A university degree no longer confers financial security

Parent Cafe
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<p>From the Economist:</p>

<p>Angst for the educated- An eye opening look at the future</p>

<p>"The supply of university graduates is increasing rapidly. The Chronicle of Higher Education calculates that between 1990 and 2007 the number of students going to university increased by 22% in North America, 74% in Europe, 144% in Latin America and 203% in Asia. In 2007 150m people attended university around the world, including 70m in Asia. Emerging economies—especially China—are pouring resources into building universities that can compete with the elite of America and Europe. They are also producing professional-services firms such as Tata Consulting Services and Infosys that take fresh graduates and turn them into world-class computer programmers and consultants. The best and the brightest of the rich world must increasingly compete with the best and the brightest from poorer countries who are willing to work harder for less money.</p>

<p>At the same time, the demand for educated labour is being reconfigured by technology, in much the same way that the demand for agricultural labour was reconfigured in the 19th century and that for factory labour in the 20th. Computers can not only perform repetitive mental tasks much faster than human beings. They can also empower amateurs to do what professionals once did: why hire a flesh-and-blood accountant to complete your tax return when Turbotax (a software package) will do the job at a fraction of the cost? And the variety of jobs that computers can do is multiplying as programmers teach them to deal with tone and linguistic ambiguity.</p>

<p>Several economists, including Paul Krugman, have begun to argue that post-industrial societies will be characterised not by a relentless rise in demand for the educated but by a great “hollowing out”, as mid-level jobs are destroyed by smart machines and high-level job growth slows. David Autor, of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT), points out that the main effect of automation in the computer era is not that it destroys blue-collar jobs but that it destroys any job that can be reduced to a routine. Alan Blinder, of Princeton University, argues that the jobs graduates have traditionally performed are if anything more “offshorable” than low-wage ones. A plumber or lorry-driver’s job cannot be outsourced to India. A computer programmer’s can."</p>

<p>Schumpeter:</a> Angst for the educated | The Economist</p>

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<p>Ok, menloparkmom, you beat my posting in the cafe by 2 minutes.</p>

<p>I think this is going to become a very big issue over the next two decades.</p>

<p>Globalization is going to move up the food chain.</p>

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<p>Not so sure, robotic devices, perhaps remotely controlled, can take over from plumbers.</p>

<p>And vehicles may not need human drivers soon, and whole fleets of trucks could be controlled from India.</p>

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<p>Judging from what it takes to acquire a degree (read: not very much), I don’t know why this is so surprising.</p>

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<p>“Ok, menloparkmom, you beat my posting in the cafe by 2 minutes.”
sorry!</p>

<p>“I think this is going to become a very big issue over the next two decades.”
“Globalization is going to move up the food chain.” </p>

<p>I’m in total agreement [unfortunately].
I especially agree with Krugman’s “hollowing out” of the middle class explanation.
I was also struck with Friedman’s summary, on last Sundays Meet the Press, of how fast things have changed worldwide in just the last 10 years, due to the ability of anyone to communicate instantaneously over the internet about anything- a revolution, an arrest, a bombing, an economic collapse. etc. Its worth watching. </p>

<p>The Politics of the Economy: What’s holding America back?
All of Washington and America is asking, “How to get America back to work?” We’ll preview the major battles ahead in the 2012 campaign. Plus, it’s been a decade since Sept. 11th. How has that day shaped our nation, our standing in the world, and outlook for our future? With us: Author of the new book “That Used to be Us: How America Fell Behind in the World it Invented and How We Can Come Back,” Tom Friedman; editorial page editor for the Wall Street Journal, Paul Gigot; congresswoman from California, Maxine Waters (D); co-founder of No Labels, Mark McKinnon; and Presidential Historian, Doris Kearns Goodwin.</p>

<p>[Meet</a> the Press](<a href=“http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032608/44391320]Meet”>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032608/44391320)</p>

<p>7 years ago, there was no Facebook, Twitter, Skype, Linked in, the" Cloud" was in the sky and “applications” were what you sent to college.</p>

<p>So much has changed, and continues to change at the speed of light, around the whole world. And we, in the US, are outnumbered by other smart, hungry people who now want what we have taken for granted for so long.</p>

