<p>Yes. At the same time, D1 didn’t think about joining a sorority until she went to college, maybe she was (we were) naive.</p>
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As I think about this, I would modify it to the following: every kid should look into the social setting at the schools he or she is considering, and determine if that’s a good fit. The Greek scene, if there is one, is just a part of that broader question.</p>
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<p>See - that’s precisely the kind of thing that feels unappealing to me and signals “we’re talking about an over-the-top system.” Why should a system be set up to privilege those girls who come from upper-middle-class, mother-and-her-friends-all-attended-colleges-and-know-what’s-what-with-recs? That tells me already the system isn’t open to girls from lower socioeconomic backgrounds who might not have college educated parents, it’s not open to girls from immigrant families or from other countries who wouldn’t know anything about a Greek system until they got to campus.</p>
<p>Not to mention the “OOS so we don’t know people we can get recs from.” In my experience, recs can be from someone who was in that sorority at any location. Why does it have to be a rec from someone who attended the U of Alabama? That’s another signal to me of a “closed” system, not welcoming to those not from Alabama. </p>
<p>Granted, our Platonic forms of things are typically from our own experience, but I see no reason why a rec shouldn’t be similar to an alumni interview at a college – hey, it could provide some useful info and make someone stand out a bit in the crowd, but if you don’t have it, you’re not put at a disadvantage.</p>
<p>One way to do some more research about particular colleges might be to take a look at their campus newspapers. For example, after reading the above, I went to UA’s paper and searchef for “sororities.” This is one of the first few hits:
[Sororities</a> should apply for seating | The Crimson White](<a href=“HRC addresses housing issues – The Crimson White”>HRC addresses housing issues – The Crimson White)
That, perhaps, gives you a little window into what the social setting is at UA. It’s probably incomplete, and maybe unfair, but if you’re looking at that school, you might want to read a lot more.</p>
<p>Recs can be submitted by any one who is an alumni of any chapter/house. So it is not a requirement that they be from AL. But being from the Midwest, I’m not really sure if we know that many people who were Greek. </p>
<p>Please don’t make this a big deal. It really is not to us. After much research and time spent talking to the wonderul folks on the UA CC site, I understand that because of the popularity of the system, Rec’s are just one way to differentiate between candidates. They are not a deal breaker, but they help. </p>
<p>Honestly, I know that when the company I work for has a job opening we use many different ways to move thru the 1000 resume’s we may get for a job. College degree, school, time in workforce, experience, all are used to find the best fit. Not really a big difference…It’s not elitism…it’s a way to differentiate candidates. </p>
<p>Not sure how this would tell you that the system is not open to lower socio economic backgrounds…Rec’s help, but they do not automatically eliminate a candidate. It would make it tougher, but not impossible. As it has been explained to me.</p>
<p>And if only 20% or even 30% of the campus is Greek, then well, it seems to me that the non Greeks have way more influence than the Greeks do anyway. 70% is pretty much a super majority no matter what your party choice is. lol</p>
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<p>I don’t think being from the midwest would make a difference. All the midwestern flagship state universities have good-sized Greek systems, as do many (most?) of the directional / smaller state universities.</p>
<p>Speaking as the mom of a guy who joined a fratenity at an SEC school, one thing I have noticed about sorority recruitment at his school (and at other large southern universities that I am familiar with) is the amount of preparation it takes before even arriving on campus in the fall. S’s high school held a meeting at the end of senior year for senior girls who were interested in going through sorority recruitment at their respective universitites. It was basically an overview of how the rush process worked, how to find recs and deadlines for submitting them, etc. S’s freshman orientation also included optional sessions on Greek life that pretty much covered the same information. Some schools, like S’s, hold recruitment the week before classes start so one also needs to plan for an earlier arrival as well if one wants to rush. </p>
<p>Girls who haven’t given any thought to recruitment prior to coming to campus in the fall of their freshman year would not be able to participate in fall recruitment, given the advance planning that is required. However, the process is not secretive and the information about recruitment, how to prepare for it, etc. is not limited to only upper middle class or in-state kids or alumni’s kids - it’s pretty transparent in my opinion, all on the school’s website. As to the recs, I’ve written a few for girls I knew, as well as for those I didn’t know but who contacted me through my alumni group, all for schools that I did not attend. The forms are pretty bland and don’t ask for anything ridiculous like family income, occupation, etc. Most houses seem to require them to get your foot in the door but that’s about it, and it seems more like a formality, IMO. </p>
