@Rivet2000
I think you nailed it. As of now, I’d have difficulty being proud of being an engineer. I can’t name a single engineer I could strive to be like. Now Michael Faraday — there’s someone I can treat as a role model.
@QB18ND23 Quite frankly, the conversation on this thread somehow begins to feel like groundhog day.
Look, you are not in any way unique in that you are seeking to determine your future major - approximately 2,050 of your fellow First-Year Notre Dame students are in the same situation and quite a few change their major, sometimes several times. In fact, you can not even declare your major before the end of your second semester at Notre Dame. So whether you preliminarily choose Engineering or Physics at the moment does not make any difference whatsoever. In fact, it appears that it may be one of the least underlying concerns here.
@hpcsa
Oh I know that declaration of major happens during second semester. I just like to plan things out ahead of time as much as possible.
Having a plan is great. Having a plan that can survive change is priceless.
“Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth.”
–Mike Tyson (1987)
How about having our own plan, until God laughs and has His own?
We’ve got to relax more, it’s all going to work out!
@QB18ND23 you’re gonna be just fine.
I completed the course preference form yesterday. Unfortunately, it seems as though I am forced to choose between physics and engineering right from the get-go, since both have a required course in the first semester (Physics A vs Introduction to Engineering Systems I).
On a more positive note, I took another look at the engineering pamphlet and can say that I have a more favourable perception of what students at Notre Dame do in the discipline and why.
Just take both courses first semester. You will take five classes and there should be room for both among those five. Taking both will help you figure which which path, physics or engineering, you prefer.
ND will probably encourage you to also take chemistry, a first year seminar or writing course, and a math. You would be taking the physics or engineering course instead of philosophy, theology, or a fine art (as compared to typical schedules) but there will be time for those later. (Of course, physics and chemistry with the labs at the same time can be tough, but I think the pre-meds do it. I don’t think the engineering course is overly rigorous.)
Discuss your physics/engineering choice with your first year advisor. They will probably suggest the above or something that works better. You will have plenty of time to change things around if you want after you arrive on campus and meet your first year advisor in person.
I don’t understand this statement. Didn’t you say that you don’t want to be motivated by money?
Faraday was an genius at experimental physics, but he had very little formal education. He had no math background and did not teach himself math (why not?). It was Maxwell who had to translate Faraday’s results into math. I have utterly no idea why you would have difficulty being proud to be an engineer. You can’t be Faraday either.
@sylvan8798
The first statement refers to the consequence of choosing engineering at this point (for the money). If I made that choice, it wouldn’t make sense for me to do anything but the parts of engineering that pay the most, like petroleum.
I am very aware of his lack of formal education; that’s why I look up to him. I have a history of struggle with math that comes up every once in a while. His story comforts me even if I can never approach his genius.
I wouldn’t be proud because, as of now, I am not particularly impressed with the work engineers do. I can appreciate it, definitely, but I wouldn’t be proud to be the one doing it. For example, I appreciate engineers who make possible comfortable car rides thanks to good suspensions, but I would take no pride in that kind of work. It just doesn’t satisfy me.
@Trinity2016
I’m not sure that’s possible because, from what I saw, the introductory engineering course is a two semester sequence, and I’m required to have a University Seminar for one semester (the writing intensive class requirement I can postpone). That leaves room only for the engineering physics course those students take in their second semester, not the two physics courses physics majors are required to take.
I will definitely try to talk to my advisor about this though.
That’s just silly. There are lots of fields of engineering, barely related to one another. You could choose engineering because of something besides money - like wanting to do a particular type of work.
What type of work would you be expecting to do in Physics? Because truth be told, I’m not particularly impressed with some of that either. You seem to be very hung up on the “impressiveness” of what you do.
@sylvan8798
That’s the thing: I don’t know what that work would be yet. As I said before, if one day I come across something that truly interests me, then I’d gladly go into engineering. I just don’t know enough yet to commit to that.
I don’t know what work I’d do with my physics degree yet, but that’s the point. I feel that, given how unsure I am about what I want to do, physics will leave more doors open to me (including engineering).
My daughter would have dearly loved to be in your place. She just loved Notre Dame, but she was not accepted. You don’t need to have everything figured out before you step on campus. Enjoy the journey! Enjoy exploring!
Bless you @katrina1 . If your daughter is at all like you, it is Notre Dame’s loss.
