<p>Great shot. The 101 situps is a perfect score. That's 33% of the test out of the way. With two years to go, it will not ruin their chance, just keep working.</p>
<p>rjrzoom57-</p>
<p>May I submit, in regard to the PRT/SAT discussion, that physical fitness coming in may be thought of as an indicator of motivation to gain and maintain a level of physical fitness. </p>
<p>Yes, one can gain a level of physical fitness through plebe summer, however, during the AC year no one is there getting you up to work out. One must be a self-starter and responsible for one's own fitness (as I understand it. I am not there, but I believe this to be the case. I am certain that someone will correct me if I am wrong :) ) </p>
<p>If y'all are still with me, (and you have probably already made this jump) if you are not already doing something that will contribute to your physical fitness, and you "need" plebe summer to whip you into shape, how, then will you maintain a proper level of fitness not only at any academy, but out in the fleet?</p>
<p>I believe this may be a portion of the thought behind the CFA. If someone is so smart, and fitness is not a priority, then perhaps they are not the right king of intelligent for a service academy. Different people have different priortiies and physical aptitudes. </p>
<p>Also, if someone makes great grades and scores while attending practices 4 hours per day nearly every day, in the case of swimming, year 'round, games or meets on weekends, and someone else makes a stellar showing, but does not have the same level of time commitment outside of academics, that is also very telling and goes to ability to prioritize time and academics. </p>
<p>Both are undoubtedly intelligent, and will continue to be after plebe summer, but perhaps their "smarts" are not as disparate as one would think by their scores when the time on task is compared. </p>
<p>Just my thoughts here. Opinions of others may vary. :)</p>
<p>2012mom? said "We have been discussing whether these CFA/PRT stats will ruin her chances, and whether she should re-do the CFA with a coach or BGO. What do you think?"</p>
<p>Don't worry about the rough scores on her summer seminar PRT. The officials know that it was done the day after the CFA. My son did something similar last year. He had a fair performance on the CFA and poor on the PRT (failing all except the flexibility). At the end of the seminar, he even told his squad leader that he didn't think he would pursue an appointment because of the physical demands. He had a change of heart and decided to go after it. He had very high academics (GPA, class rank, and standardized tests) and high ec like your daughter. He participated in Varsity sports and lettered both junior and senior years, but was never candidate for collegiate varsity athletics. In the year after summer seminar, he started taking the physical fitness more seriously, but never re-tested on either the CFA or PRT. In November or December, I don't remember which, he received his LOA.
He is now a plebe, almost ready to finish plebe summer. (5 more days!)</p>
<p>
[quote]
May I submit, in regard to the PRT/SAT discussion, that physical fitness coming in may be thought of as an indicator of motivation to gain and maintain a level of physical fitness
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I was responding to the notion that potential applicants might be be dissuaded by a poor initial performance on the physical side of testing. The suggestion that the Academy routinely blows away applicants with very high SAT scores that don’t score well on the physical side of testing was also a concern.
Some of those applicants may be highly motivated and participate in athletics that are less demanding in terms of strength and endurance. I would also ask that you consider the following: if the Academy can permit some degree of accommodation for athletes that aren’t as strong academically, which to your point might be indicative of something less than the maximum effort being expended on their part, don’t you think it would make sense that they would permit some level of accommodation for great students that have not excelled at the same level athletically? </p>
<p>I’m not suggesting that Plebes can show up out of shape so long as they are smart, or that applicants should only place emphasis on the academic side of the equation. If you want to have the greatest chance at getting into the academy you should strive to be a well-rounded applicant and that will obviously include some success in athletics. Once you are accepted and receive your reporting package you will receive a recommended work out schedule designed to bring you up to a higher level of physical conditioning prior to reporting. Given what is coming in terms of Plebe summer you would be wise to follow most if not all of the recommendation contained within. </p>
<p>In the end I guess you could distil my lengthy post down to this; if attending a service academy is something you really want to do, give it your all and don’t be dissuaded or discouraged by anything you read here or anywhere else for that matter. Stay focused on your objective, use your instincts, seek out mentors, consider but don’t necessarily act on all the advice given to you and be prepared to give it your all.</p>
<p>Perhaps I am misreading what is being posted....
but just want to make sure that new candidates keep things in perspective as best possible-
so in that vein, would offer the following re "accomodations"....</p>
<p>please keep in mind that "accomodations" are made for many-
minorities, women, low CFA, vision and other medical waivers, and athletes. </p>
<p>However, regardless of which group you are "assigned," there is not a doubt in my mind that if you do not come to the table with the "right goods to succeed" you will not be offered that appointment.....athlete or otherwise.</p>
<p>Honestly, it drives me nuts when anyone suggests that athletes are some how "less deserving," or "less academically equipped"....
perhaps one needs to meet some of them- heck, pick whatever sport you want- to realize that could not be further from the truth.
