A rant

Parents Forum
1

<p>After a lecture from my parents tonight, I feel inclined to rant on a public forum where I can preserve some shred of anonymity yet attain some amount of viewer feedback. </p>

<p>The story goes like this. I found out my SAT Subject Test scores a few days, and already I knew that my parents would be unhappy. Not that they were bad scores; far from it, in fact, they were rather decent (in the top quartile of percentiles, which, while not great, is hardly “bad”). Anyway, today my parents asked about them and I was compelled to inform them of my “bad” scores. Lecture ensues, of course, in which they undermine my self esteem many times by calling me a “failure” and tell me that apparently I am “not going to get into any college, nevertheless receive a scholarship.” </p>

<p>Unfortunately, this has not been the first lecture of its kind, and it has gotten me thinking. This lecture was actually one of the better ones; last time I was essentially told that my happiness was unimportant compared to making it to states for an FBLA contest (aka I was told to quit track and field in order to have more time to study). </p>

<p>The problem with this whole competitive educational system, as I see it, is that high school is no longer seen as a time of exploration and discovery, but rather as a stepping stone into college. Was there not a time when students did not even think about college until they sent off their 2 or 3 applications (and sometimes just one) to the nearest university(ies)? Was there not a time when high school was about having fun, instead of a contest to see who can take the most AP classes and ace the most SAT tests?</p>

<p>Rather than pursuing passions or doing what one desires to do, it often becomes a matter of resume-padding. I have heard students at my school saying things like “I joined [this club] because it looks good on a college application” and “I need to be president of [this organization] so I can show colleges my leadership skills.” As editor in chief of the school newspaper next year, I did interviews for new staff members, and it was very obvious that a few applied for the simple reason that they wanted to add another line to their college application. </p>

<p>I admit I am slightly guilty of this resume-padding business. I studied for the SAT I Reasoning Test, even when I knew and protested to my parents that it defeated the point of having the test in the first place. I did join CSF (California Scholarship Federation) because I wanted to put it down on my college application (I no longer think of it such, luckily. In fact, I highly doubt it will go on the short allotted space for extracurriculars on college applications. I stay in it simply because I don’t see the point of quitting.) But I have by now learned that I should live my life to the fullest when I still have the chance, and am extremely grateful to have found activities and classes in high school that I truly enjoy.</p>

<p>Unfortunately, many do not see life as such. So rather than let kids be kids, certain parents (including mine) attempt to force their children down a certain path in order to have the “best” chance of getting into a prestigious university. Which brings up another problem in the system, of course, but I’ll get back to that later. Anyway, rather than allow their children to fully explore their passions, it becomes more of a desperate rat race, with students overloading themselves with APs and extracurricular activities and essentially killing their childhood in order to get into Harvard or Yale or other universities seen as “top-notch.”</p>

<p>Too many times I see people posting things like “Which one will look better to colleges” and “Should I take this class over this one? Should I sacrifice my art class for another AP?” I just want to scream and tell them to stop thinking about college and do what they want. I want to tell them doing what they want will get them the world, and that caring so much about college admissions will get them nowhere. But the problem is, it’s probably not true. Regardless of what I’d like the system to be like, the sad truth is that many times these resume-padders will make it into competitive colleges. It’s not a bad thing, because they’ve obviously proven their success. But it’s also not a good thing, either, because at what price has their success come at? They may well have sacrificed a good amount of high school simply to get into college.</p>

<p>Then the problem becomes that college is no longer seen as a means of furthering knowledge, but rather as a more and more necessary stepping stone to a career. A career, of course, is a stepping stone into a six or seven figure salary. A six or seven figure salary is a stepping stone into retirement. And as parents try to get their kids into competitive pre-schools, it brings up the question of “When is life actually supposed to be lived?” It seems that everything is a stepping stone into the next phase of life. My parents tell me to make sacrifices now so that I can live happily later. But what if I want to live happily now? Are we really supposed to wait until I’m 50 before I “live”?</p>

<p>I understand that this is how many of us younger Generation Yers have been raised. We got sucked into the world of college admissions from an early age (myself included); a few lucky (unlucky?) ones already post on this forum as middle schoolers. As our society puts more and more emphasis on the concepts of success and prestige, it seems that getting into a competitive college should play a larger and larger role in our lives. I, unfortunately, am one of the victims of such thoughts, and in the next few months will attempt to carefully tread my way through the world of college admissions and will probably be an active poster on this discussion board.</p>