@QB18ND23 - earlier in this thread there were comments about your attitude that you seemed to take offense to. The comment by @Katrina1 is a fine example of the impact of the tone of your posts. You were matched to Notre Dame through QB. Yet, you sound troubled or at times almost belligerent about the amazing gift that has been bestowed upon you. Please take a moment to realize that many of the parents here truly want the best for you and want you to succeed even though we don’t know you. I get the impression that life has dealt you a bad hand. That sucks. I do not have any perspective to help me understand how that feels. I do have this one:
I want to share a brief story with you. In my son’s hall there was an RA that had a tough year. In high school, he was diagnosed with cancer. He fought it into remission. Fast forward to this year. Being an RA is an honor in the halls. This young man did not discuss his battles with many. His fellow RA’s knew. He even ran the NYC marathon in the Fall. He was due to graduate into a program that would allow him to teach for a few years before attending med school. Then in December, the cancer came back. He started having some seizures. He spent a stretch of the Spring semester at home to get medical care. It wasn’t going well. He came back to school a week or so before graduation. Again, it did not look good. They held a special ceremony for him in the hospital a week before the commencement for his classmates. His parents then took him home. He passed away two weeks later.
This young man was dealt a pretty tough hand. He made the most of the opportunity that Notre Dame offered. I encourage you to do the same. Your life will not be forever altered if you have to change majors because you chose one over the other. Start with one and explore. Notre Dame offers more flexibility than other schools (my DS took more than 15 units 1st semester last year). Use it. Allow those who are older, with more life experiences to provide some insight. Some of us might actually know more about life, engineering and physics than you do. Take it with grace and humility.
Now I will put my ‘soap box’ away.
@usma87
I have not taken any offense to any of the comments. My tone is as my character: strict. I wouldn’t say I’m troubled as much as I am scared. In another post, I expressed the terror I feel for what’s to come. Having an internal conflict over major selection doesn’t help that.
As I said before, I will keep an open mind. I’ll see if it is possible to take the introduction to engineering sequence and the rigorous physics classes my first year. If so, then I can explore and decide if I know enough to choose engineering.
@QB18ND23 Much more important than going round and round on future major choices and related matters, which are best to be discussed in detail with your ND Advisor, you might want to consider what you will be doing from your side to integrate into community with your fellow Notre Dame students in just a few short weeks. Clearly, a “strict tone and character” is not inherently going to help you on this success critical matter, which will come in addition to your acculturation to the US. I personally really don’t mind how you communicate with ND parents on this forum or whether or not you take offense by the many well meaning comments and suggestions you have received, yet I can tell you how our DD, who is on the Welcome Weekend Team, would respond to an incoming First-Year Student with an attitude: not very well! All the best to you, first impressions are important, give it some thought in preparation of your forthcoming big move.
@QB18ND23 There is substantial overlap between engineering and physics curriculums in the first year at Notre Dame. As you indicated, make sure to talk to your First Year Advisor, but assuming the courses you need are offered in the semester you need them, you should be able to try out both.
Note that the physics major appears to accept the first two physics courses intended for engineers as a substitute for the physics courses from the physics department, which should provide you more flexibility. “PHYS 10310 and 10320 [Physics for engineers] may substitute for PYS 10411 and 20435 [Physics for physics majors and others] respectively.”
https://physics.nd.edu/assets/150744/ug_phys_degree_brochure_current.pdf
You should also inquire if the converse is true - whether the engineering department would accept the physics department’s first two physics classes.
If Phys 10310 (the first physics course for engineers) is offered in the fall and Phys 10320 (the second physics course for engineers) is offered in the spring (I do not know if this is the case because normally engineers begin with Phys 10310 in the spring rather than fall), then you could select a schedule along the lines below and fulfill all the needed courses for the first year for both the physics major and the engineering major as well as the required First Year Seminar. You will have a tough schedule, taking physics, chemistry, and calculus each semester (each of which is a four hour class and two of which include labs) and you will have to push some of the core curriculum classes to after your first year, but it looks like it could be done. If you have any AP credits for math, chemistry, or physics then it also gets a lot easier. And if for some reason you can’t make this work, I’m sure your First Year Advisor can help you come up with something that allows you to pursue either Physics or Engineering once you decide.
I can say from my own student’s experience that the first year engineering program is designed to help students figure out whether they want to do engineering and if so, what type of engineering, so you should definitely try to work in that sequence.
As I indicated previously, plan to work with your first year advisor and they can help you through this process to select a schedule that makes sense. You certainly won’t be the first person to enter Notre Dame being undecided between engineering and physics. Some big state schools expect you to know what you are going to major in before applying and you get stuck in that in that major. Notre Dame is not that type of college.
