<p>More on the UW program: [Robinson</a> Center Early Entrance Program](<a href=“http://depts.washington.edu/cscy/programs/early-entrance-program/]Robinson”>Early Entrance to the UW - UW Robinson Center for Young ScholarsUW Robinson Center for Young Scholars)</p>
<p>anyone mention summer programs like ssp? the summer programs make a huge difference to some who find like minds and like motivation, they continue to contact each other and visit. a great support group.</p>
<p>I have not read the whole thread, but I saw a good number of posts arguing that he may be doing poorly in the non math/since classes due to lack of ability. From what I can get out of the thread it is defiantly due to laziness, not lack of ability. Any person who can compete at that level in a math competition should be able to do well in regular HS history. Most HS history is all based on memorization, and although I know that math =/= memorization at all, when you are doing math competitions where time is an issue you better have your math principles/equations memorized in addition to being able to derive them and understand them.</p>
<p>An unwillingness on his part to do things that he does not like will be a deserves to him even if he ends up going to a college where he will only have to take math classes. The reason is that as you go on in math, you explore a wide variety of different types of math. Some people despise certain topics while they love other ones. Odds are your son will run into a math class somewhere down the line that he is smart enough to do, but in general he hates the topic and will view working on it as unnecessary. You can’t do that kind of stuff in college.</p>
<p>MIT can be a goal if that is what the student really wants. But with a 7% admit rate, you need to consider it a “bonus” school and aim toward other choices. In fact, a smaller school might be more appropriate . </p>
<p>Also ask yourself whether you are willing to pay for MIT - they have no merit scholarships, and many families find “expected family contribution” is way beyond their means or comfort level. High math credentials could likely open the door to nice merit scholarships elsewhere. </p>
<p>A gap year can be the right answer for some kids, especially if young. Just check your medical insurance to make sure you know whether a non-student is covered. (You may only need to proove 5 months/yr as student or maybe just that he/she is a dependent).</p>
<p>“It is so hard as a parent to watch your extremely smart child bring home report cards splattered in B’s.”… There are many extremely smart kids (usually bored and/or disorganized) who do lots worse than B’s. A few B’s are OK, especially if AP or IB courses. The main thing is that they keep traction in high school. If they have a passion along the way (math or other), that’s great.</p>
<p>firehose - Thank you for setting me straight. Per the advice of the many generous and knowledgeable posters on this board, I have decided to accept my son the way he is…laziness and all. He’ll have to manage himself based on his strengths; we will not dwell on his weaknesses, including his laziness.</p>
<p>colorado_mom - Yes, MIT would definitely be a bonus. You have given me lots to think about…</p>
<p>Medical insurance should not be a problem in this case - as far as I know, the kids are covered up to age 19 regardless of their student status by most (if not all) plans.</p>
<p>Bogibogi: one other thing. Your son is probably not lazy. Uninterested, yes. Lazy, no. Does he work hard and intensely on <em>anything</em>? Then he’s not lazy. </p>
<p>Very few of us put the same intensity into everything they do. I am hard pressed to imagine doing laundry with the same intensity I put into my dog agility training. I don’t think that makes me “lazy” about laundry; I think it makes me uninterested in laundry. I get it done… but not particularly well.</p>
<p>bogibogi:</p>
<p>I agree with Dmd. Your son is not interested in certain areas of knowledge rather than lazy.
As well, individuals who are gifted in one area are not necessarily gifted in others. Just because he can perform well above grade level in math does not mean that he could do the same in the humanities and social studies, or even perform at grade level as easily. Try asking how many famous writers aced calculus; why should math whizzes ace literature?
Anyway, it’s great that he has a goal in mind, but he should broaden his idea of where he would like to study. There are schools with terrific math programs besides MIT. My S visited Princeton and was bowled over by seeing John Conway taking tea with undergraduates. He was shown around the places where A Beautiful Mind (about John Nash) was filmed. In the end, he decided not to apply because of the location (he is an urban kid). But Princeton, along with some other schools, is a terrific place for a math-lover. There are some colleges also that would love to have a quirky kid.</p>
<p>There are plenty of colleges that love quirky kids, and they’re not all as hard to get into as Princeton or MIT! I think that OP really needs suggestions of good fits beyond this most selective tier and some support for recognizing that he will make plenty of good, like-minded friends at schools that aren’t as prestigious, but will offer as good an education!! Marite, every time I read a post from you, it seems like you’re always suggesting a top-tier school. There is a vibrant intellectual life at many, many schools beyond these! And, in fact, might be a better fit for the kid whose high school record doesn’t reflect their intellectual capabilities.</p>
<p>I am not denigrating schools that I am not listing. As posters know, I do not have an “Ivy or bust” mentality. What I am saying is that he should not have an MIT or bust mentality.
But I do not see why a student with such high math abilities should not aspire to schools that are known to have the best math programs in the country.
The reason I suggest a top tier school is that the student truly excels at math. It is not every student who qualifies for MOSP. His math abilities trump Bs in subjects that are not math/science.