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<p>And the 24/7 instant news phenomenon means that there is even more pressure to make political positions into sound bites instead of carefully considered and explained opinions.</p>

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<p>Many years ago, industries were created, and jobs were created.</p>

<p>Now the industries that are created make things more efficient. Job killers. (Or the jobs are created overseas).</p>

<p>I wonder if efficiency is over rated. I wonder if society is better off with more jobs and less efficiency.</p>

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<p>A university degree never conferred absolute financial security. Rather, people who were already affluent sent their children to university. A college education was a badge, rather than a cause, of affluence. As late as the 1950s, only about 15% of Americans (mostly upper-middle-class and wealthy white men) had a college degree. It didn’t make them privileged; they were already.</p>

<p>I have seen students (and parents) with a cargo-cult attitude about higher education that goes something like this: “Successful/affluent people have college degrees. Therefore, getting a college degree will make me/my child successful. It doesn’t matter that I have no intellectual interest and no particular aptitude in academics, or that I have no sense of direction or focus. If I get a degree, it’s a magic ticket to a middle class life.” I believe we are seeing the widespread collapse of this assumption now, but it’s always been wrong anyway.</p>

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<p>I agree that there is no “magic ticket to a middle class life.” But a degree has been, for millions of people, a key that opens a door to the possibility of a middle class life. I think it remains the case that except for a relatively small number of people for whom there will be positions in the well-paying trades (the plumbers of the world and their ilk), the lack of a degree is a major impediment to ever climbing out of a life of flipping burgers and checking out groceries. And this doesn’t begin to address the life-changing, non-economic benefits of a good education.</p>

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<p>When college was more reasonably priced, people could take a chance on a “possibility.” Now, however, college confers debt slavery rather than opportunity on too many kids who are actively harmed by believing in the myth of upward mobility through degree acquisition. True education is trickier to measure, but by most measures out there, students are paying more and learning less. In many cases, it’s because they lack the intellectual and cultural background to do college-level work. Furthermore, it seems that the M.A. is the new B.A., just as a B.A. replaced a high school degree as a minimum guarantee of literacy and reasoning ability. The whole bloated edifice is ripe for collapse. And I say this as someone who makes my living from it. I’m not happy about it but see little ground for optimism.</p>

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<p>Confers debt slavery? Only if you let it…there are plenty of schools one can attend without incurring any debt…The problem is many students think they deserve a high cost education without considering the affordability…</p>

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<p>Even in this bad economy, unemployment is much lower among college grads than others without college degree. I believe that degree is treated as a sign that person can do the job, and possibly needs shorter learning curve. Based on my personal experience looking for another job 9 times and going thru many interviews in area that has been in bad economic situation fro several decades, most people were very impressed with my MBA (not required for my job). I was able to find job time and again and most thru local newspaper (general success rate is 2%, mine - 6 out of 9 jobs), not recruiters.<br>
Another point - you cannot go to medicine without college training. Not nursing, not PA, not MD… And how about lawers, Pharm., Vet.? Need college degree and Grad. school. And yes, these are more secure jobs than some others. </p>

<p>BTW - something to consider in regard to price of college. Take advantage of employer’s paying for it. I did. Went to CC, got my Associate degree, the rest was paid by various employers. It was very worthwhile in my case and it was fun. My family greatly appreciated it.</p>

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<p>Something always bothers me about simple, broad sweeping statements. I’m not sure what generation thought a college degree guaranteed financial security. Rather, it provided an entree, to be combined with presentation, determination, performance- and still it often required connections (or at least savvy in office politics) to make the largest leaps. And, the great mass of jobs was always subect to externals. I think we are suffering some selective memory. Or, at least, selective processing. It’s kind of a myth that hordes of newly minted college grads ever just walked into great jobs that afforded them the suburban house and stay-at-home wife. </p>

<p>IMO, we can’t blame today’s woes on the speed of commuications- we’d have to examine what radio, telephone, tv, cars- and a willingness to move away from family- did to prior generations. Computers have been churning numbers since the 50’s, at least. Our parents’ and grandparents’ generations could have just as easily blamed technology.</p>

