a candidate that then individual with a better athletic record and perhaps a less distinguished academic one.</p>

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<p>wow good info rjrzoom, thanks</p>

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<p>Quote:
According to my BGO, the USNA is NATORIOUS for rejecting the 1500+ SAT scorers who perform poorly in athletics and on the CFA. </p>

<p>My dd attended NASS, and did fair on CFA, but did badly the next day on PRT. Stats:</p>

<p>CFA: 35ft bb throw
almost made full pull-up, then 29 sec flexed arm
39 pushups
101 situps
7:41 mile</p>

<p>PRT: situps and pushups same, but 13 min for 1 1/2 miles</p>

<p>She is a c/o 2012 candidate, has 4.0 GPA unweighted, top ten in class, great recommendations, ECs.</p>

<p>We have been discussing whether these CFA/PRT stats will ruin her chances, and whether she should re-do the CFA with a coach or BGO. What do you think?</p>