<p>I think what is being insinuated on this thread about sorority recruitment at southern schools being a closed process may be related to social networking between current sorority members and PNM’s that extends back to high schools and home towns. I have heard things like “girls from St Mary’s HS in Birmingham all join Tri-Delt at UA,” etc. and have observed this at S’s school, where some houses have clusters of several girls from the same HS. I am not sure if this is a Southern phenomenon or just the product of being a large state university that tends to draw a lot of kids from the surrounding region, as the SEC schools are. I’m sure it happens less at schools that have a more geographically diverse student body. I can, however, see where this could be a huge issue at a school like Indiana, where they have too few spaces to accommodate too many girls who want to join, and where OOS girls or those who don’t already have some connection to the houses may have a disadvantage. The laws of economics state that when supply is limited demand goes up - and that, IMO, is when things can get ugly.</p>
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<p>This is just personal, of course, but that’s precisely something I don’t want for my children’s college experience. I didn’t want them going to college with all-the-same-people-they-went-to-high-school-with and actively discouraged my S from applying to his legacy school that’s in our backyard for that reason (which of course he promptly ignored, but whatever). I highly value a national, diverse base. That may not be important to everybody, of course, but if a large part of a college’s social scene is related back to high school hometown contacts, that’s something to be aware of.</p>
<p>My so is also at an SEC university. Totally agree with everything Psi says. For sororities, you generally have to understand the process before arriving on campus and be prepared for it all, which includes clothing requirements. At son’s school, there is a published guide to rushing (I believe it’s on the school’s website).</p>
<p>At son’s school, incoming freshman arrive on Sat and rush starts on Sun. Classes don’t even start until Thursday, so basically Sun-Wed is all about rush for many students.</p>
<p>As for UA - we don’t live in Alabama but it’s nearby and we send at least a half-dozen students there a year. All of the students join fraternities and as far as I know no one has been shut out and they generally make it a point not to join the same organization. The problem I have seen is sometimes students get their hearts set on certain fraternities/sororities and if they don’t get a re-invite from that particular house, they decide that they aren’t going to go Greek and they drop out of the process in the middle of rush. That’s fine but it’s not that they couldn’t join any fraternity, they just didn’t get a bid for a certain fraternity. Buzymom2, I would advise your daughter not to go in with preconceived notions of which sorority she has to join. That’s where people get disappointed. If she needs recs, I would contact someone on the Greek council at school and see how to do that if she doesn’t know anyone. It really is just a formality at a lot of schools. </p>
<p>Also - I’m not 100% about UA but at a lot of schools, it is possible to rush 2nd semester freshman year or as an upperclassman. Son’s fraternity had just as many pledges 2nd semester as they did 1st semester. Sororities (because of their size) don’t always have as many free spots but at my son’s school the sororities do allow non-freshman to rush and reserve a certain number of slots for them.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl, I honestly did not envision my son going to the school he chose, but it was his decision and it was the best fit for him, for many reasons, and I fully support it. The point I was trying to make in my last post is that the cliqueishness, exclusivity, etc. regarding sorority recruitment that is often solely attributed to Southern schools on threads like this may in fact not be limited to schools in the South, and may instead reflect the general social atmosphere of state universitites that draw much of their student bodies from local regions. I’m not an expert on sorority recruitment and think that the SEC-type recruitment may be more formal and require more up-front preparation than other schools, which may not be everyone’s cup of tea. However, I do get tired of the constant bashing of Southern greek systems that often occurs on threads like this, as I think it may not be entirely warranted.</p>
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<p>I’m not aware that at U of Illinois (my state flagship), it’s “the kids from this high school join this house and the kids from that high school join that one.” That’s a dynamic I’ve never heard, but I can investigate further. I’ve also never heard the concept of trying to “recruit” or scout out over the summertime. It just doesn’t seem to be the great big deal that it does in the SEC schools.</p>
<p>PG- I can tell you that D1’s sorority also scout out over the summer via FB and freshman directory. They are assigned X number of students to look up. In the fall, they make a point of getting to know some of those girls better. D1 equates the whole process similar to company doing recruiting and applicants applying for jobs. She said it is really all about supply and demand when it comes to who has an upper hand. She said one has to be mentally strong and confident to go through the rush process. As much as she has enjoyed her sorority, she does has some issues with it being exclusive sometimes.</p>
<p>I think sororities culture differ from college to college. At DD’s college the process is quite transparent
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<p>There seems to be some discussion about the fit that relates to dressing and communication style but not in any derogatory sense.
There is an unofficial ranking of the sororities from highly selective to least selective. There is a larger % cut at highly selective to almost 100% acceptance at the least selective, so everyone who rush have a 100% placement into a sorority.