<p>I also don’t think that the system will change any time soon, if ever. I am also not saying that most fall into this trap; it’s probably just a very slight minority right now. There are many wonderful people on this forum and in the world that use high school to pursue their passions, and there are many more who don’t have the opportunity or resources to be in such a “predicament.” </p>

<p>But as college admissions get more and more competitive, it brings up the question of what kind of toll such a competitive educational system has on future kids. (The Report Card by Andrew Clements is one of my favorite books and carries out a decent attempt at illustrating this principle.) Is this really what we want? Forcing our kids to grow up at a fast pace simply to keep up with the rest of their peers for fear they’ll fall behind and lose their chance into a competitive college? Always looking to the future and never really thinking about enjoying the present (which is really what counts)? Already my 10 year-old little sister, although the idea of college has never come up for her, feels the need to strive for perfection and engage in this competitive environment. (At a recent birthday party, the itinerary listed “share report cards” as one of the things to be done. And she constantly checks her math homework over the phone with multiple friends to make sure she gets perfect. It’s quite sad.)</p>

<p>Obviously this is a skewed post (and probably exaggerated some) as it is reserved for very few in the nation, mostly those who feel inclined to post on forums such as CC. And obviously there are people with much worse problems than being overly pressured and stressed, but I just wanted to get my thoughts out there to the people whom would most likely relate. And I could rant more (especially about this whole parent “involvement”) but I feel that this is enough for now, and I should like to sleep soon.</p>

2

<p>let us reign this in a bit, and focus on you and momny and daddy</p>

<p>what do they "expect" and what will they commit to, that is what you need to focus on</p>

<p>for instance, have they said "we will only pay this much and for these schools" or are they just trying to exert pressure (I think they are wrong in this case btw)</p>

<p>I agree with all you have said, but lets see if we can help you</p>

<p>It may be the case, so be ready, where they may say no$$ unless its a Top 25 or whatever, and if so, would you be prepared to go it alone?</p>

<p>I am not saying that your parents are right, not by a long shot, but reality isn't often "right"</p>

<p>So what threats have they made...and you should know, many people do college all on their own, by being smart about options and seeing that state schools can be a God's send
That being said, do what you love and try your best</p>

3

<p>They wanted you to quit track? Lame. And incredibly stupid on their part.</p>

<p>I took four years of VoAg/Shop and didn't take a foreign language (That one was not my choice though, but the school's for never actually providing one anyone could take), and I still got into USC with a couple of honors programs, one in my major (Aerospace engineering) and one in multimedia. I worked hard in school and harder on my applications, but I still had a blast in high school, mainly thanks to varsity football, shop class, and FFA.</p>

<p>I believe the main reason for this was my parents took a hands-off approach to my education, as long as I got A's in high school and took the most challenging classes (shop isn't challenging, but we agreed it is very important. As for the foreign language thing, see above). They wouldn't have reprimanded me if I had decided to quit coaching Science Olympiad, and they never would have asked me to quit football to do so. </p>

<p>As for college admissions, I made it clear to my folks that it was my baby, and they trusted me, rightfully. I did all the research, signed up for all the tests, and filled out all of my applications MYSELF, no parents or services-for-hire involved. I just told my parents where I was applying to, and the result of each application. Then, after reviewing financial aid information, I decided on USC, and now I attend there.</p>

<p>Parents, if you son/daughter works hard in school, gets great grades in challenging classes, while doing intensive activities they love, please don't mess up a good thing. They obviously know what they are doing, and are doing it well.</p>

4

<p>Tako,</p>

<p>I know you're upset and it sounds like you have every right to be. I do wonder if your parents are not American. My parents were immigrants and put a LOT of academic pressure on me and felt the only thing that mattered were grades (not sports, etc). I think that's because in some other educational systems, that <em>is</em> all that matters.</p>

<p>Breathe, walk and go ahead and vent... but try your hardest not to internalize it. If you can, find a counselor. I'm serious! People who internalize that stuff can relive it for years on end. You need to realize that your parents are talking out of their anxiety and pride, not from your reality. Keep working toward your goals and make them your reality. </p>