There are plenty of athletes sitting on the supe's and dant's list....
from all sports....
so making too many generalizations is, IMO, a mistake....</p>
<p>what the academy wants is "well rounded"....
academics+fittness+leadership
plain and simple.
it all matters, and it all counts.
great sat's, great leadership, poor CFA = no appointment.
great sat's, great leadership, great CFA = can still mean no appointment.
Lots of really great kids get admitted each year- and lots of really great kids get turned away.</p>
<p>There are 1220-or-so spots to fill, and lots of candidates seeking to fill them-
even the most steller athlete will not gain an appointment if the academics are not there to back it up- while coaches can "help," they can't work miracles with the admissions board.</p>
<p>The bottom line is that if you are serious about gaining one of those appointments, then make sure to take seriously- and do your very best on- every aspect of your application packet. GPA. SATs. CFA. ECAs. Recommendations. BGO interview. Everything. Those are the things that are in your control..... so concentrate your efforts on that. If your initial CFA is "ok" but you can improve it by 10% or more, then go for it.....
better yet, prep hard, take some practice tests, and submit your best effort on your initial go-around.</p>
<p>In the end, it all matters.....
and "getting in" is just the tip of the iceburg.....
and I will venture to say, that for some it is the "easy part"......</p>
<p>best of luck- and continue to work hard if USNA is your goal!</p>
<p>Actually, I don't think that athletes are made allowances for in regard to academics. They still have to make it through the courses everyone else has to. I think that Navy 2010 put it very well. </p>
<p>I don't believe I said that I thought that athletes were not expending the maximum effort academically. I did say that they have a great deal of experience at prioritizing and that they consequently don't have the same amount of time to spend on academics as students who are not obligated to a sport or a team. That's all. I do agree that those who are strong academically may have an easier time of it academically, but perhaps those who bring experience with athletics will have an easier time with the time constraints. As my son says, everyone has their cross to bear, or something that is difficult. </p>
<p>I do believe that it is important for each applicant to realize that the physical portion does not end with the CFA or Plebe summer, but there are PRT tests every semester that are graded. And there are tests semi-annually in the fleet. It is a lifestyle. So, as has been stated repeatedly, prepare! BTW getting the Naval Academy Workout book might be a good start on the physical side of things. </p>
<p>2012Mom? Encourage your DD to work to bring down the time on the run. (I am not sure what it is for the young ladies, I do know that it is 10.5 minutes for the guys, so she can't be that far off) I would say that the help of a coach as far as conditioning and technique would probably go a long way toward making your DD feel more comfortable with the run and more confident going in. It sounds like her stats fit the profile. She should definitely go for it. Maybe, like Kathie's son she will begin to take physical fitness more seriously. Good luck!</p>
<p>^^^^spot on!</p>
<p>I believe for ladies it's 12:30</p>
<p>12:40 for females.</p>
<p>My dd has been out of town almost all summer, but she told me recently that she's working on week 3 in the USNA workout book, at least for pushups, situps, pullups, etc. She also said that she has been either running or using an elliptical machine almost every day, from 3-7 miles at a time, because before NASS, she had not run long enough distances at a time. She will certainly keep up her conditioning this coming year. </p>
<p>I appreciate the encouragement in previous posts, but it's not clear whether you are recommending that she should or should not re-do a CFA with her BGO, and if so, how long she has to improve before doing so. All or her other materials are "in" (interview, NASS CFA, scores, evals, etc.).</p>
<p>2012, there are other people on this site (BGOs etc) that may have more detailed knowledge about time lines, hopefully one of them with weigh in with specifics for you, you may also reference the USNA web site, aside from that I do have one piece of useful information; my son didn't even start the process until fall of his senior year, he was focused on the Coast Guard Academy a a few private colleges up until that point when he starting looking at the Naval Academy. Visited the place through a CVW and said it was the first "college" he felt right at home at the moment he walked in the door.....it was a mad dash to the finish with lots to do in a short time, but he pulled it all together and made it across the finish line. It's only the first week in August, I know some may say get things done and in as early as possible, but I would also think about using some of the remaining time you have to put the best application possible in front of them.</p>
<p>"how does admission to a service academy like usma and usna compare with difficult/ivy league level universities like duke and columbia?"</p>
<p>I look at it like this:</p>
<p>Take the average Cadet/Mid and ask yourself, could they survive to graduate from Columbia/Duke/Harvard, etc....?</p>
<p>Then take your average Ivy Leager and ask yourself, could they survive to graduate from Annapolis or West Point?</p>
<p>Hmmmmm......</p>
<p>If I remember the comment correctly,
once you pass the CFA, there is no significant benefit to taking it over again.
The Acdemy will take your highest combination of SATs/ACTs; for the CFA, however, while it is a scored applicaiton item, it is mostly considered as to whether or not you pass.</p>
<p>I am confused about your concern re: the PRT. Passing the PRT is not an application issue. The PRT becomes important once the Academic year commences. In fact, one could fail the PRT during Plebe summer w/out immediate consequence, i.e one would not be dismissed for this.</p>
<p>If she passed the CFA, then concentrate on other matters, e.g. SAT scores, that are considered more heavily in teh application process.</p>
<p>I agree w/ RJR; my son did not complete his application--despite having attended summer seminar and completing the physical over the summer--until late. I think mid-January.<br>
He received an appointment letter in February nonetheless.
