A Question About the Student Mindset

@usma87, I can’t specifically answer your questions about the culture at Notre Dame because I know very little about the school. I’m just aware that Notre Dame is a highly selective Catholic University. While it’s possible you may feel you’re not in sinc with the overall vibe of the school after you get there, I do imagine the University is large and multidimensional enough that you can find enough intellectual stimulation to get you successfully to the next stage in your life. Maybe in retrospect you will think another college or university would have fit you better than Notre Dame (most of us have some regrets in life) but I do think there will be people… advisors, professors, a few fellow-students… who will inspire, guide and challenge you in the ways that you need. Somehow we must all keep wobbling forward in life even when we feel unbalanced by things we wish were different! I admire your idealism even when it’s not in line with how the world generally works. There’s a saying that states something along the line of “happiness is where aptitude and opportunity meet” and I’m wishing that opportunity for you. In the meantime, my advice would be to keep going on the path you’ve carved with Questbridge and keep doing the excellent work you have already done (or you wouldn’t have earned this scholarship) and I think that fine mentors at Notre Dame and elsewhere will help you find your way. I’m not trying to give you a “pat” or easy answer. I don’t tend to say this sort of thing (I’m not the sort of person who always thinks everything turns out for the best for everyone) but in this case I sincerely mean it. It’s hard to move forward when you can’t see the future but I think you can do this successfully…one step at a time.

@usma87
You misunderstand me. My strict tone does not imply you are slackers. I was trying to say that I am a person of few words, which sometimes comes off as haughtiness.
I didn’t say I wasn’t aware of famous engineers; there are plenty. I just haven’t found any engineers that inspire me.

@inthegarden
Thank you. I think your last paragraph perfectly summarizes how I feel, which is sometimes hard to express.
I definitely haven’t tried to be rude or dismissive of advice. In fact, I would say that the people who have answered my questions have succeeded in improving my view of the university. I now understand that Notre Dame can serve all interests, from idealistic to practical. What’s more, the arguments I’ve seen have convinced me that an open-minded attitude is best for my first year as far as major selection is concerned. As such, I am open to the possibility of engineering and will try to fit in the appropriate introductory sequence to explore that avenue before making final decision.

@QB18ND23 , study what you like. Ask what else you’ll need to use what excites you intellectually to pay the bills. It sounds like engineering could be a program that starts you off in the right direction. And yes, people do get PhDs in engineering!

ND is a great school. It is, based on friends and family who have attended, more pre-professional than some other schools. Many see that as a positive. But if you do not, you can still have a life of the mind experience if that’s what you want.

Go in with an open mind. Embrace the learning experience. And as you plan your schedule throughout the years and talk to your advisors and the career office, understand how you can use what you love to earn a living. Professors who have stayed in academia for a “pure” experience have had to learn how to tweak research projects to get funding, to get TA positions to show they can teach, etc. Nobody is immune in this regard.

@inthegarden re: post 80 - ?? What part of ‘87’ did you miss. I’m a parent that graduated from USMA in’87. Not a student.

I wish this student all the luck in the world. I do not pretend to understand all the perspectives listed recently, and have stated so. They will find a warm, welcoming environment of intellectual learning. GO IRISH!

@usma87 Yes, your observation in terms of Notre Dame certainly is correct and I fully agree with your assessment. Having said this, it is equally true that Notre Dame is not an optimal fit for every student, as well as any student is not necessarily a good fit with Notre Dame. Thus far, the Office of Undergraduate Admissions has done a nice job in identifying mutual fit from both sides, as evidenced by an exceptional high 98% First/Sophomore Year return rate. One can only hope that fit will continue to play an equally important role as one of several selection criteria going forward. How it will play out in this specific case naturally still needs to be seen - I am pretty sure we will hear all about it on this forum come August.

@usma87, my mistake! In my hurry I accidentally used your username instead of OP’s.

Hi, I’m going to answer your first question about the mindset of the students. I have a daughter currently at ND and I’ve met many of her friends in the Marching Band, in her major, and in the dorms. We live within an hour of the school and we have had many of their friends to our house. I would say the ND student is driven to be the best they can be, and for each person that will mean different things. For the most part I have seen students following their passion rather than following the money. As the Marching Band is made up of 38% Engineers I have met many of them and they have gone into it because they like the challenge of the work and doing things like making cement canoes and robot football. They work hard to get good internships, but when they talk about them it’s all about the job not the salary potentail later.
Almost all of her friends have done at least one service trip – so many opportunities to do that. And a number of them have gone on to do the ACE program or other programs where you volunteer for a year. Notre Dame is known for it’s social justice work – you will see it all over.

You will find your friends in your dorm, through clubs, work, and other activities. Sometimes it will be as easy as a really good roommate, sometimes you have to work harder at it. My older daughter wanted none of the party atmosphere her first year at her school. Her first weekend in the dorm she waited til most people left for the parties and then knocked on doors with her roommate and invited the other students to join them in the lobby for some playing of Apples to Apples.

