Advice for those who haven't decided yet...

Colleges and Universities A-Z Service Academy Parents
1

<p>A little birdie came to me with a dilemma. What happens when the long-awaited letter of appointment finally shows up? For some, the answer is obvious: You hold the postman at gunpoint while your kid checks yes and hands it back to him to mail. Easy, right?</p>

<p>Not always.</p>

<p>There is an old saying (Trekies pay attention) that says, "It is often better to want than to have. It is illogical, but often true." It is true, and can be true of almost anything; a car, a boat, a house, a piece of jewelry. </p>

<p>Or an appointment to a Service Academy....</p>

<p>What I'm going to try and offer here is some advice to those sitting at their parent's table night after night, staring at their letter of appointment, but not knowing which box to check. Perhaps the parents standing by (razors poised over outstretched wrists) will find some comfort, too. </p>

<p>The scenario is not as uncommon as you might think. Hopefully I'll be able to offer some insight to help you with your decision.</p>

<p>Now, before I begin, I've noticed several new names around here lately, so if you CC veterans will kindly indulge me for a moment, I'd like to introduce myself to the new folk as well as lay the groundwork for some points I will make later.</p>

<p>I am a graduate of the Naval Academy Prep School (1987) and the United States Naval Academy (1991). My BS is in General Engineering. I served five years as a Surface Warfare Officer and then left the Navy, and have spent the last ten years working as a Supervisor, Engineer, Consultant, Manager, and now Director of Quality Assurance in the medical device and diagnostics industry (6.5 years in a Fortune 100 corporation). I have a Master of Business Administration (2000) and a Master of Science in Industrial Engineering (2001) from the University of Miami. I am a certified Six Sigma Black Belt. </p>

<p>I am also hoplessly biased toward the Service Academies in general, and USNA in particular (just in case anyone's missed it ;) ).</p>

<p>In short, I've been there, done that, and still wear the T-shirts (that fit). I've seen and lived the Service Academy experience from every conceiveable angle except as a parent, and I hope to do that in about 12 years when my oldest becomes part of the class of 2021 at USNA (because Lord knows, her Daddy ain't lettin' no daughter o' his disgrace the family name by going to Woopville or Zoomieville! ;) )</p>

<p>This discussion is primarily for the applicants who have not yet decided whether they want to go or not. I particularly invite the Mids and Cadets we have here to offer their viewpoints as well, since they are there NOW. Who knows? Some of THEM may find this useful, too. If so, then so much the better.</p>

<p>As for you parents, hold on for the ride, because here we go..... ;)</p>

<p>So........ You got your appointment and you're sitting there wondering, "Holy smokes! I got in! NOW what?" </p>

<p>Well, delaying isn't going to help. You must decide, and you must decide soon. It is a cruel lesson in life that when opportunity knocks, you'd better damn well answer the door, or you will spend the rest of your life regretting it. A decision must be made, but which one?</p>

<p>USNA? USMA? Notre Dame? MIT? Harvard? </p>

<p>WHICH ONE?</p>

<p>"Maybe my parents will choose for me!" Survey says: WRONG ANSWER. This is YOUR decision to make, Junior. No one else's but YOURS. This may be the first major decision you make in your life, but YOU have to make it, and your LIFE depends on it. I'm not being dramatic. This is cold, hard, REALITY. Welcome to adulthood!</p>

<p>When debating whether to attend a Service Academy, do not be put off by doubts you may have because you don't seem as gungy as the others around you who have already memorized the Reef Points. Some folks live and breath Army or Navy. Others go in with a bit more reserve. Perfectly normal.</p>

<p>As with so many other choices in life, you must first decide where you want to end up after the decision is made. More than once I have advised folks who, say, want to be a doctor, NOT to attend a Service Academy. Why? Because the chances of getting into Med School out of a Service Academy are VERY low, and only the best and brightest get the opportunity. </p>

<p>So decide right now: Do you want to be a pilot, or a doctor, or a submariner, or a Green Beret, or do you want to be an OFFICER who happens to be a pilot, or a doctor, or a submariner, or a Green Beret? In other words, if you don't get your choice of Service Selection, will you still be happy, or is being the pilot more important? If the answer is the latter, then don't go, because nothing is guaranteed. If, however, you want to be an officer and a graduate more than anything else, THEN GO!</p>

