A letter to my college sophomore...what do you think?

Parent Cafe
181

<p>Shrinkrap: I mean this very respectfully. What were you hoping for when you posted? You credit few points posters make. </p>

<p>However, if your letter worked for you, your H and your D that’s a good outcome.</p>

<p>I still agree with many posters who say you are conflating various issues that have nothing to do with each other.</p>

<p>As I said, I have worried about my kids’ grades, too. Neither will graduate with an A average. I have made my peace with it. They were accepted into their dream schools where they are B+ students.</p>

<p>Most kids I have spoken with have considered transferring at some point. Not a big deal.</p>

<p>I really hope your D’s sophomore year goes well. Duke has a lovely campus and is an excellent school.</p>

182

<p>

That’s why it is quite possible that Shrinkrap’s D. thought she was doing what was necessary to get a better grade. Especially as a freshman, she might have thought the level of effort she put in during high school would suffice for a college course. </p>

<p>

And that’s why I speculated as to the reasons the D. was even enrolled in calculus. Perhaps she had the same idea – just wanting to get a requirement out of the way, figuring she’d be happy with a B… and discovering too late that she would have had to put in A+ effort in order to pull a C.</p>

<p>

And that’s why I’m a little skeptical about the whole “going to class” thing. Sometimes, with a poor instructor, it just makes things worse. Of course a student who does not go to class needs to make things up elsewhere – but particularly in a math course, a student might do better to work with a tutor or with a study group where she can get one-on-one support.</p>

183

<p>

</p>

<p>Because now you say she doesn’t want to leave Duke at all (particularly because of social / EC reasons). </p>

<p>Shrinkrap, when you give me a data point of “how she felt last Christmas, Dec 2008” and a data point of “how she felt over this summer break, June 2009, after she had another semester under her belt,” I’m going to weight the latter more heavily.</p>

184

<p>And that has probably been one of the more reassuring things from this thread. I wondered if it just seemed so much better because she was home. I DO believe it will be better</p>

<p>And in spite of apparent impressions to the contrary, tuition is paid. She is back in school. She left sunday. Never said anything to her about not being able to go back. I asked what she thought was reasonable. Did not say if she didn’t hit it she couldn’t go back. Just wanted her to have some options, and UC transfer apps are due early. I can see why this would have been taken badly</p>

<p>Thank you.</p>

<p>I know, I know, this is not an option. She can’t get in. She doesn’t like Science. She won’t be at the top of her class. I get it.</p>

<p>And with regard to why i posted this. Many people seem to have asked how to make their expectations clear. I know it tends to be for soon to be Freshman. We did do it than, but I know I made some mistakes. Said as much in my first post. Thought I’d ask this time. </p>

<p>I also feel I have said thank you about several points. I DO appreciate the feedback I’ve gotten. I have just struggled when I felt I was being misquoted or misunderstood. </p>

<p>So thank you all, for helping me see the following:</p>

<p>I definitely get that folks think I am mixing too many issues. The way I see it, I mixed my daughters efforts with our own. I was willing to get another job to replenish the family funds, but I realized i would be resentful if I didn’t thinking she was rising to the challenge. didn’t realize that was such a problem, or that it would cause so much consternation. </p>

<p>And speaking of math, is NO ONE impressed that Duke has a special class for kids who score below 680 on the math SAT? That’s like the 95 percentile or something, and they have to have a special class? And on a curve, she got a D? I find that intimidating. And yes, it is a requirement, and yes, she decided to take it. And she did make an effort. Again, about the math, I was disappointed, but more scared. She has to take another math course as well.</p>

<p>I was irritated about the skipping classes. Maybe going to class is not always helpful, but if a teacher says come x times to get y grade, and you don’t, how do YOU interpret that? I mean if you are doing well, do what you want, but if you could use a little GPA boost, why not go?</p>

<p>I know I can’t monitor this, and i know she won’t always go, but believe it or not, it will work for a little while, and mabye she will see the wisdom without the incentive. She wouldn’t bother lying about it for something like that, and I wouldn’t bother asking, but she might be able to use the idea enough to get out of the bed.</p>

<p>I also realize made a math mistake. Someone mentioned $4000 minus her $750 was not $4000. Agreed. </p>

<p>THANK YOU!</p>

<p>FWIW, she is WAY better at math than me… The new thing i learned is that I can pay the interest now, saving her money in the future, and I thought this would make an interesting incentive. Like the slightly better GPA, and going to class. Not a big issue. Just a thought. </p>