<p>(And I agree with citygirlsmom. Be prepared for them to put financial strings on your academic achievements.)</p>

5

<p>Hi Tako,
I know how competetive many of the [asian] parents are in your school district [not meaning to offend, but I live just up the peninsula and know the reputation of Cupertino schools and many of the parents] Sounds like you have an incredibly good head on your shoulders. Many parents [especially asians new to this country] don't realize that the college admissions process in this country is very different than the strictly statistics-based admissions processes found elsewhere, and make the mistake of trying to encourage their children to be too one dimensional- encouraging only the grades/ awards that may look good on paper but are the same as every other student. At many Colleges in the US the application process is holistic, and if you are interested in, or have a passion in an area that is DIFFERENT from other students at your school, it can help you stand out. So keep an even keel, be true to yourself and know there are many, many colleges that you would and will be accepted at, including the UC's or Cal state colleges.</p>

6

<p>Although I come from your typical Asian immigrant family, my experience has been very similar to bmanbs2's. My parents are very chill, and I've definitely benefited from handling my own extracurriluars and academics.</p>

<p>Tako, I think you've got yourself figured out pretty well, and standing your ground right now will definitely pay off in the future. You should talk to your parents; get the message across. Success doesn't have to come at the cost of happiness. In fact, you can't really be successful if you aren't happy doing what you love, right? Even if you think your parents won't listen, what do you have to lose? When it comes time to choose your college, you're gonna have to confront them anyways.</p>

<p>Successful people are rarely the ones who can get the best grades. They are the ones who get average to above average grades and have fully developed their softer skills, namely their people skills. It's true. I studied it in my AP Psychology text book. :) That's what extracurriculars are for. In my freshmen and sophomore year, I was the classic nerd, by my own will. And then junior and senior I opened up a lot more (through existing EC's) and everything has been better ever since. I learned a lot more about myself and developed important leadership and social skills. In fact, the only reason I was put on Harvard's waiting list was because of my teacher recommendations that described how I have grown. How about that?
I really wish I can talk to your parents face to face. If you ever have any questions or doubts, go ahead and pm me. Hope this helped.</p>

7

<p>Tako, I am sorry that your parents have that attitude. Your post oddly echoes something I've been meaning to say, but didn't quite know how: I find many of the posts on this board depressing with all the focus on SAT scores and "chances" and cramming in so many APs.... I am thankful that I didn't put pressure on my kids and that they were able to enjoy high school and make most of their choices without worrying about how it would look for college. Hate to say it, but I am thankful that my kids went to weaker public high schools that didn't offer all those APs and where just about all the college bound kids were aiming for UCs or CSU's, just so they didn't have to deal with all this pressure. </p>

<p>Here's what I have to say to you: If you have a GPA above 3.0 and SAT scores above 500 or so.... you are going to be guaranteed a spot at a UC campus. UC campuses have all sorts of opportunities for students. Despite the "ranking" that goes on here, the "lesser" campuses are pretty good and have plenty going on. So campuses like Santa Cruz, Riverside, Merced, etc. are probably safeties for you no matter what your parents want to see. And you only apply once, with the same application, to as many UC campuses as you want - so it really doesn't matter whether you think you are competitive for others or not -- if you want to give it a shot, you check the box.</p>

<p>If you take the attitude that you are OK with the idea of going to a UC campus other than Cal, UCLA or UCSD.... YOU have nothing to worry about. You will have safeties that are excellent places to get an education, and anything above and beyond that is simply your good fortune.</p>

<p>So I think if you recognize within yourself that you are doing fine, and will have plenty of options -- maybe you can learn to tune out the negative things your parents say to you. If you end up at a perfectly good college that doesn't happen to be their dream school... well, they'll just have to get used to that, won't they? </p>

<p>Here's the irony: I think kids who have something quirky or interesting about them often have a better chance at some of the top schools simply because they are different. So I think that sometimes the best way for a student at a very competitive high school to increase "chances" is to follow their dreams and focus on pursuing their interests in high school. I mean... if you are editor in chief of your high school paper-- that could mean a lot more than some number on an SAT. Not by the fact that you hold the position... but by what you DO with it. So if you have that job because you care about the paper or writing -- I would say, devote your energies there. You never know what might develop because of some story or interview you worked on.</p>