So, I don’t think you are overreacting – it is right to be nervous about such a major change in your life…but I would like to bet in a year you will be on these forums advising a new freshman that they will find there “home-away-from-home” at Notre Dame.

Highly recommend that you not form any preconceived opinions regarding STEM degrees. Statistically speaking most universities want to show the earning potential of their graduates. For those graduating with student loan debt, the cost reward factor is important especially considering the amount of debt that could be incurred to go to Notre Dame. I would suggest that you go to the College of Engineering orientation on Welcome Weekend. I have 2 sons one graduated with a Civil Engineering degree the other is pursuing his Civil Engineering degree…what sold them on Civil was everything Notre Dame does to give back to the community, the impact on society as a whole, the opportunities abroad to help with infrastructure in less fortunate countries. The presentation wasn’t at all about money. It was about making life better for others. I think you were quick to judge and completely got it wrong…

Notre Dame has a philosophy that students should be “a force for good”. Here is an example of what ND engineering students do:

https://www.southbendtribune.com/news/community/moor/south-bend-tween-literally-gets-helping-hands-from-notre-dame/article_a893895d-8fde-5aaf-b8dc-b588c760235b.html

@QB18ND23 As others have noted, there will be a lot of changes in 4 years. I attended Notre Dame’s sister school (Saint Mary’s) with the intention of participating in the 3-2 engineering program (allowing me to earn a degree from both SMC and ND). For 3 semesters I pursued that route (given my strength in math/science), but I ultimately realized I hated engineering. I mean, I really hated it. I had no passion for it and found it dull. So, in semester 4, I switched to social work, loved it, and earned a BSW. After graduation, I had a couple of short term jobs before ultimately being accepted into a competitive commercial banking training program. This ex-engineering major with a BSW has been a commercial lender for 30 years (which really doesn’t make a lot of sense!) The point is, life is a journey and it’s going to take you in directions that seem odd from where you are sitting now. Four years at Notre Dame (or Saint Mary’s) will shape you. Keep your eyes open. You’ll find a major that satisfies your passions. In the meantime, don’t sweat it. Take the physics/engineering track and if it doesn’t feel right, find something else that does. Best of luck and I hope someday you will realize the value of the gift you have been given.

And so that you better understand what some of the ND engineers are involved in, take a look at these.

https://fightingfor.nd.edu/2018/fighting-to-protect-our-community/

https://fightingfor.nd.edu/2018/fighting-for-the-human-heart/

Just saw this article, which gives another example of ND’s focus on the common good – and in this case it is in an area (real estate) which can typically be driven by greed. I know it has nothing to do with engineering, but it just shows how this school will take any area of focus (even business) and make it about giving back. https://news.nd.edu/news/notre-dames-fitzgerald-institute-promotes-the-common-good-through-real-estate/

@lastone03
Might I ask what it was about engineering that you hated? After doing some more reading about engineeeing work over the past few weeks, I came to the realization that it can be very dull, as you put it. I always heard about engineers “designing and testing” new inventions, but those almost seem like buzzwords for what in truth is something as “glamorous” as optimizing the size of a pre-existing screw type on an airplane. Sure, it’s important to the whole, but I’d feel very unaccomplished doing that kind of work.

@QB18ND23 It wasn’t a calling for me and it didn’t suit my personality. I think it’s important for students to figure out what they are passionate about and pursue an occupation that satisfies the passion.

@QB18ND23 - earlier I mentioned a student from my son’s hall as an example of the community present at Notre Dame. The most recent ND Observer has a nice write-up about him. The article is here https://ndsmcobserver.com/2019/07/nd-remembers-chris-westdyk/ . I realize it is not completely on point, but student mindset and the sense of community go together in my mind.

Engineering as a career might not be for everyone but with the rigors of obtaining an engineering degree, many employers, not restricted to engineering, have an appreciation for what someone with an engineering degree brings to their employment…I had an ND alum who is now a prominent physician in my area say that outside of pre-med, no one puts in more time studying than engineers…the hard work and difficulty bodes well for future employment regardless of career choice…my DS has an engineering degree from ND…he flies helicopters in the US Navy…maybe not a direct correlation to his degree, but he is required to know everything about the systems that make up that aircraft…ND gives you the opportunity to be anything you want to be.

My father, a ND grad, gave me some great advice: “If you don’t know what to do, pick something, aim for it, and you’ll figure it out along the way.” Life is short. Have fun. You seem overly serious for someone so young. I don’t think it is lack of humility but rather a difficult upbringing. My father had a very tough childhood and also may well have had Asperger’s Syndrome but he loved life and owed a tremendous debt of gratitude to ND. I wish for you what my father had and the big break in his life was to get into ND.