<p>You have to realize that time changes people. When your service obligation expires, you may decide that you want to leave the military for any number of reasons. If that happens, what do you want to do? Where do you see yourself in 10, 15, 20 years? Based on THAT answer, you make your decision.</p>

<p>One of the most important traits sought after in Corporate America these days is LEADERSHIP. Companies are awash in people with technical degrees who can calculate the movement of an electron across the universe or across a circuit board, but can't compose a coherent sentence or head a team (ask me how I know! :rolleyes: ). When it comes to leadership, the Service Academies have everyone else beat, hands down. I'd rather have a SA graduate on my staff than some Wharton or Harvard MBA.</p>

<p>When you graduate a SA, you are guaranteed five years (or more, depending upon service selection) of employment. In that job, you will be leading people and be in charge of millions of dollars of equipment in some pretty challenging environments. At 23, you will have more responsibilities than some people in Corporate America have at 35. You may not appreciate how valuable that is, but I guarantee you the people HIRING do!</p>

<p>The Academies will teach you self-confidence in a way no other university can. You have no idea how many times in the last 15 years I've fallen back on, "If I made it through Plebe Year, I can do this, too!" My mother dying, job pressures, getting two Master's degrees while working full-time, a divorce, turning a $35 million plant around alone, branching out alone into consulting. ALL of these challenges were made more endurable by what I learned at USNA. If I could make it there, I'll make it anywhere. (Apologies to Old Blue Eyes)</p>

<p>You will make friends that will be family, and who will stand by you through thick and thin. You may spend years not seeing someone, but as soon as you do it's like you were together yesterday. We take care of our own.</p>

<p>There is no drug in this universe (short of Rapture, and I still have my doubts), that compares to the euphoric, boundless high you feel when, after four (or five, like me) years of effort, you throw your cover into the air along with your classmates. Nothing comes close. The birth of my children didn't come close. A classmate and friend who sat next to me at my graduation was my next-door neighbor at NAPS. He was also our anchorman (last in the class). When those covers went up, we held each other and cried like babies, and we didn't care who saw it. First off, we had earned the right, secondly, a whole bunch of our classmates were doing the same thing. Calling us wimps at that moment would have gotten you mashed into paste.</p>

<p>So there is the "pro" side. I can go on for hours about it, but in fairness, let's look at the other side.</p>

<p>What if you want to be a doctor more than an officer? No problem. Being a doctor is an admirable goal. If you choose to attend Notre Dame to study medicine, then you have my repsect. If you want to be a hard-core engineer and do some real number-crunching on some great projects, and you get accepted to MIT, then by God take the opportunity! If you want to be a banker, and have an offer to Harvard, then take it and go, and never look back!</p>

<p>All these examples require that you want something specific that the Service Academies either cannot provide, or from which the opportunities are extremely limited. To go to a SA under those conditions would be foolish, no matter how good the Academy in question is. These schools have their purposes, and your goals have to line up with them.</p>

<p>Some have voiced reasons not to have selected USXA as "I'm not sure I want the regimented lifestyle" or "I'm not sure I'm cut out for the Service". Well, if that's the case, then you bloody well should never have applied. </p>

<p>Some are afraid they can't hack the regimen. I call BS. If you can get INTO the Academy, you can get OUT with a degree and a ring. You think the government is going to invest $250,000 on you if they think you CAN'T make it?</p>

<p>Some are afraid the Academy is no fun. What, do we stand at parade rest while taking showers? NO! Sure, Plebe Year is tough, but after that, USXA is not unlike a good deal of universities. You have clubs, dances, and all the rest. Sure, you can't go out every night (not good for grades, anyway), but when you take 4,500 of the nation's best and brightest, lock them together, and add a little pressure, you'd be AMAZED at just how creative and fun it can get. It's no bed of roses, but the end is definitely worth it.</p>

2

<p>I'm going to take a break now, and let you guys think about it. I am at your service to answer questions. Let me leave you with this:</p>