Only those girls who think they are above some sororities and didn’t get invite from the ones they think worthy of their presence actually are not placed.</p>
<p>It’s not only sororities that think they are too good for some girls but there are girls who think they are too good for some sororities.</p>
<p>** So what’s the problem?**</p>
<p>Back in the day my university program ran much like the one POIH is quoting. I found most girls who accepted all their invites were offered membership in a house. The ones who did not receive a bid at the the end of the process were the ones who rejected a house or two because they felt it was not a fit for them. (Sometimes this was true, sometimes the girls were feeling better than the houses they were invited back to. Either way it is a two way street.) The year I graduated I returned as a PRC and I really appreciated the PRC’s encouraging the girls going through rush to trust the process and max out their invites. The greek system can be great for those who choose it, it can also be a poor choice for some.</p>
<p>Several pages ago I meant to chime in with a comment about my son’s very positive experience with his fraternity. And then life went on, and by the time I returned to this thread the discussion had moved to details about sorority recruiting. I’m a complete sorority idiot. Never was in a sorority, knew some girls who were, but our college was truly a “whatever works for you” place. We never talked about sorority life. As an adult, it has, again, just not been on my radar. </p>
<p>So I have to say, this discussion about the ins and outs of the sorority recruitment process at some schools is all new to me. As the discussion on this thread continues I’m becoming more taken aback at the whole thing. From the perspective of a true Greek outsider, with no personal reasons to like or dislike the generic idea of any sorority, I’m uncomfortable with what I’ve been reading in the past page or two, and it is swaying my opinion of at least some sororities at some schools. As always, I learn something new in every thread, and for that, I thank you all.</p>
<p>As for my own son, he’s at a large state flagship, where he had no initial interest in pledging a fraternity. Some of his friends pledged, some didn’t. During his sophomore year my usually happy, outgoing, social son was moping around (post unexpected breakup with a girl), and several friends who were in a fraternity urged him to pledge to “get your head in a different place”. He did, and feels that was one of the best decisions he could have made at the time. His pledge experience involved no hazing, but included a lot of self reflection, a lot of talking in a deeper, more personal way than most boys and men tend to experience. He felt that the pledge process was one of the best experiences of his life. He has since taken on some leadership roles in his fraternity. It was a route none of us could have predicted for him, but it has been a positive experience, without a doubt.</p>
<p>I was a poor girl with a hick accent and joined the same sorority that is the subject of the original post. We did things a little differently in my chapter than some others did. Much to the chagrin of the national, we largely ignored recommendations. We didn’t require them and we didn’t pay much attention to them. We were a very eclectic group- tall, short, brainy, plain, pretty, skinny, overweight, party girls, girls who never partied, etc. I think we all had great senses of humor. Other than that, I have no idea how we ended up in the same sorority. There were other sororities that were more homogenous. There were a few girls who were very wealthy but I didn’t really know it until after graduation and I attended a couple of their weddings. One girl’s family brought dinner to our supper club from New York in their Lear jet so I did know they had money. Honestly, would not have known it from anything else about this girl. I was able to save money being in the sorority because I got most of my meals free by serving or cooking through our supper club.</p>
<p>ah cartera45, thanks for the refreshing story.</p>
<p>For those schools where recs are highly recommended like FSU, UT, SMU, IU, TCU young ladies should first ask friends and family. Teachers, church, family friends, etc. The question to ask is simple, “Were you or any of your friends in a sorority during college?” Ask men as well, since they may have met women in college that were in sororities. Once you get the names, ask them to send letters of rec (each national will have a different form available on their member website). If you still cant find people in you area, contact the local panhellenic in your area. Here is an example of a chapter website:</p>
<p>[Chicago</a> NW Suburban Panhellenic](<a href=“http://cnwsap.org/]Chicago”>http://cnwsap.org/)
Of course, be sure to thank the member that writes the rec with a think you notes and follow up with wherever you pledged. Common courtesy, after all.</p>
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<p>The summer parties go on here also. I think it can be a good idea but it needs to be as inclusive as possible. It can be difficult for out of state students to participate, thereby, giving in-state students an advantage. But when you stop and think about it there is usually only a few days to make a decision about who to offer bids to and which fraternity/sorority you want to join. It is very much like applying for a job. People get jobs all the time based upon a lot ‘superficial’ things about them that might or might not make the person a good fit. And otherwise good applicants get overlooked. Unfortunately, as an employer you have no choice but to make a decision based upon what little information you have. It’s pretty much the same thing with rush. There really is no perfect system, although I like the idea of waiting until 2nd semester to do rush instead of immediately after they arrive on campus.</p>
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<p>I think this is a pretty good observation, and I’m willing to bet that it’s a little bit of both in many cases.</p>
<p>Houses vary from school to school; the house that is usually made fun of/considered a “low level” house at my alma mater is the most “popular” and sought after sorority at my sister’s school. Similarly, the popular and notoriously “exclusive” and “mean” houses at my alma mater were sororities that my best friends in high school ended up joining at their schools and had positive experiences in.</p>
<p>I don’t think every national chapter can really monitor the selection process of each school’s chapter. I know the nationals do a good job in policing the general perception of their chapters, but they can’t fix everything, you know?</p>