When the time comes to actually apply, he may want to have one or two real safeties (unless he gets in EA at MIT or Chicago or Caltech). And indeed, if he wants to apply early, he ought to focus on making sure he has his SAT or ACT/SAT-IIs done by October.</p>
<p>^^^
After reading on CC for a few months I think everybody basically would recommend the same thing for this kid, at least as far as where to look and apply for school. Apply to MIT since it is currently his dream school, and he certainly has a chance. Apply to a few schools of varying selectivity that foster this level of interest in Math, including a couple safeties. With some kids applying to 15-20 schools he certainly doesn’t have to limit himself.</p>
<p>Like all message boards, it sometimes seems that these threads repeat the same basic advice, which is primarily common sense, over and over again. I understand there is some added value in that the OP may never have heard some of the specific suggestions for accelerated learning, or the anecdotal stories before. But the college application strategy is certainly covered here and in several hundred other threads I’m sure.</p>
<p>As far as the original question, what to do about the grades, which it turns out are not that bad anyway, it looks like the OP has basically reached a resolution. I’m not sure anybody could have given him/her much more than reassurance anyway, not knowing the kid personally.</p>
<p>The only thing that is surprising about this thread is that nobody has yet to take it off into a UofC discussion for 47 pages.</p>
<p>"The only thing that is surprising about this thread is that nobody has yet to take it off into a UofC discussion for 47 pages. "
lol! I think [ hope]the Chicago bashers have gotten it out of their system!</p>
<p>I am new to the whole college admissions process and to the CC community. I do not have the luxury of reading thousands of posts with a toddler underfoot so I appreciate posters indulging me with my questions and inquiries. And while it may have been repetitive to you, I have learned a lot and been encouraged in many ways.</p>
<p>No UofC bashing from me. It is absolutely terrific in math! the only thing the OP’s son will have to take into account is the Core curriculum. Very heavy on the humanities/social sciences.</p>
<p>^^^S1 can vouch for this! He has loved his humanities/social science courses at Chicago, mainly because they aren’t about the usual memorization and instead are discussion-driven. That’s not to say they haven’t kicked his tail at times, though. The opportunity to do the Core was the main reason he picked Chicago > MIT. He knows what he wants in grad school, but figured UG was the time to dive into other areas.</p>
<p>I will add that Chicago is very flexible about math and CS placement and have some excellent departmental advisors.</p>
<p>bogibogi, it was very clear on S1’s transcripts that most of the classes in which S1 got Bs were ones in which he never connected with the subject or the teacher. Some of this will improve with maturity, but some of it he’s just going to have to learn to plow through. After four years of HS where S could blow off a class he didn’t like and still get a B, he found out the hard way it doesn’t work like that in college. The lesson finally sank in and the work ethic has improved. </p>
<p>Even engineers and mathematicians need to be able to communicate effectively, or their work will not get published/evaluated well, etc. I started stressing that when my kids were young 'uns. S1 found out just how much it paid off senior year.</p>
<p>The take-away piece of advice here: If your S has already gotten to MOSP and is involved in other math/CS activities, he has a network of other mathy colleagues who are a year or two older than him, plus the staff and coaches who run these programs. S1 tapped into this REALLY useful network for advice on schools, strengths in various specialties within departments, etc. I cannot tell you just how valuable this was in his selection and decision-making process, plus some of these folks are now in grad school and may well become lifelong colleagues. He knew how to tailor his apps to the schools at the top of his list based on specific knowledge, he was able to sit in on classes, knew who to talk to in the departments, and always had floor space when he visited a college.</p>
<p>Other possible schools, with varying levels of selectivity: UMich, Reed, Swat, UMD, Harvey Mudd, WPI, RPI, Rose-Hulman, CMU, Case Western, UWisc/Madison, NYU (tends to fin math), UCLA, Cornell, Brown. Some of these are reaches for all applicants. S considered all of these (plus MIT, Chicago, Caltech, Harvard and Stanford) and applied to seven of them.</p>
<p>This thread made me think a lot about my role as a parent during this whole process as I have a daughter in her Junior year getting ready for college. She attends a public Magnet … I’m told that her HS is the best in the nation according to some magazine. I don’t pay much attention to this type of stuff, but I point this out only to make my point.</p>
<p>I am aware that a few kids at her school are probably learning math and science at a rate which can only be described as phenomenal… really difficult to comprehend unless you really think about it. Some of these kids are competing for spots on International Olympiad Teams which selects just a handful of students in the nation every year. And while there’s no national study on this matter, I can state with little doubt that students operating at this level really struggle unless they study and interact with other students of their peers. This is a constant struggle for many families who have these types of kids there, especially since we also have a very good state University only 2hrs drive away. </p>
<p>Bogi, I can tell you that based on what I’ve seen, you need to listen to your son and provide an environment where he will be challenged by his peers with similar strengths and interests. Ask him why he’s desirous to attend MIT, and he will undoubtedly answer that other students like himself in prior years have gone on to that school and are thriving. Talk to your son, and you’ll be amazed by what he’s not telling you.</p>