<p>1) Choose wisely. Make sure that your choice is the one that best prepares you for the future you want. I can tell you for a fact that for "general purposes", nothing beats a Service Academy. For specialties or fields not addressed by a SA, then the choice is easy: go somewhere else.</p>

<p>2) Choose for YOURSELF. Do not choose anything because you think it will make your parents happy, or your girlfriend proud, or any of that junk. You must be viscously selfish and dreadfully cold in this decision. This is YOUR life you're dealing with here, and no one else's.</p>

<p>3) Do not make decisions out of fear. Fear and doubt are normal, especially when facing Plebe Year. Remember that over a thousand people going into USXA with you this summer WILL graduate. If they can, why can't you?</p>

<p>4) Do not listen to your friends. Listen to your PARENTS. THEY are the ones who have spent your lifetime making you into what you are today. It is THEY who stay up late at night, worried to death that you haven't decided, or if you'll make a sound decision. TALK TO THEM. They have forgotten more about life than you currently know. What do your stupid friends know that your parents don't, and which ACTUALLY MATTERS?</p>

<p>5) Beware of college counselors who try and guide you to THEIR choice because of THEIR prejudices. "You want to go to NAVY? WHY?" If someone asks you that, walk away. They don't have your best interests at heart.</p>

<p>6) Be excited abut your choice. If you're not, you chose wrong.</p>

<p>Okay. I'm tired. Think about it, and DECIDE. If you need some help, I'll be here.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

<ul>
<li>Z</li>
</ul>

3

<p>EXCELLENT advice! This should be one of those threads locked at the top of the screen for all to see, forever.</p>

<p>I really hope those undecided candidates take to heart what you have to say.</p>

4

<p>well said. I can't help but think of those kids who are there for anyone but themselves - taking the spots of guys who would kill to be in their positions. great advice zaphod</p>

5

<p>Zaphod-</p>

<p>You are INCREDIBLE!!!</p>

<p>I applaud you Sir!</p>

6

<p>
[quote]
I can't help but think of those kids who are there for anyone but themselves - taking the spots of guys who would kill to be in their positions.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>A classmate and friend of mine was there strictly because his Dad wanted him to be. No other reason than that. This has been admitted to by the father.</p>

<p>The kid didn't make it out of Youngster year. The Academic Board got him. He had no motivation to study or graduate, and bingo, he was gone.</p>

<p>It's one thing to use "I will not let my parents down and quit" when you're feeling low, so long as the feeling is from YOU and not THEM. It's quite another to be thinking, "IHTFP, but I want to make my parents happy). That WILL NOT work for long.</p>

7

<p>As I mentioned above, I have earned two Master's degrees. I earned them simultaneously in an executive program that is extremely selective. One of the requirements for admission was an undergraduate GPA of not less than 3.0, and completion of the GMAT and GRE exams (since it's an MBA and an MSIE).</p>

<p>I never took the GMAT, and my GPA at USNA was 2.65. I had taken (and smoked) the GRE. I applied.</p>

<p>During the interview to get in, my GPA and lack of GMAT was mentioned. I told them I would take the GMAT if needed, but that they were right, I hadn't studied enough at USNA, and that it was an error on my part due to youth and stupidity.</p>

<p>The interviewer looked puzzled for a moment, looked me in the eye, and said, "Maybe, but we know what it means to graduate from a Service Academy, and we recognize that if you can get a 2.65 there, you can get a 4.0 here. So we're waving the requirement. Don't sweat the GMAT, either."</p>

<p>To say I was a bit surprised was an understatement! I ended up with a 3.9 in the MSIE program and a 3.6 on the MBA side. I also discovered later that the Dean of the business school was a USNA Alumni. Yep, first time I met him was at a introductory get-together social function, and he and I spent a good half-hour off to one side talking about what the Hall was like these days, etc.</p>

<p>People who KNOW appreciate what having USxA and service as a military officer on your resume means. The Service Academies jump off the pages of a resume in the same way as MIT, or Yale, or Harvard, but there is an acknowledgement that there is something "special" about us, and it's all about LEADERSHIP and EXPERIENCE. </p>