<p>In fact, maybe your rant above is the making of a good feature for the school paper... or at least a good editorial. </p>

<p>The other irony -- and this one is kind of sad, but I am hoping you will rise above it -- is that parents who call their kids "failures" are setting them up for failure -- it becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy. Eventually kids give up simply because they've been told so many times that they are not worthy. For the most part, the kids who are the most successful are those whose parents have encouraged hard work but always shown faith in their abilities and offered encouragement.</p>

8

<p>Tako,</p>

<p>As you already know your parents are trying to motivate you in a very counter-productive fashion. I am not an Asian parent - but I have seen this in others. I hope you can separate this immigrant mindset (no Ivy or equivalent = failure) from your love and respect for them. In their minds, they are trying to get the best for you.</p>

<p>However, as you already know, their formula doesn't work. Attending a "top college" is no guaratee of "success". This is your life and you need to define what is successful for you. They may not be able to see it - everyone sees the world through their own filters and we tend to see only data that validates our world-view. </p>

<p>I think the wisest thing in your post is the thought that life should not be lived for the future. Hang on to that thought.</p>

<p>I know many "successful" (even by your parents definition, I think) people who did not go to "top" schools. This country has many varied paths to education and one of its freedoms is to allow experimentation and changing careers as you go. </p>

<p>I gather this is the end of your junior year. Come back when you need validation during the coming year - or just for a safe place to vent. Your parents views may be wearing on you - but there are many here who can help validate and support your path through the college admission process. </p>

<p>Cupertino Schools - and a lot of the CC angst about HYP... etc. schools are really not representative of the "real world" . There are lots of paths to a productive, content, successful life and you've got a good head on your shoulders so I hope you can enjoy the journey finding yours.</p>

9

<p>Just yesterday, tako, my youngest son graduated from one of the toughest college prep schools in the Bay Area. He is not one of the top graduates in his class, but in the fall he will be attending a small liberal arts college on the other side of the country which no one in CA seems to have heard of except those who moved here from the NY/NJ/CT/PA area. He has been offered a huge merit scholarship to attend and will be in an honors program that he's looking forward to, in a field he loves and is excited about diving into. He's a very smart guy, but he's lived life his own way. He is one of the happiest people I know, and despite years of me trying to get him to work harder or get higher grades, he is becoming my hero because of his sane attitude toward many aspects of life. He stayed involved in a sport he enjoyed with friends he loved, even though the team won I think maybe one game in two years. He put his efforts into non-academic things he loved, and worked hard at his part-time job, rather than loading up on lots of AP classes that didn't suit him. He is funny and laughs often, something I find sorely missing in so many young people around here.</p>

<p>I realize now that I tried for years to turn him into a version of his older brother, who <em>was</em> a top-top student and is now at MIT (and who, sadly, does not laugh anywhere NEAR as often!). But I realize now that younger son's approach to his learning was right for him: he did not fail at anything, but he "assigned lower priority" to the things he found less useful for the life he thinks he wants. I can see in retrospect that I was right to set minimums and a framework for him, but wrong to try to force him in a direction of my choice. I needed to believe in him more. This is going to be my mantra as he heads off to college in the fall.</p>

<p>My point here is that you seem to have examined yourself and have a sense of how you want to live, and as a parent who did not trust my child to do this for himself, I want to encourage you to maintain that awareness and use it as you approach the college admissions process. My younger son did, and it has turned out excellently for him. If you expand your horizons for college choices beyond the "top 30" that your parents are probably familiar with, you are likely to find that you have some amazing opportunities. I hope you can work with your college guidance counselor to come up with an exciting list of schools that aren't just "the usual" but include schools farther afield, with possibilities you might not have imagined last year but which give you a rich and supportive experience as you move into your future. Your education in Cupertino will be an excellent one and will enable you to take on many challenges in college and in life. Don't let the expectations of others box you in: think beyond.</p>

<p>All the best. (And thanks for the opportunity to muse on this subject, I think I've realized some things for myself today.)</p>

10

<p>
[quote]
The problem with this whole competitive educational system, as I see it, is that high school is no longer seen as a time of exploration and discovery, but rather as a stepping stone into college.