It is fun to plan ahead, but try not to worry too much at this point about your schedule. It will work out. The First Year Advisors know more than we do about this and are there to help. They will help you put together a schedule that preserves your options. That’s part of the benefit of attending a school like Notre Dame.
Good luck.
Sample first year schedule for engineering and physics:
Fall – 18 hours (plus Moreau First Year Experience if still required)
Chem 10171
Calc 10550
Phys 10310 (or Phys 10411 if it also qualifies for engineering). An engineering student would normally take a core course instead.
Intro to Engr I
Theology/Philosophy/Writing/First year seminar/ or other core course
Spring – 18 hours (plus Moreau First Year Experience if still required)
Chem 10122 (this would be optional for some engineering disciplines)
Calc 10560
Phys 10320 (or Phys 20435 if it counts for engineering). An engineering student would normally take Phys 10310 this semester and take this course in fall of second year.
Intro to Engr II
Theology/Philosophy/Writing/First year seminar/ or other core course
@QB18ND23 - I understand the terror of the unknown. I signed my life away to defend this country and people I do not even know, including you. I did so not knowing what the future held. I would do it again in a heartbeat. I feel blessed to be in a country that provides so much. Take this advice - you are placing entirely too much importance on a decision that can easily be modified with no negative repercussions. You are assessing a situation without all the facts. When some are offered, it seems like you dismiss them. Additionally, you originally posed a question that started this thread that essentially accused Notre Dame of being “all about the money.” I encourage you to withhold your judgement until you experience it for yourself. Many here have tried to share their first hand accounts of the love for all that is present at Notre Dame. Hope you experience it too.
Also, you mentioned you were not aware of “famous” engineers. How about Archimedes, Tesla, Musk, Eiffel, Edison, Bell, Ford, the Wright brothers, Howard Hughes and Lee Iacocca (look him up if you haven’t heard of him)? They have changed the world.
You have done well for yourself. The QB match to Notre Dame means you are well above average. As I said earlier, you have had to overcome numerous obstacles that many have not had to deal with. Well done! I sincerely congratulate you. Yet even your latest comment has an air of superiority, i.e. “strict” tone. Implying that the rest of us are slackers. You are obviously bright. I implore you yet again, take the advice of those who have “been there and done that.” Allow yourself to be a bright high school graduate about to start Notre Dame. Period. The rest will play out as time passes. You have several great options that will not limit you.
The part you are missing is faith. Life, in many ways, has taught you to rely only on yourself and what you can control. Faith is the belief in what cannot be seen. I have consistently relied on Faith (as opposed to faith) to get me through some rough parts of life. Faith also implies trust. A part of faith is trusting in others that you may not know. I do not want to turn this into a ‘testimony’. If you want to know why I feel Faith in God is justified, message me. I would be happy to share my Faith with you. I can also recommend some great books. In the meantime, I wish you the best of luck. Notre Dame has exceeded my expectations in almost every aspect (some dorms are a little old). I hope it is a great experience for you.
I, as well as many other parents on CC have become impatient with students who come across as rude, entitled, immature, etc. I’ve sometimes scolded a bit or tried to give an older person’s perspective when I’ve thought a young person needs a change of attitude, but I don’t think that’s what’s going on here.
@usma87 has self-identified as likely having Asperger’s, otherwise known as being on the autism spectrum. The “strict tone and character” and what many posters perceive and comment on as OP’s lack of humility, rejection of kindly-meant advice, inflexibility and not being able to relax ideals, concerns, fears, are all consistent with being on the spectrum.
If OP IS on the spectrum, these traits are unintentional and something he/she cannot change any more than eye color or bone structure…Research on the physical brain of people on the spectrum shows significant differences in brain structure and the way it processes information, emotions and social cues. With an enormous amount of coaching and attention certain traits can be modified (often to suit the expectations of neurotypical people) but not fundamentally changed. As well-intentioned as the advice is, saying that OP should consider how he/she will integrate with other students and that the “strict tone and character” won’t help, is inadvertently adding another potentially anxiety-provoking and overwhelming task for this student. Generally, people on the spectrum are incapable of being anything less than absolutely authentic to who they are, rigid or no. OP is likely absolutely sincere in the extreme idealism and perfectionism, and there’s not really anything that any of us can say to alter that. This is both a curse and a gift that OP will struggle with his/her whole life… I think any advice to this young person will be most effective when it’s focused on helping to answer OP’s actual questions and channeling his/her actual traits to a “best fit” education and career, not commenting on his/her delivery, attitude, personality or values which may be profoundly different from your own. I don’t this this student is rude or unappreciative, just genuinely struggling to reconcile conflicts about what to do.