<p>Some think this is BAD IDEA .Thank you.</p>

<p>I definitely get that some think parents should not have feelings about, or share their feelings about intended majors with their kids. </p>

<p>I get that many feel parents should not worry about a college kids grades.</p>

<p>And maybe once you say okay, you should not have, or share second thoughts.</p>

<p>If you make rules, anticipate that you may have to change them, or DON’T change them.</p>

<p>And if your kid shares second thoughts, do not take them seriously unless they are in the summer. ( okay, i am overstating that one, but again, you may not understand the gravity of the situation this winter)</p>

<p>And many feel that it is inappropriate to tie your own efforts to your child’s. I still have a hard time with that, but i asked, </p>

<p>so thank you.</p>

185

<p>Wow, I agree with FLVAdad- Many folks here are being, IMO, unnecessarily harsh. </p>

<p>I totally agree with mythmom. Learning to write well is a very important skill. I sometimes cringe at the stuff written by supposedly well educated people. It is, in many cases, how we present ourselves to others, and an English major can be invaluable in many careers. And it doesn’t matter what one’s major is if a person happens to choose to do the premed requirements as well. In fact, oftentimes med schools (if she chose to go that route) like a well rounded person with a non-science major. Ditto for pre-law students. Major doesnt really matter. Hey, someone posted in another thread that John Edwards (of slimeball two-timing politician fame) majored in textile technology before going to law school.</p>

<p>So why did OP’s dau take math? I am guessing it was part of a requirement or core course (I forget what Duke’s requirements are in that regard). But contrary to Calmom’s assertions, I do not see evidence in OP’s posts that math “isnt her strong point”. Scoring at the 25%ile for Duke still means around a 690 on the Math SATI. Thats not too shabby. Come on people. And do we really know that OP didn’t ask her dau why she got the D, or do we only know that the details weren’t perhaps shared here. Seems like a lot of people are jumping to conclusions without the data to support it. </p>

<p>OP’s dau got into her dream, reach school. They went for it because they could. Several things have changed. Time to revisit the situation and variables that go into weighing the pros/cons of continuing to pay for an elite education. Happens all the time. Lighten up folks.</p>

<p>And while FLVADAD’s dau blossomed in math in college, some do, others don’t. As he said, the professor has a lot to do with it as well. For some professors teaching freshman classes English isn’t their first language. And maybe the TA wasnt good or wasn’t available (I am guessing a large freshman math class at Duke would have a TA). My s tutored a girl this summer who was taking calculus at a local college. Girl goes to Auburn. Hard worker, supposedly reasonably intelligent. Worked hard, arranged for some (not a ton, but several hours worth) tutoring with my s who she found to be extremely helpful- felt ready- took the next test- got a 55. There are those who will put in the effort and just don’t get the outcome they hope for. We simply don’t know, and if the op wishes to share more details, thats fine. In this hostile environment, I don’t blame her for choosing another option.</p>

<p>If posters disagree with the way the letter was drafted here, or the multiple messages it contained, ok. Take issue with that. But please stop dissecting the perceived motives, intent, hidden agendas or meta messages believed to be behind the letter, the parents and the dau. She is the shrink- not you… I don’t really see that the OP is projecting her personal issues re: education or whatever onto her dau. I think thou doth protest too much…</p>

186

<p>I hope your DD has a most awesome sophomore year!</p>

187

<p>Agreed, mominva!</p>

<p>And FWIW, there are outside scholarships available for upperclassmen. DD may want to look into those that could help defray some of the cost of next semester’s or next year’s tuition. After all, with that top score in writing, she can probably write a crackerjack essay for the scholarships!</p>

188

<p>shrinkrap: As I’ve said, one thing we agree on – it’s scary. These ultra-competitive schools do have kids for lunch sometimes.</p>

<p>For my S it made him reevaluate his major and get on a more solid plan.</p>

<p>Still, it is scary.</p>

<p>And yes, I see what you mean by a remedial class for kids who score under 680, and a D on a curve there too. Scary stuff.</p>