[/quote]
Tako, I'm sorry that has been your experience, but I assure you that only a small segment of high school kids & their families see it this way. Your Asian/Cupertino experience is quite skewed. This attitude goes far beyond the norm of being aware of how h.s. choices will impact one's future & learning to positively "package" oneself when completing applications.</p>

<p>Your ten year old sisters' experience is truly bizarre. The recent birthday party where "the itinerary listed “share report cards” as one of the things to be done. And she constantly checks her math homework over the phone with multiple friends to make sure she gets perfect. It’s quite sad."</p>

<p>Sharing report cards as part of a birthday party itinerary for ten year olds? (Or any age group!) How about ice cream, cake, karoake, and having your nails painted? Kids being encouraged to worry about grades & compete with one another at a celebration that should be pure fun and laughs? It is beyond sad. I doubt this happens anywhere else in the country. Really. If a birthday party invitation had arrived in my d's mailbox and "sharing report cards" was listed as an activity, I'd know that this was not the kind of friendship I'd want to encourage. The very idea contradicts the lessons of modesty, respect for privacy, and compassion we work so hard at ingraining in our kids. </p>

<p>Rest assured that you will soon be able to escape the taunts of "failure" and explore whatever interests you. I think you will be overjoyed to be escaping from this strange & stiffling environment.</p>

11

<p>Ah well. Let's see.</p>

<p>
[quote]
what do they "expect" and what will they commit to, that is what you need to focus on</p>

<p>for instance, have they said "we will only pay this much and for these schools" or are they just trying to exert pressure (I think they are wrong in this case btw)

[/quote]
</p>

<p>They have not, as of yet, directly threatened to not give money if I do not attend a certain school. They have made threats that they will not pay for my education, however, I believe that these threats are generally empty, and in any case I would prefer to pay my own way through college.</p>

<p>We have, at times, discussed my future. </p>

<p>How I see it: I would like to major in English or Journalism, and perhaps double major/minor in Economics or Psychology or Physics (it's all rather tentative right now). I suppose you could say I have a "passion" for English. I am interested in becoming a high school English teacher, or a journalist, but I am perfectly open to any career path knowing that I am only 16 years old.</p>

<p>How my parents see it: If I major in English, I will get nowhere in life. Instead, I should major in something like Economics or Management and only (and just to appease me) minor in English to "keep my career path open." However, there is nothing open about them trying to force me into Economics/Management; my mom wants me to become an investor (like her) and make a six figure salary. It is easily apparent that in spite of my mom's protests that she is simply a "guide," she is trying to force me down a certain path. I have good reason to believe that come fall of 2007, she won't let me major in what I want (or at least will attempt to stop me from doing it. Hopefully I will be able to prevent my parents from taking over my applications, and do them my own way.)</p>

<p>
[quote]
Parents, if you son/daughter works hard in school, gets great grades in challenging classes, while doing intensive activities they love, please don't mess up a good thing. They obviously know what they are doing, and are doing it well.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yes. That essentially defines me, yet apparently it's still not enough. In fact, when we were deciding courses for last year, I wanted to take 5 honours/AP classes. They wanted me to take 2 and guarantee myself a 4.0. I won in the end, and hoped that they would get off my back. Instead now they demand perfection in those classes and pretend that it's what they wanted all along, and that I was the one that wanted the "easy way out" and that without their guidance, I would have, again, not have any chance of getting into college. </p>

<p>It's not really the fact that they are involved in my life that frustrates me; I'm happy that they do not blow me off and ignore me. It's how they are involved that is annoying. For one thing, I actually dread telling them about my accomplishments because it's never about me; it's always about my college application. </p>

<p>When I told them I made section editor for the newspaper this year, I didn't get a "good job," I got a "That'll look good on your college resume." When I told them I was applying for editor in chief, I didn't get a "good luck," I got a "You better make it because that shows colleges leadership." Rather than see the newspaper as a passion (as I see it) my parents seem to think of it as a line on a college application. I didn't tell them that I got editor in chief for a week because sure they're proud, but they're proud for all the wrong reasons. Even when I got an interview for TASP, it wasn't a "Good job on your essays" it was a "Let me read your essays so you will get in." </p>