<p>Remember folks: WORST places in the world to be at (and that's an exageration), BEST places in the world to be FROM (not an exageration at all).</p>

<p>I said it before in another thread, and I'll say it here: Looking back across 20 years of school, service, and work, I wouldn't trade my BS from USNA for a PhD from MIT or an MD from John's Hopkins. I can still earn those if I want to, but I can never go back to the Academy. I am grateful and proud that I did not let that opportunity pass me by.</p>

<p>There is more to college than how pretty the girls are, or how close to the ski resorts you are, or what fraternities there are to join. The most important thing to consider is, "What kind of person will I be when I GRADUATE?" THAT is the ONLY criteria you should be measuring against.</p>

<p>So, if you choose to follow the SA path, then you won't go wrong. If, however, you sincerely choose to follow another path for VALID reasons, then you won't go wrong, either, but you must DECIDE.</p>

<p>Hang in there!</p>

<p>P.S. - And just so you'll have some idea of the opportunities available in life: I have my BS, MBA, and MSIE, right? You know how much I paid for all that? </p>

<p>ZERO. The Navy gave me a job for five years (with a paycheck, free medical, and invaluable experience), and my company paid $65K plus books and fees for me to get my Master's. </p>

<p>Yes, friends, it's possible! Is this a great country or what? :D</p>

8

<p>BRAVO Z!
I couldn't have said it any better!!!!</p>

9

<p>thats some good advice, zaphod.</p>

<p>Quote:
I can't help but think of those kids who are there for anyone but themselves - taking the spots of guys who would kill to be in their positions. </p>

<p>i think that is kind of stupid to say, especially since you have not come here yet. it so cliche and you hear it on these boards all the time. people saying the only reason you should want to come to a service academy is to become a leader. i'd say the majority of cadets don't plan on going career army. so are we only in it for ourselves? we probably wouldnt be here if we didn't want to serve, but we also like the idea of having west point in our background when we enter the civilan world. so, my point is, nobody is here for themselves. everyone knows they have an obligation to serve the country. how can you say people don't deserve to be here? serving five years in the army is more than most people can say. people are willing to sacrifice at least 5 years of their lives in order to fight for their country and you say they don't deserve to be here. come on.</p>

10

<p>Zaphod ...tremendous advice (as usual) :)</p>

11

<p>Z, you really need to get hooked up as a BGO. There'd be none better.</p>

12

<p>I emailed it to my kid.</p>

13

<p>
[quote]
i think that is kind of stupid to say, especially since you have not come here yet. it so cliche and you hear it on these boards all the time. people saying the only reason you should want to come to a service academy is to become a leader. i'd say the majority of cadets don't plan on going career army. so are we only in it for ourselves? we probably wouldnt be here if we didn't want to serve, but we also like the idea of having west point in our background when we enter the civilan world. so, my point is, nobody is here for themselves. everyone knows they have an obligation to serve the country. how can you say people don't deserve to be here? serving five years in the army is more than most people can say. people are willing to sacrifice at least 5 years of their lives in order to fight for their country and you say they don't deserve to be here. come on.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Go easy, Homer. I think you may have misunderstood WP's point.</p>

<p>You are absolutely right that those who go to the Service Academies are all willing to serve (otherwise they wouldn't be there). I think where the difference lies is whether they WANT to serve, or whether they're going through the motions to make someone else happy.</p>

<p>You, the overwhelming majority of your classmates, and their counterparts at the other Academies, all WANT to serve, and you have chosen your respective Academies to become the best leaders you can be within your selected service. A brilliant choice, whether some recognize it now or not.</p>

<p>However, you'll always run across a handful that are there because Daddy went there, or because Mommy wanted them to go, or because they hope to be the next Ross Perot. THESE people are there for the wrong reasons and will most likely drop out. It is sad because for every one of them, there was someone just like you (who WANTED to serve) who got left out. In that regard, "they didn't deserve to be here" sounds harsh, but it's understandable. Perhaps, "They never should have applied" is more appropriate.</p>

<p>I, for one, am damned proud of your obvious devotion to duty. I'll overlook the fact you're a woop. ;) </p>

