Advice needed for aspiring Biochem or Physics major

Parents Forum
1

<p>S, a rising senior, has decided that he wants to double major in college in psychology and biochem or physics, with plans of either going to med school and becoming a psychiatrist or going into a doctoral program that allows him to address psychological issues through biophysics or biochem.</p>

<p>Advice is needed on whether S should stay in his IB program, which would not allow him to take physics or another math senior year. (Some IB programs allow such courses, but the structure of his program would not ).</p>

<p>S has taken IB Math Methods (calculus, got a 6 on the IB exam). If he leaves IB, he can take an additional calculus course, probably one of the AB Calculus courses or the new IB course that, I think, will substitute worldwide for Math Methods beginning next fall. </p>

<p>If S leaves IB, he probably also can take IB Chemistry III senior year along with physics and calculus. Sounds like a killer sched, but his best courses are math science, his hardest are foreign languages (which he wouldn't need to take) and history (which he needs to graduate but could take at an honors or regular level).</p>

<p>S has no interest in doing an extended essay, which at his school would have to be in the social sciences or humanities because of the lack of available advisors to supervise science or math based essays.</p>

<p>S's SAT scores were 760, 780, 650, and he has a longtime interest in psychology and the hard sciences, so it's likely that even if he changes his mind about his prospective majors, he'll still end up in something in science or math.</p>

<p>Although it probably sounds like we've made up our minds, I would still welcome your thoughts since switching out of IB would be a major decision.</p>

2

<p>I don't have any advice about the IB program because I don't have any experience with it, but I just wanted to suggest that your S look into neuroscience as a possible area of study. Usually there are two tracks, psychobiology and neurobiology. My S, who has visions of med school and is entering college as a biochem major, is seriously considering the neuroscience program at his school.</p>

3

<p>Doing tough courses that he loves and is motivated to work hard in sounds like a smart decision to me. </p>

<p>However, I don't understand why AB calculus is a possible consideration. </p>

<p>If he's already had a year of IB calculus, it seems to me that he should be in BC calculus, at a minimum.</p>

<p>AB-calculus is a year-long course that covers the equivalent of first-semester college calculus (plus some precalculus review.) </p>

<p>BC-calculus is year long course that covers the equivalent of two semesters of college calculus.</p>

<p>(There is roughly 2/3 overlap between AB and BC. Many strong students never take AB calculus. They go directly from precalculus into BC calculus.)</p>

<p>If he's already had IB calculus, he should certainly be ready for BC calculus.</p>

<p>If scheduling constraints (or limitations in the school's offerings) prevent him from enrolling in BC calculus and make AB calculus the only possibility, then I would seriously recommend that he self-study the additional BC topics and take the BC exam. </p>

<p>(The downside to take the BC exam while enrolled in AB and self-studyign on the side is fairly low. He will get an "AB-subscore" from the BC exam, showing how he performed on the part of the BC exam which is common to both AB & BC in addition to the BC score.)</p>

4

<p>Northstarmom: My daughter was in the IB program at her school, and just got the news that she received her diploma...and while she had access to some of the best teachers and courses, and IB has a lot of positives, she was saturated with science and math courses. In fact, her transcript looks like she should be pre-med. But if your son is math and science oriented, and your IB program doesn't address that for him, I would suggest he not do it. </p>

<p>I asked my daughter just now what she would tell you, and she said that for her, she got the most out of the science courses as they were excellent, but the IB program at her high school was, she felt, weak in humanities and social sciences. At any rate, she feels that there are so many regulations, special assignments, and extras that you have to do with IB--aside from the extended essay--that if you're doing all that in subjects that are not really your interest, it's not worth it. The volunteer aspect and CAS hours are all things she was doing anyway, but in terms of course load, there was so much she wasn't allowed to take because of IB. </p>

<p>Also, although IB was the most rigorous course load at her school, and she did very well in it, I'm honestly not sure how much U.S. schools really look at it. I mean, she found no colleges that would use Higher Level IB exams for credit. They'll use them for placement, but that's true for AP exams, too, and a good score on an AP will also possibly give you credit, depending on where he goes to college. </p>

<p>Anyway..my advice is to have him not do IB, and focus on AP physics/math courses instead. I suspect the physics/math background would serve him better than doing an IB program that has no math/science focus--his interest.</p>

5

<p>My experience was directly opposite to jack's daughter's time in IB. The way IB is implemented at my school, it's a very social science, english, and history centric program - science tends to take a back seat. As a result, I left IB, instead taking my classes at AP level. This allowed me to take the three sciences (phys c, chem, and bio) and math (bc calc) without compromising my social science education (ap world, us, euro, spanish lang, english lit and lang).</p>

<p>i enjoyed hs much more this way than i would have through IB. :)</p>

6

<p>Well, I just found out that I got my IB diploma the other day (yes, I'm a student, hope you guys don't mind!), and honestly... I did IB because it was the toughest curriculum offered at my school, but if it hadn't've been, I wouldn't have done it. The other aspects of the program (EE, CAS, etc.), and the accomplishment of getting the diploma, would NOT have been worth it to me if I would have been able to take more difficult/interesting courses outside of the program. So I would suggest that your son not do the IB program, but take whatever classes in it fit his interests, like that Chem III class.</p>