<p>I understand the argument that one can get a great education at any school… but for some kids learning at the highest level, I believe that this statement does not apply. I’m always hesitant to provide a sports analogy, but it appears that sending your son to anywhere besides where other top-rated math students end up attending - prob. Cal Tech, MIT, Princeton, Harvard - is like the most sought after high school football prospect choosing to play for a Div II school. And by the way, I found some links which suggests that your son is not alone in wanting to attend the top notch math schools…</p>
<p>[2008</a> USA IMO Team announced](<a href=“http://www.unl.edu/amc/e-exams/e9-imo/e9-1-imoarchive/2008-ia/2008imoteamannounce.shtml]2008”>http://www.unl.edu/amc/e-exams/e9-imo/e9-1-imoarchive/2008-ia/2008imoteamannounce.shtml)</p>
<p>[2007</a> USA IMO Team announced](<a href=“http://www.unl.edu/amc/e-exams/e9-imo/e9-1-imoarchive/2007-ia/2007imoteamannounce.shtml]2007”>http://www.unl.edu/amc/e-exams/e9-imo/e9-1-imoarchive/2007-ia/2007imoteamannounce.shtml)</p>
<p>Make him see the value in getting good grades and help him achieve his goal. If a child wants to sit in front of his WII and play games all day long, we as parents should guide them differently. Why should this situation be any different?</p>
<p>bogibogi
Slightly different advice as a mom of 2 smart but unmotivated boys (still hoping the 3rd is more motivated). Many 15yo boys have a hard time understanding that their choices today will impact the letters they will get in April of their senior year. Yes, you have to accept your son for who he is (love the kid on the couch, not the one you imagined). However, there is nothing wrong with bugging him to get his work done. It is called being a parent. There is huge difference between redirecting a kid back to homework and doing the work for them. </p>
<p>Kids flame out in college for many reasons. Certainly, those whose parents did the work for them or always paved the way, have a harder time in college. Of course parents should take a lesser role as the kid moves through high school. That doesn’t mean you should leave them entirely to their own devices at age 15 or 16. I doubt that the percentage of kids who fail in college is higher because took away the gaming console and forced them to do homework sophmore year. Kids who end up failing or doing poorly in high school may also be those whose parents used the sink or swim method, but didn’t notice their child drowning until it was too late. Those kid have really hard time even getting to college. </p>
<p>I have seen huge growth in my middle son, now a junior, who is doing his work now without being bugged, at least most of the time. That was not true last year when I would get emails from teachers about missing assignments or see 0s on interim reports. I refused to give up on him and let him become a total slacker. The xbox or cable model would be gone for a few days or Friday night would be spent at home. He has matured enough that he is keeping up with the work on his own and sees the value of doing reasonably well. I doubt he will ever stop procrstinating or become a type A, driven student, but he is getting the job done. </p>
<p>The job of a parent is to make a child independent by the time they graduate from high school. Some kids make the leap later than others. Certainly as kids move through high school they should become more independent. IMO, that doesn’t mean parents have no role in helping them to get to that point. </p>
<p>It doesn’t sound like your son is lazy, just not willing to do all that is necessary to become one of the top students in his class. As others have said, a visit to MIT next summer to attend an info session may help motivate him. You can easily ask a question you want answered - such as how MIT looks at grades in admissions. The typical answer is that MIT (and other top colleges) is looking for kids that got great grades in the most difficult curriculum. Good luck!</p>
<p>I don’t think that bogibogi’s son needs to be nagged to do the work. He gets Bs, after all. What bogibogi seems to feel is that he is not putting forth the effort to get As in all subjects because some do not interest him.
It may be due to lack of maturity, either through not seeing how lack of effort might affect his chances down the line or through lack of understanding of literature and history; or it could be because those subjects are not taught in a captivating way.
If he could be brought to think that with only a little more effort on his part, his grades would improve dramatically, then it is worth letting him know it and reminding him. However, I do not think nagging will be very productive.</p>
<p>I understood he was not failing, just not doing as well as he could and possibly not well enough to get into the elite schools he may be aiming for. It was my understanding that this was because he wasn’t focusing on all of his classes. Given how bright he seems to be, it is my guess he is not doing homework or papers, not doing poorly on tests. At many competitive high schools, even a few Bs will put a kid out of the top 10 or even top 15%. If the mom can get him to improve on that a little, he may have a better shot at college. For some kids, mom making them put down the math book and pick up the history paper may have the desired impact. You are right that if he has decided that a particular class is not worth his time, mom’s nagging may have no impact. However, a little negotiation can sometime provide good results.</p>
<p>Many boys do not care for Literature with a big L, even though they may be voracious readers (e.g., my own son). And I’ve come to realize, to my huge surprise, that not everybody thinks historically. This is why it would be good to find out what the causes of his not doing as well in humanities/social studies are. It could truly be lack of effort, or it could be lack of maturity–not insofar as being responsible but in understanding the materials. I have one niece, now a lawyer, who could tell blow by blow the events that led to WWI but could not explain the underlying causes (i.e., the various treaties that caused many countries to join the war despite their own lack of vested interest in the issues). She did not lack for effort; just understanding of historical thinking.</p>