<p>And it's frustrating! All I want is for them to ask if I'm happy in life, if I'm doing what I want, and for them to be proud of my for MYSELF, not me on my college application. I mean, I'm sure they love me and think that they're doing all this pressuring and lecturing so I can live a great life, but they sure have a hard time of showing it. </p>

<p>I honestly don't think we've had a legitimate conversation that hasn't somehow led into college in the past...year. Whenever they ask about friends, it's always, "Where does ______ want to go?" or "What is ________ doing over summer?" Whenever they ask about school, all they want to know about is my grades. If I try and relate a funny anecdote or talk about my friends, they zone out. So it's hard for me to believe that they actually care, even though I'm sure they do. It's just this whole mindset that is awfully frustrating.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I know you're upset and it sounds like you have every right to be. I do wonder if your parents are not American.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yes, indeed, my parents are immigrants from China. However, they did get their education at Case Western, so you would have thought that maybe they would have gotten something out of that.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Tako, I think you've got yourself figured out pretty well, and standing your ground right now will definitely pay off in the future. You should talk to your parents; get the message across. Success doesn't have to come at the cost of happiness. In fact, you can't really be successful if you aren't happy doing what you love, right? Even if you think your parents won't listen, what do you have to lose? When it comes time to choose your college, you're gonna have to confront them anyways.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I have talked to my parents. In our "fight" - them attempting to force me to quit track in order to have more time to study, I brought up the fact that track was what made me happy, and what's that compared to a few points on a test? But no, they said that "track was unimportant" - essentially implying that my happiness was unimportant. It's not that I'm afraid to talk to my parents; it's that they simply don't listen. </p>

<p>And honestly, I know I didn't do that well on my SAT Subject tests, and would have been fine with a "You didn't do that well. Study harder next time." It's simply the fact that they feel the need to undermine my self-esteem and take it to such an extreme that frustrates me. Apparently I need to "get my priorities straight," meaning I should A. not do extracurriculars, B. not have a social life, and C. spend all my time studying. </p>

<p>And I fear for the time when college admissions come, even though I simultaneously can't wait. </p>

<p>
[quote]
If you are editor in chief of your high school paper-- that could mean a lot more than some number on an SAT. Not by the fact that you hold the position... but by what you DO with it. So if you have that job because you care about the paper or writing -- I would say, devote your energies there.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I love our newspaper, and I am so grateful to have found it. I do devote my energies there :), and just spent 40 hours at school last week working on it :P Oh, I could go on for hours about how amazing of an experience it is and all our plans for next year, but I won't bore you all.</p>

<p>
[quote]
The other irony -- and this one is kind of sad, but I am hoping you will rise above it -- is that parents who call their kids "failures" are setting them up for failure -- it becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy. Eventually kids give up simply because they've been told so many times that they are not worthy.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I am extremely grateful as well that I have indeed risen above this. Although I have, at times, crushed my self-esteem by reading certain "What are Your Chances?" threads, CC has really helped me expand my view upon the world of college admissions. I'm grateful that I will have the support of many on this board (especially my fellow '07 TASPers - can't wait for summer :)) next fall and spring (and probably all through college :P)</p>

<p>Honestly, I do want to attend a competitive college (although money will be an important factor in making choices, especially merit aid.) My parents and I are on the same board in that regard. How we approach it, however, is what brings up all this quarreling. I see high school as an experience; they see it as a time to sacrifice happiness in order to get happiness later. They think they know everything about getting into college, but I honestly think that I know more than them because of this board (but obviously I can't tell them that because then they'll get even madder!)</p>

<p>
[quote]
Rest assured that you will soon be able to escape the taunts of "failure" and explore whatever interests you. I think you will be overjoyed to be escaping from this strange & stiffling environment.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yes, I can't wait :) I fear for my little sister, however. Hopefully my parents will have relaxed by then (unfortunately, I doubt it. I will, however, attempt to guide my little sister towards her desires rather than theirs.)</p>

<p>And thank you, parents. You can be my pseudo-parents :D as I attempt to weave my way through college admissions next year.</p>

12

<p>The part about the AP classes is interesting. There your parents are outright lying to you. What ever happened to honesty in parenting?</p>

<p>For your own and your sister's sake, maybe start recording these conversations to catch your folks in their schemes. This close to your applications, I would begin to take increasingly drastic measures to get your parents in the correct mindset.</p>