<p>BEAT ARMY! :D</p>

14

<p>Z- Once again, I sent your message on.</p>

<p>The appointment letter came yesterday. Last night, he paused a bit, and a kid who writes in microlettering put the biggest check in the "I accept" box that I have ever seen- would do J Hancock proud! (and, may I say, his parents too!)</p>

<p>You really need to publish.</p>

<p>Thanks-thanks-thanks!!!</p>

15

<p>Excellent advice Zaphod. I think it should be required reading during the application process...before that letter of appointment comes.</p>

<p>Navy2010 --- congrats to your son and you too!</p>

16

<p>
[quote]
and a kid who writes in microlettering put the biggest check in the "I accept" box that I have ever seen

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I remember using a paint roller, myself. ;)</p>

<p>As for all the kind comments: :o</p>

17

<p>Zaphod,</p>

<p>You made an awful lot of sense with your post. I can't think of too many people who could reach so many kids going through the decision process right now with "real" information. I expect that some will find their choice validated and some will realize that they should not accept the appointment. If your post is a catalyst in making the proper decision - either way- you have served yet again. Thank you!</p>

<p>And to any appointees struggling with the decision, I can only add that you may want to verbalize exactly why you are struggling. Are you afraid of going to war? Do you want a "normal" college life? Define normal first. </p>

<p>Best of luck to all of you who have decided and are in process of deciding!</p>

18

<p>To Zaphod and navy2010, </p>

<p>I just finished reading this thread from beginning to end. My eyes are welled up with tears! </p>

<p>For navy 2010, I felt a warm breeze from the radiance of pride your family experienced wednesday night. At that moment, you witnessed the fruits of your labor as your son signed his acceptance. Parenting is not for the light hearted. You have done well. </p>

<p>For Mr. "Z",
I am in awe. You are a humble servant to the youth of this country! THANK YOU!!!! If you were the key note speaker at every high school "College and Career Planning Assembly" across the Unites States, I am confident there would be more applicants to the Service Academies.
My oldest will be leaving June 28th and report to the USAFA. As a parent of a soon to be cadet, I have been blessed by my new "FAMILY". Reguardless of which Academy our children select, we all share a common bond. Pride, joy, excitement, fear, uncertainty, and dout are just a few of the emotions we face. I am at peace knowing I am not alone.<br>
I can't wait to have my middle son (age-15) read this thread. Since second grade, he had always believed he would attend West Point. However, in just the last six months he began rethinking his future plans. He is concidering MIT, Yale, Duke and Stanford to major in engineering or statistics/applied math. Your comments........."People who KNOW appreciate what having USxA and service as a military officer on your resume means. The Service Academies jump off the pages of a resume in the same way as MIT, or Yale, or Harvard, but there is an acknowledgement that there is something "special" about us, and it's all about LEADERSHIP and EXPERIENCE."....... struck a cord. There is wisdom in your words. I can only ask that my son keep an open mind as he sets goals for his future.</p>

19

<p>"So decide right now: Do you want to be a pilot, or a doctor, or a submariner, or a Green Beret, or do you want to be an OFFICER who happens to be a pilot, or a doctor, or a submariner, or a Green Beret?"</p>

<p>That's the core message. Service academies want young people who want to be military officers. You have to be excited about the idea of serving - and leading - in the military and potentially getting in harm's way. I cringe when I read posts on this forum from kids who see service acadmies as a means to become a doctor or lawyer. That's not what it's all about. The priority should be officer as a career, service academy as the preferred means of getting there, civilian college with ROTC as the second option. We advised our soon-to-be plebe son that unless he was as happy with the prospect of going civilian college ROTC as going to the academy, he shouldn't continue with the academy process, because this is all about becoming a military officer - and you all end up in the same place after graduation.</p>

20

<p>i guess you have a right to an opinion, but i disagree. i've said this many times. going to a service academy isn't only for people who want to go career military. come on now. there is the five year service obligation for a reason. i cannot name one of my good friends here that wants to go career military. i mean, this place is great if you want to go career military, but if you want to go to a service academy, do your service to the country, and then enter the civilian world with a name like usma or usna in your background, then i say do it. it opens up a lot of doors.</p>