189

<p>

</p>

<p>For what it’s worth my daughter’s math SAT was 580. </p>

<p>Here college (Barnard) does have a math requirement, or at least “quantitative reasoning” requirement- but it does not require calculus. My d. opted to take statistics, in part because I told her I thought it would be useful for her major (poli sci – I think it is useful for people with careers in politics or government to understand what all those numbers on charts and graphs mean). However, she could have filled the requirement with some other, even less mathy classes – such as a course in logic. I think Columbia even offered several different “levels” for introductory statistics - course #1001 has a prerequisite of “some high school algebra”, while course #1111 requires “intermediate high school algebra” and course #1211 requires a semester of calculus. My d… took 1111, but probably would have been happier in the easier #1001. Scheduling issue. (Situation complicated somewhat by the issue Jym626 referenced – I don’t think my daughter’s math instructor had enough of a command of the English language to address the needs of many of his students, and d. complained that it was tough to understand his accent at times). </p>

<p>I’m surprised actually if Duke doesn’t offer a somewhat easier route for non-science majors than calculus. </p>

<p>It;s not a matter of dumbing down the college curriculum – its a matter of specialization. My d was appalled at how weak some of the students were in her first-year writing course – and I’m sure some of those student would be equally appalled at my daughter’s weak math skills. </p>

<p>I think that its good that her college requires a broad exposure in its general ed requirements – it has forced my d. to take some classes she would not otherwise have considered, and certainly she has learned a lot. But I think its reasonable to expect that a kid who is taking a course outside their comfort zone might not do all that well.</p>

190

<p>This is a fascinating discussion. It seems the basic issue is parents’ willingness to negatively affect their own well being (psychological and financial) for their children’s educations. The second issue is the child’s degree of responsibility for the educational outcome and accountability to the parents for utilizing their investment.</p>

<p>I find the number of references to Duke’s $50,000 price tag and expensive cars humorous. The issue isn’t the ability to pay that particular amount (or not), but the degree of sacrifice required of a family regardless of the dollar amount.</p>

<p>Families of modest means may contribute what seems a pittance compared to $50,000, but as a percentage of their incomes it requires more sacrifice than that described by the OP.</p>

<p>As parents we vary dramatically in our willingness to invest time and money in our children. One huge variable is meeting the individual needs of very different children. It’s almost impossible to generalize about one parent’s approach without actually living the circumstances.</p>

191

<p>Well said HRSFRM. I totally agree.</p>

192

<p>I knew that if I just hung with this thread long enough, we’d find some agreement.</p>

193

<p>Ok, what did we just agree on? Someone should summarize it before we disagree.:)</p>

194

<p>I’m going with these two things.</p>

<p>“I hope your DD has a most awesome sophomore year!”</p>

<p>and</p>

<p>“As parents we vary dramatically in our willingness to invest time and money in our children. One huge variable is meeting the individual needs of very different children. It’s almost impossible to generalize about one parent’s approach without actually living the circumstances.”</p>

195

<p>Probably as good as it’s going to get Youdon’tsay :)</p>

196

<p>Count me in.</p>

<p>Should the moderator close this thread now? Amen.</p>

197

<p>“Families of modest means may contribute what seems a pittance compared to $50,000, but as a percentage of their incomes it requires more sacrifice than that described by the OP.”</p>

<p>Not sure I understand but let me add this.</p>

<p>My husband is “1st gen”, and I am second. Neither of our parents gave us anything, and instead, I think we were both grateful that we were not asked to send money home while we were in school. I still have questions ( and I am grateful my time in the military did not turn out to be a bad thing.) My husband, not so much. He IS, after 20 years, still paying loans. AND he IS willing to listen when I say wait. Does this make my perspective right? I am not as sure as some.</p>

<p>Ooooh! A moderator closed thread! THAT would be something!</p>

198

<p>Shrinkrap: Outcomes make take a long time to be assessed. And you’re right. There are multiple points of view based on personal history, philosophy.</p>

199

<p>I’ll go with that! I second the wishes for Shrinkrap’s D to have a great sophomore year, and for Shrinkrap / H to enjoy much financial success!</p>

200

<p>Shrinkrap, </p>

<p>What I meant by my comment is that degree of sacrifice can’t be determined by the amount of money spent. $50.000 for one might require less sacrifice than $500 for another, depending on the total household resources. As 1st and 2nd gens, you’re undoubtedly well aware of how fast one’s circumstances can change.</p>

<p>Only you and your spouse, knowing your particular child, can determine what is reasonable for all of you. People love to give advice; unfortunately much of it is irrelevant :).</p>