<p>I was encouraged to college by my family’s belief in that “relentless rise in demand for the educated.” But, was demand for the educated? Or, demand for uniquely competent, doggedly committed individuals?</p>

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<p>Well said, NJSue. It seems to me that the brightest kids in our local suburban high schools are receiving a very strong education–as good and often much better than we got. They go off to great universities and progress even further. However, the average high school student seems very poorly prepared and needs college to assure an employer of basic literacy and arithmetic competency. Still, college is not always the solution either, as the “everyone can go to college” phenomenon means there are now colleges which are little more than glorified high schools. Indeed, we know a lot of kids who were “C” students at our local high school who are sailing through college with all A’s and who claim that college work is easier than high school. This really scares me!</p>

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<p>"The problem is many students think they deserve a high cost education without considering the affordability… "</p>

<p>-Agree 100%. D. went to public state on full tuition+ Merit award. She could have gone to Ivy after graduating #1 from private prep (also on Merit awards). She had awesome experiences at her UG and got accepted to several Med. Schools, reaching her ultimate goal. No loans, no debt so far.</p>

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<p>“It seems to me that the brightest kids in our local suburban high schools are receiving a very strong education–as good and often much better than we got”</p>

<p>-This is very incorrect statement. Not at all. K-12 went backwards, not forward. Even very top kids from private HS’s are having huge obstacles in college. The ones who seek help thru college offerrings or private tutors get thru, others fall out of their original track in great numbers. Yes, I am talking about kids in Honors colleges, HS valedictorians…with tons of AP classes…, I am not talking about kids from inner cities HS’s. I am very familiar with situation as my D. was hired as SI by Chem. prof. She was tutoring these type of students and sometime her “class” was reaching 40 kids. They really liked her “lectures” and prof. recognized her contribution, but this is not the point. The point is that Chem. was one of the easiest science classes in D’s UG and many who were taking it have had AP Chem in HS with high grades on exams which did not prepare them for college class at all. Remedial activities at colleges make them also more expansive. My D’s position was paid, but college saved great deal of money by hiring her at min. wage vs prof spending office hours explaining HS material at his rate of pay. But none of this should be happenning if kids are prepared for college. They are not at all…</p>

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<p>I’m reminded of something learned during several decades of work:
“Attitude is Everything.”</p>

<p>I agree that opportunities are greatly diminished for young adults who are basing their career aspirations on the economy of the past. But there will be opportunities for them … new opportunities, different opportunities. The question is, how long will it take our business and political leaders to conclude that the current models are broken? True, today’s economy is a service economy. But it’s not good service. With a few exceptions, service companies are structured to make money, rather than to provide good service. Barriers to entry are enormous, so these dinosaurs live on … overcharging and under-serving. </p>

<p>I’m convinced the US economy is merely in a transitional phase. And I don’t think there’s any country better suited to resolving its problems. When? I think early indicator of change will be when our politicians stop saying stupid things.</p>

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<p>I think the percentage of kids who are in “debt slavery” for bachelor’s degrees is probably pretty low. The average graduating debt for most schools is in the $20Ks. That is a pittance in comparison to the difference in lifetime earnings that a college degree can provide. Many (most?) new cars cost as much, some far more. There are exceptions, to be sure, and the sensationalist press jumps all over those exceptions with scare stories.</p>

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<p>Regarding SI having to reteach Chemical prof’s lectures, and the large numbers of undergrad students needing tutoring, MiamiDAP’s interpretation of this phenomenon is to blame the student’s K-12 education for not preparing students for college courses. There are other possible explanations. The first one that springs to mind is the possibility that the chem prof is a non-fluent English speaker. I know many, many undergraduates who are completely flummoxed trying to understand the prof in a 200 student lecture. The TA’s sit through the lecture and then basically reteach the lecture in small groups, using clearer English, and allowing for the give and take that is lost in a huge lecture hall.</p>

<p>DH once spent a lecture completely confused by references to “elbees” by a prof. Turns out he was referring to pounds. Elbees were lbs.</p>

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<p>^not to mention the tendency to weed kids out pf pre-med classes- even at 100 level.</p>