It all depends on your whole person score and CFA is a relatively small component of that.</p>
<p>So do you need 600/600 to get past the preliminarily application or not? I took the SAT once, and scored only 590 in verbal. On my psats from beginning of my junior year, I believe i scored 600 in both categories, but I'm not sure. </p>
<p>And... what the heck is the PRT? I passed the CFA, but What in god's name is PRT? Is this a naval academy thing only? </p>
<p>AND?</p>
<p>Does passing the CFA = end of story, don't worry about it, or should you be taking it over again, hoping to improve your score even more. </p>
<p>All i remember was that my mile was 7:02, and I passed... but I think I was real close to failing pushups. I was so tired after my pullups and did like only 50-60. Comments please?</p>
<p>If you "pass" the CFA, that is all you need to do....
but if you just "skimmed" a particular section (you mentioned pushups)...then I would work on those to see if you could improve.....
then retest- if you are able to increase your effort in all catagories (by a meaningful amount..... lets say 10% or so)....then resubmitt....
but if you have passed all sections with a "decent showing," then I would not retest.</p>
<p>PRT + physical readiness testing..... done twice a year once you are at the academy, and throughout your service career if I am correct. Think of it as a CFA...only the events change (no basketball throws on the PRT).... as do the times, which get more challenging with each year that passes. </p>
<p>I believe Bill posted re: peliminary SAT scores.... while 600 certainly puts you more in the running for an appointment, you will get the nod to continue with the application process (candidate number) with scores in the high-500 range.... but that comes along with knowing you need to get them up higher if you want to improve your chances at an appointment.</p>
<p>Just keep in mind other things factor into the peliminary application nod then just SATs.... so if, for some reason, you do not get a candidate number, and your scores are hitting the "peliminary range," then by all means contact your BGO to see where your application- even your peliminary one- needs to be improved.</p>
<p>Each step along the way must be mastered before you can move along in the applicaiton process....
getting through the peliminary application and securing a candidate number is just the first step of the process, but a necessary one. Keep in mind, candidate numbers are just going out now, and will continue to be issued over the months ahead.</p>
<p>Best of luck!</p>
<p>"Just keep in mind other things factor into the peliminary application nod then just SATs.... so if, for some reason, you do not get a candidate number, and your scores are hitting the "peliminary range," then by all means contact your BGO to see where your application- even your peliminary one- needs to be improved."</p>
<p>But... I am planning on taking the next 3 SATs, and I'm sure I will improve the scores. IF I happened to curve my psat score slightly, would that be okay (Not like the psat will matter during admissions anyway... I almost made 600) I really think I can be competitive in the long run for admission, but to think I'd get a book thrown at me before it even GETS near competitive, I'd be heartbroken XD</p>
<p>I would proceed with your plan- and not worry about the candidate number right now.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Forget the PSATs. Register and take SATs....see where they end up. In the end, it is the SAT scores, not the PSATs, that will count. So prep well, take them, and do the best you can- then take it from there. Just retaking the test can boost up your score by 100 points.....</p></li>
<li><p>Contact your BGO. Tell him/her of your interest in applying to USNA. Tell them that you have submitted a peliminary application, but as of yet, have not received a candidate number. Listen to what they suggest and follow that plan.</p></li>
<li><p>Don't give up the ship. Way, way too early!!!!! Don't "think" about being competetive.... BE COMPETETIVE. Hit those SAT review books. Go cut some lawns and get some $$$ together for a review class or tutoring in your weak area. GET GOING ON THIS LIKE YESTERDAY. </p></li>
</ol>
<p>and try to look at it this way....
USNA is a great goal-
but the goal should really be "great naval officer."
there are lots of ways to accomplish that other than USNA should an appointment not be offered.
so any effort you put in will not be effort lost---- you will still need to apply to other schools besides USNA..... (make sure you have back up plans in place----if not, that would be a mistake!)</p>
<p>Keep the faith!</p>
<p>PSAT's "count" as an admissions consideration when a student applies for Summer Seminar (NASS). </p>
<p>Not so sure it is a good idea to forget about PSAT's.</p>
<p>If we are still answering Leetx's original question on 600/600. He/she is a rising senior and is too late on the whole PSAT thing. Last chance to take it is October of Junior year since it is designed as a Junior level aptitude assessment and used for qualifying for National Merit honors.</p>
<p>It is used for NASS and prelim application if SAT's have not been taken to date. The problem here is PSAT does not do the original poster any good.</p>
<p>but we can still use the PSATs for a candidate number right? On the preliminary application they give you that option. I saw this because I did better on psat than on the actual SAT itself. I'm planning on taking the SAT again like 3 more times, but for now, I would rather use the psats to insure that I get a number. Is this okay?</p>