<p>The S went to summer orientation and signed up for his classes. He's really happy with his schedule (no early morning classes), but he's a biology major and it looks like he is only taking one core science course (1st semester Biology) and no math courses. I checked the department website and he needs a total of close to 40 classes for his major, including 2 semesters Biology, 4 semesters Chemistry, 2 semesters Physics, 2 semesters Math (more if he wants to be pre-med), and a lot of other Biology classes.</p>
<p>He got some advice from his advisor to not double up on science classes at this point (?) but it seems like there's no way he will get through his core classes in 4 years without doing so.</p>
<p>Any advice on how to handle this would be appreciated. I really hate the idea of intervening but I don't want him to have major issues with getting his requirements done or, worse, having him run into a situation where he needs an extra year to graduate.</p>
<p>I think you are wise to be concerned. No doubt you will get the customary comments from some posters telling you to let your son grow up, and to butt out of his business. However, to that I say, “nay nay.”</p>
<p>As time-consuming as it will be, I would advise explaining carefully to your son why this is an issue; if possible, with a copy of the required courses in front of him. Then, ask him to go back to his advisor (or email the advisor, if he can’t see him in person) to ask about getting all his core courses done in four years. I wouldn’t let it rest until I was satisfied with the outcome.</p>
<p>Your son needs to learn why this is important, so he can bird-dog it in future years. I don’t believe entering college freshmen are born with this knowledge; they have to learn it, which is why your son is lucky to have you.</p>
<p>He should be able to complete the biology major even if the only major-related course he takes in his first semester is the first-semester biology course. Most of the biology courses that he will take will not require chemistry, physics, or math as prerequisites, so he can take future biology courses and chem/physics/math simultaneously.</p>
<p>However, if he approaches the curriculum this way, he’s going to have to load up on courses related to his major starting in sophomore year. Therefore, he should be using most – if not all – of the other courses in his freshman schedule to fulfill graduation requirements outside of his major.</p>
<p>I also think I should add that most biology majors that I have known (and I was one) did NOT do it this way. Typically, most took introductory biology and introductory chemistry their first year. Some also took math; others allowed it to wait. Nobody took physics as a freshman; were were told that biology and chemistry were more important.</p>
<p>A valid concern, OP. We’re in a similar boat; just looked at the requirements for two science majors my son is considering. Both required heavy science class concentration from the first semester on. </p>
<p>Since I will be encouraging my son to have a light schedule in his first semester (concerned about his psychological transition to college level academics) we anticipate summer school and/or heavier concentration later on. Of course, the problem becomes being ‘out-of-sinc’ with course sequences, and that’s something we’re trying to avoid.</p>
<p>Science majors in general seem have less flexibility in their course selection than their counterparts in the humanities. It’s a bit of a wake-up call for me, a humanities grad.</p>
<p>And before I’m criticized for being overly involved, let me say right off the bat that I’m involved because I’m concerned budget cuts may affect the amount of counselors available to him at the public university he’ll start in the fall. And this is a kid who needs a lot of counseling, alas.</p>
<p>Talked with the DW about it for a bit…the S has one Gen Ed class that he could swap out for a core Math class but it’s a class that he is really excited about. Think we will lay low for a semester and see what classes he registers for in the spring.</p>
<p>I think for this first semester, it’s a good idea to listen to his advisor. It is probably not a good idea to double up on science courses (especially as I’m assuming his science courses will all have lab sections in addition to the lecture) in his very first semester. In subsequent semesters he’ll be able to make up any deficiencies easily, and he’s going to have a lot on his plate just dealing with adjusting to college classes and college level work. </p>
<p>However, he has every right to go to his advisor during the semester and ask if he can sit with him and help him map out his courses for his Bio major. Or you or your son can map out the courses together (or separately) to create a plan for the coming semesters. It is a good idea to try to plan ahead as much as you can with these things, and once you have a base plan in place you can adjust it as need be for scheduling difficulties or other changes.</p>
<p>If there is reason for concern that he might be getting behind in the courses for the major, that concern relates more to chemistry than math.</p>
<p>You might want to do some research on the college’s web site to see whether first-semester chemistry is offered in the spring, with the second-semester course offered in the fall. If it is, that might be a good way for him to take general chemistry. He wouldn’t be faced with this (admittedly challenging) course in his first semester, yet he wouldn’t be a full year behind those who took it right away.</p>
<p>Some colleges, though, only offer this pair of courses as a two-semester sequence starting in the fall.</p>
<p>It is likely that Math and Physics requirements are only 2 courses each, so they could be deferred to later years. It seems Chemistry is critical and will likely be needed as a pre-requisite for a number of other courses, incl Organic Chem. I think all the other freshman Bio majors will be taking Bio and Chem in the first semester, and some will also be taking the Math. </p>
<p>Was the Advisor someone in the Bio Dept who knows the full requirements? There’s a chance this schedule will force summer classes down the road.</p>
<p>Are you sure it is 40 courses for the major, as opposed to 40 courses total to graduate?</p>
<p>A typical course load is 3 to 5 courses per semester (depending on how “large” the courses are at the specific school – 4 courses per semester is the typical “normal course load”), which gives around 24 to 48 (most typically around 32) courses total to graduate.</p>
<p>Most majors typically take up about 35-50% of one’s schedule, though engineering and business majors can take up more. Science majors can be more constrained in course selection than humanities and some social studies majors (even if the number of courses needed is the same), since science courses are prerequisites to each other (e.g. biology majors typically need to take a three or four semester long sequence of chemistry and biology courses in order to be prepared for junior and senior level courses), while humanities and some social studies courses tend not to depend on prerequisite courses (e.g. even if you did not take a history course in your first three semesters, you may still be able to take the needed history courses to declare the major in your fourth semester, and then complete the major on time).</p>