13

<p>I would disagree with bmanbs2 on this. There's enough conflict here without adding more. Recording conversations for future justifications is no way for family to treat each other.</p>

<p>One suggestion that you might think of trying is to see if your parents will talk about their own experiences. It is not easy being an immigrant and the fear and drive that formed their opinions may be easier for you to deal with once you understand what they went through. </p>

<p>I know that the Asian community can re-inforce these opinions on the "right" schools as the key to success. Do your parents have some non-Asian friends who might weigh-in and provide a different point of view?</p>

14

<p>Tako, I encourage you to continue to use the parents of CC as your psuedo parents for college admissions advice in the next 2 years. You will find more wisdom and experience about the whole college application process here than anywhere else on earth. Good luck, and feel free to yell "HELP" when you have any questions. That's why we're here.</p>

15

<p>:) Of course.</p>

<p>And yes, I don't really see the point of taping conversations :P That seems a tad sneaky to me.</p>

<p>And my parents have talked about their own experiences, and unfortunately it is very much based upon test scores (my dad won a scholarship to an American university because he got second on a national test).</p>

<p>And unfortunately, no, my parents have no non-Asian friends here :( Stupid Cupertino with their like 70% Asian demographic.</p>

16

<p>Tako, your parents are scared -- they come from a culture where they had very little opportunities and also where tests are very important -- so in their lives it was pretty much all or nothing. And they probably can't shake that fear because even if they are earning 6 figures and are secure, fear is an emotion, and ultimately their emotional makeup and reaction is shaped by the experiences of their childhood. </p>

<p>What you have to do at this point -- and it is difficult but also part of growing up -- is to break away and distance yourself from their control, and at the same time figure out tactful and diplomatic ways to avoid conflict. I mean -- you will never convince them, so arguing is futile. You will not be the first kid to figure out that sometimes it is easier to say, "yes mom" and "yes dad" when you have absolutely no intention whatsoever of doing what they want. When you get to college they will have no control over what you major in or what courses you take. Too much arguing and debate will only make them ask more questions and attempt to assert more control... you want to be able to tell them that you are enrolled in the courses your advisor has recommended, or that are required to fill general ed requirements, or that could fit into your schedule. without having them ask too many questions. (At least they don't expect you to go into engineering or premed!)</p>

<p>Also - you don't have to declare a major when you apply to colleges, and if you do, then obviously you don't have to declare the one your parents want. If your parents are really nagging you, fill out your applications online and print out a rough draft before you submit it, and on the rough draft write "econ" as your major -- but then before the final submission change it. I really don't recommend lying to parents in general, but if your parents yell at you and call you a "failure" , then I think that is verbal and emotional abuse, and I personally think it is o.k. to lie to avoid being the victim of abuse, whether emotional or physical. </p>

<p>Obviously you can make a reasonable living as a high school English teacher or journalist, but will never get rich doing either. So that's where your parents' fear comes in -- they don't realize that the "pursuit of happiness" is more important in American culture than the pursuit of money/security. I have a job that I love -- and which of course doesn't pay very well - but it pays well enough -- house, car, basic creature comforts, etc. And I'd much rather be doing this than anything else -- I can't imagine how horrible it would be to work at some high-stress job where I always had to be competing or under stress -- and most high-earning jobs are also high stress.

[quote]
Although I have, at times, crushed my self-esteem by reading certain "What are Your Chances?" threads, CC has really helped me expand my view upon the world of college admissions.

[/quote]
OK, I'm going to tell you something, since you think your SAT II's are bad. My daughters SAT II scores were 520. On 2 tests. She did have a higher score on one, but there was no way of getting around the score reporting sheet. She got into Berkeley with those scores. She is attending a private college instead -- those SAT II's were so bad that she gave all the private colleges her ACT's instead, just to avoid having them see those SAT II's. </p>

<p>Anyway, my daughter is at Barnard, where she has just finished her first year, and has taken almost half of her courses at Columbia. She has one GPA, but if you separate out the Columbia GPA, she has <em>better</em> than a 4.0 in her courses there, due to an A+ in one class. (OK, I admit it, I'm just looking for an excuse to brag). </p>