<p>I also second the suggestion that he take Calculus BC instead of AB, if it's offered... but if it's not, I think there's more calculus in AB than there is in Math Methods anyway, so it wouldn't be a total loss.</p>

7

<p>Wow, NSM; your S is really getting ambitious.
I know nothing about the IB prorgram or specific courses, but I agree that chemistry/physics/calculus is quite a schedule for a high schooler -although it would be typical for a college student in a B.S. program. </p>

<p>You should look at whether taking advanced chemistry could produce a bye from a first-year chemistry course at colleges or whether he would have to repeat the same material. If he hasn't taken physics but might be interested in it (it's a very different subject than chemistry) then he should try it now, to see whether he wants to possibly major in it in college. Because if he does, he would have to begin by taking basic physics in the freshman year.</p>

<p>Remember that in college, science majors have to take certain courses in sequence and that, due to lab hours there often isn't an option to take extra courses in a given semester. This is different from social sciences or liberal arts, where students can explore various subjects during their first two years, then load up in the majors by taking a number of courses simultaneously in the junior year.
Biophysics also is a different animal than either chemistry or physics - it involves a lot more non-science related math. Check out the required courses of schools that offer that as a major.</p>

8

<p>
[quote]
Sounds like a killer sched, but his best courses are math science, his hardest are foreign languages (which he wouldn't need to take) and history (which he needs to graduate but could take at an honors or regular level).

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Well, as always there is the educational decision--what lays the best foundation for the future--and the strategic decision--what looks most impressive to an admissions officer. If his subject matter passions are as you describe, so that he would be more self-motivated in a math course than in a foreign-language course, he is probably best off leaving the formal IB program to take more math and science. (Taking more math is also possible through distance learning, as long as he has the time.) The college major and career aspirations you mention would certainly draw on a lot of math background, so that would be my gut reaction in the situation described. </p>

<p>Best wishes for a successful school year in 2005-2006.</p>

9

<p>NMS, I'm a fan of the IB diploma but I have heard from other parents with science minded kids that they've had problems with limted offerings in advanced courses, I think because our school offered both AP and IB and couldn't adequately cover both.</p>

<p>Also, I think the extended essay is one of the real draws of the program and since your son's school seems to be making that difficult too, it's hard to promote it.</p>

<p>At my son's high school there was an equal proportion of kids doing the IB program, kids taking AP only and kids picking and choosing among IB and AP classes as suited them. There was no discernible difference between them as far as college admissions went: They all got into top colleges.</p>

<p>Having said that, many colleges that we visited mentioned that they valued the IB diploma program because of its emphasis on analysis and writing, and I was happy to see it on my son's resume. Its actual value as an admissions enhancer, however, is difficult to quantify. As it turned out my son didn't use any of his IB scores for credit or acceleration.</p>

<p>I think you're pretty savvy on college requirements, so you probably know this but I mention it because it was something that came up with my foreign language-adverse son at many colleges -- at all levels of selectivity. Many schools require kids to pass a proficiency test in a foreign language. If they don't test to a certain level they must continue with a year or two of language. Since college level language can be torture for someone who's not so inclined, make sure your son is prepared to "place out" of whatever language he's taken so far.</p>

10

<p>if your son wants to be a physics major at a top university, then there is no question that he should take the highest level of physics possible at his highschool. As a current sophomore in college contemplating a physics major, I can say that physics in college is completely different then what was taught at my high school (i took AP physics B and C mechanics and a very good suburban public high school) If I hadn't already had a pretty good introductory physics class (introductory at the AP level or equivilant) it would have been extremely difficult to stay at the same pace as the class was taught. Plus the class would give your son a chance to try out physics, as some people, even those who are very good at math and other sciecnes, just dont really like physics. </p>

<p>Chemistry would be helpful too, although I dont feel that its as important to get a good chemistry background in high school as physics because a much larger swath of the freshman class takes introductory chem, so the pace tends to be a little slower.</p>

11

<p>oh, and physics, chemistry, and calculus is definately doable, I took AP physics, AP chem, and AP calc BC my senior year and it was no problem</p>

12

<p>That's good to hear...my D has this on her schedule for next year.</p>

13

<p>quiltguru -
AP Chem, Physics C, and Calc BC were on my son's schedule this year. The only problem was that the required math would get out of sync, so that sometimes you were learned it in Physics and sometimes in Calc ... and the problem sets wound up being a little ... challenging. If she can get a jump start on her apps this summer it would be good. Remember that she will have that shadow course, AP College Application!</p>

14

<p>well, taking the two courses together certainly made sense to me. we'd learn some math, and do a unit on applications. guess what? the majority of the time, the applications problems were topics we already covered in physics (springs and work, etc). bc calc, then, became an easy-a class for me. :)</p>

15

<p>the same is true for AP chem and physics, as a lot of their topics overlap, just from different perspectives. I found it quite interesting to take the two together</p>

16

<p>It is not unusual for kids at her school to take this combination, so they must have found a way to coordinate the curricula. And, yes, she has been warned that, after she returns from her summer program, she must get cracking on at the very minimum her EA or ED app.</p>