<p>Biology majors generally start off with chemistry in the first semester, since general chemistry and organic chemistry are typical prerequisites for some biology courses.</p>
<p>As far as workload is concerned, courses with labs or term projects tend to be more work than other courses without these things. E.g. chemistry or biology with lab tends to be more work than math, even if the courses are given the same credits. Note that humanities and social studies courses sometimes have large term projects, or voluminous amounts of reading, that can be time consuming.</p>
<p>As a side note, do you and he know that biology majors do not have very good job and career prospects at the bachelor’s level? The job market is flooded with pre-meds who did not get into medical school.</p>
<p>I agree with Marian that the lack of chemistry worries me more than anything else. 4 semesters of chemistry would mean a two semester general chemistry class and a two semester organic chemistry class.</p>
<p>But many biology majors will want to go further (taking biochemistry, for example). If so, he’ll need to start his chemistry sequence in the fall of his freshman year.</p>
<p>Maybe his advisor didn’t want your S to double up on science his first semester of college. But if he only took one science class a semester for the rest of his college career, he’d definitely take a LONG time to graduate.</p>
<p>I would seriously consider dropping one of the nonscience classes and replacing it with Chemistry. It’s not difficult to do the general Bio and general Chem at the same time. The student is going to need the lower level Chem. as a pre-requisite for the other required Chem. classes.</p>
<p>IMO-1st semester for Science major should look something like this:</p>
<p>Chem/w lab
Bio/ w lab
Math
Required English Comp
General Elective</p>
<p>I, too, would tend to heed the advice of the academic advisor for first semester. My son just completed freshman orientation last week and left with his first semester schedule in hand. I know they were very mindful of not overloading the kids for their first semester of college - they want to make sure the kids adjust well and aren’t completely overwhelmed by the workload. My son is an engineering major, and there were sample schedules (semester by semester) available at his university’s website which helps us see the entire picture. It sounds like it would be helpful to you and your son also if you could get your hands on such information for his major.</p>
<p>I would check to see what the pre-reqs are for some of those other biology classes. My guess is that one year of General Chemistry and the intro biology class are going to be the pre-reqs for many of them. </p>
<p>I’d want to have those classes done by the end of first year. So if you didn’t want to double up on science classes that first semester, I’d take Chem 1 the first semester and Biology and Chem 2 the second semester.</p>
Just rechecked and it’s a total of 65 credits and I think 24 classes for the major (120 credits total). The course checklist was a bit confusing…</p>
<p>
I just checked the Chemistry department website and they have a more detailed plan of study…and in their plan students only take one science class the first semester but then double up starting the second semester. The Biology department has a checklist but no course plan.</p>
<p>As mentioned, after looking I think the main deficiency in his class schedule is the lack of a core Math class. Since he’s excited about his current classes we are inclined to let it go for a semester and see how he plans to “catch up”.</p>
<p>
The S is well aware that if he wants to stay in Biology he’s in for the long haul (PhD). He’s on the fence about med school at this point.</p>
<p>I totally disagree with the posters who are saying to take chemistry now. It is much better to take it in the spring semester.
Taking chemistry in the “off” semester pulls him away from all of the other pre-meds and the engineering students for the entire chemistry sequence. The classes will be much more pleasant with much less anxiety. This is a good principle to follow for pre-meds - take premed requirements in the “off” semester if possible.
Math: did he already take calculus? Did he place out? Pre-med only requires two semesters of calculus and sometimes one of statistics.
Agree with ucbal - it is probably 40 classes to graduate. Many of these may fulfill some sort of core or distribution requirement, though, so perhaps the OP is counting them as part of the major.</p>
<p>What math did he have in HS? If he had calculus, he’ll have had enough math to be able to get through his early biology and chemistry classes. At some point, he’ll have to take the year long calculus course, but it doesn’t have to be starting in his freshman year.</p>
<p>Math is not as key a requirement for biology majors as it is for other science majors. Typically, only a semester or year of calculus is required, and it may only be needed as a prerequisite for physics and/or statistics (physics is typically required; statistics may be, but it is a good idea for anyone going into biology or medicine to know statistics since many research papers in those fields use statistical analysis).</p>
<p>Usually, the most important courses to start in freshman year for a biology major are chemistry, and biology courses which do not have chemistry prerequisites. (Pre-meds who are not biology majors may have more flexibility in scheduling these courses, since they do not need to complete the freshman / sophomore level courses in time to take several junior / senior level courses.)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>This article on the production of PhD graduates relative to the jobs available may be of interest:</p>
<p>Share your concerns with him. Suggest that he sit down and plan out 4 years worth of courses, and have him think about whether the plan makes sense, or whether he needs to get certain other courses done first semester so that he doesn’t get hung up on prerequisites and doesn’t need to take crazily heavy courseloads in future semesters.</p>
<p>He should take general chemistry in his freshman year, if necessary swapping it out for the bio course, and then organic in his sophomore year. It’s possible to do a bio major another way, but the practical problem with waiting to take chem is that then organic gets pushed into the junior year. Lots and lots and lots of kids find out when they take organic chemistry that they are not cut out to be bio majors. It’s good for that to happen in the first semester of the sophomore year so that the victims have plenty of time to choose another major. By junior year, the major has already been declared and a kid can find him or herself trapped.</p>