<p>But the point is: Don't let anyone, ever, crush your self-esteem based on a test score. Last year, when my daughter got into many very selective colleges, I saw kids on these boards with much higher test scores turned away from the same colleges. And I am sure that there are kids at my daughter's college who have much higher test scores than she does who are not doing as well ... because college isn't about taking multiple choice tests. In college, you will get back what you put into it. </p>

<p>Colleges are looking for passion -- so you know that part about the newspaper where you wrote, "I could go on for hours about how amazing of an experience it is and all our plans for next year? Capture some of that enthusiasm in your essays... and talk about that in your interviews ... and you are set.</p>

<p>Colleges also like athletes, so stick with the track, too. Even if you are not fast enough to be an recruited athlete, I think that colleges just like to have kids who are going to participate in athletics at some level.</p>

<p>Also, when I wrote that UC's were your safety -- I didn't mean to imply that was all you could hope for -- I just feel that if your attitude is that the "worst" that can happen is ending up at well-respected state university, you will know that you don't have to stress out over college admissions. I just happen to think that the UC system is a hella good "safety" for anyone to have. (Did I mention that I am a UC grad? I swear, it really wasn't half bad). </p>

<p>In any case, since you happen to go to a very competitive high school, it's best to look a little off the beaten path for college -- the colleges with the best journalism departments are not necessarily the ones that are the most selective (some are, some are not), and obviously you should build your college list around your interests.</p>

17

<p>Tako:</p>

<p>If you want to be an English teacher, you can go to any UC or most CSU's, get a great education and become a wonderful English teacher. If that is your goal, you certainly don't want/need to go into debt, paying for an expensive private school to accomplish your goals. It sounds like the teaching profession would be lucky to have you. Be true to yourself. Run track, develop yourself in to a well-rounded person, pursue your passion with English. Your parents will eventually come around to appreciate and respect you if you are true to yourself. Good luck!</p>

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<p>wow. this is definitely be a featured thread. how do we recommend it?</p>

19

<p>Oh, I don't think of UCs as safeties (though I guess a few of them would be considered as such...) but I don't really want to go to a UC because A. I don't want to stay in California and B. I'd rather to a small school and C. Going to say, UCB, UCLA, or UCSD, even UCI and UCD, means going to school with around 50-100 people I already know. And I'd rather be all alone when I go to college :) Or just know one or two people.</p>

<p>And yes, I've learned that it's much easier to say "yes, mom" and "yes, dad" and then go off and do my own thing. Admittedly, some of what they say has merit, so I simply listen to that part and tune everything else out. Unfortunately, it's impossible to tune everything out, but thank goodness I do have some level of self-confidence or else I would indeed think I was a failure, having heard it so many times.</p>

<p>And about the whole declaring an undeclared major...well, if the time comes and it appears that it is the best option, so be it. I am hoping that my parents will step back by then, but we'll see ;)</p>

<p>And good to hear about your daughter! I'm sure she's an amazing girl :)</p>

20

<p>Tako,</p>

<p>I'm not sure if you've come across Ralph Waldo Emerson's essay, "Self-Reliance" in your studies. If not, check out <a href="http://www.emersoncentral.com/selfreliance.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.emersoncentral.com/selfreliance.htm&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/p>

<p>While I wouldn't necessarily recommend posting it on your bedroom door (that's what I did... :-)) , it may help you through times when the conflict between your inner vision and your parents gets difficult.</p>

<p>From my favorite section, </p>

<p>"There is a time in every man's education when he arrives at the conviction that envy is ignorance; that imitation is suicide; that he must take himself for better, for worse, as his portion; that though the wide universe is full of good, no kernel of nourishing corn can come to him but through his toil bestowed on that plot of ground which is given to him to till. The power which resides in him is new in nature, and none but he knows what that is which he can do, nor does he know until he has tried. Not for nothing one face, one character, one fact, makes much impression on him, and another none. This sculpture in the memory is not without preestablished harmony. The eye was placed where one ray should fall, that it might testify of that particular ray. We but half express ourselves, and are ashamed of that divine idea which each of us represents. It may be safely trusted as proportionate and of good issues, so it be faithfully imparted, but God will not have his work made manifest by cowards. A man is relieved and gay when he has put his heart into his work and done his best; but what he has said or done otherwise, shall give him no peace."</p>