Advice please - Flunking son dilemma of parental involvement

Parents Forum
41

<p>OK, I've been through this, kind of. (No loss of contact, and definitely no car involved, but definite misdirected communication about state of progress at college) Here is my advice, in a nutshell:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Let go of the past, and simply focus on the future - there is no way to undo what already has been done, so there's no point in making an issue of it;</p></li>
<li><p>The parent should make expectations related to the future with son VERY CLEAR (With my son, I put it all in writing);</p></li>
<li><p>If it appears that the kid is telling the truth at this point about his job & plans, then the parent should lay out other options (if any) that the parent has to offer, but otherwise allow the kid to make his own decisions and support whatever he decides. (Not necessarily financial support: see item #2 above).</p></li>
</ol>

<p>I realize possible drug use is always a concern, but there is no evidence of this here other than the speculation of posters. The parent can verify the claim of a job fairly easily, if that's a concern. </p>

<p>IF the son is telling the parent the truth now, then it sounds like he recognizes he messed up and is taking measures to deal with it responsibility, including replacing the lost income from financial aid with a job. Whether or not the kid can successfully juggle the job and school is really his problem at this point. It may be that he is not cut out for an engineering major and will need to switch to something less demanding; it may also be that it will take more than 4 years for him to get his degree. If he is taking responsibility by supporting himself, then he has the right to go down that path. </p>

<p>This is hard: there is a point at which parent and child must separate, the child must truly become an adult and manage his own affairs. We tend to assume that will happen at college graduation, but sometimes it happens at a different stage. With my son it happened at age 20. He ended up working rather than going to school for 3 years, and he is now in college again supporting himself. </p>

<p>My son and I are still very close, and I think it helped tremendously that I simply sat down with him and went over finances and my position concerning issues like health insurace, payment for college tutition, residence, and further financial support in a clear objective manner. I got no argument from him, and there has never been any misunderstanding. There were no argument or recriminations -- he messed up, he knows it, it's his life and he hasn't messed up again.</p>

42

<p>Getting Cs from a kid from whom you expected LOTS better (see 3.5 GPA to keep a car) is one thing...getting Es/failing grades from that same kid puts his slide into a much more worrisome category for me.</p>

<p>Hope all works out this semester--please let us know.</p>

43

<p>Good lord, what is he doing working and living off campus when he's flunking out of school? </p>

<p>I'd sit him down and tell him he has two choices: he either quits working and moves back on campus where he does not have the distraction of maintaining an apt. and car and job and focus 100% on academics, or you will work with the admin to get his scholarship money pulled asap, you'll withdraw car privileges and insurance and you'll do everything else in your power to make it impossible for him to keep wasting other people's money.</p>

44

<p>You know troll or not, this is a situation where you can't win. Your son is not thinking with his big head to use slang. Other regions are in control. No way you win that game. It has to run it's course, he has to figure it out for himself. He would not be the first to screw up the easiest path to a goal. Some people take a wrong turn and the trip takes longer.</p>

<p>The more you fight and try to help him on this the more he will resent you. As far as the car goes, you didn't get him a new one did you? If the car is old, just give him title and tell him he's on his own. If it's new or newer and has a market value and payments, you should formally ask for it to be returned via registered mail and take steps legally to reclaim it. </p>

<p>He controls the relationship because HE KNOWS it matters to you, he can bend you with ease. Change that. As much as I love my kids THEY KNOW if they purposely screw up, they're on their own. I don't control their lives and choices, but I don't have to be there if they make stupid choices. Understand the difference between help under accidental circumstances and helping someone to make stupid choices and their continued stupid choices. If you help their stupid choices, will they learn?</p>

<p>If he has to pay for school on his own, is that the end of the world? I would be more concerned about becoming a grandmother right now.</p>

45

<p>I'd second Opie's sentiments. Although the timing is different, that is how I've handled the car thing with my son. I told him that I'd give him my old car but only if he took title and arranged his own insurance -- he spent 3 years without a car, relying on public transportation, and only took me up on the offer this summer when he was ready to go back to school in a remote area. He sat in my livingroom the day before he left, and signed up online for car insurance, and I handed him the title to the car & all forms needed for registration. </p>

<p>I also vehemently disagree with Mombot -- if a parent rushes in to rescue and/or punish, then the parent is trying to take control of what should now be the student's problem. It is fine to offer help on whatever conditions you want to set... but now is not the time to dictate the solutions. I assume that you are no longer providing financial support -- if you are, then of course you should clarify the conditions for that support. If your son feels he can handle work and school simultaneously, that is his decision -- and that also is very possible. My son is now working half time while at school. A job often instills responsibility in a young person and make them more disciplined about their time use; and unless it is a night shift job, it will tend to put a college student on a normal daytime schedule. Often freshman year problems stem from too much late night socializing and partying, and a habit of sleeping late in the morning which in turn leads to missed classes. </p>

<p>Also, as to the scholarship: my son's college continued his National Merit scholarship and financial aid in force for his sophomore year despite the fact that my son had incompletes in classes and therefore was not meeting the requirements specific to maintaining the award. I've always been a little peeved that they did so, because the continued financial aid lulled me into believing that all was fine, and it may have also lulled my son into believing that he did not have a serious problem when he did. So the bottom line is: schools don't always revoke scholarships when they should. </p>

<p>I can't believe anyone would advise you to go in and make things worse by interefering with whatever arrangements he currently has with the school. </p>

<p>The best decision I ever made with my son was to stand firm and to let him know unequivocally that he was in charge of his life and responsible for all consequences that followed from his decision. The best decision he ever made for himself was to quit school and work for several years, despite the disapproval of other family members -- he simply needed the time to mature, and his work experience ended up being invaluable in terms of preparation for career goals. I have supported my son emotionally but not financially, and that enables us to be good friends -- there simply is nothing to disagree or argue about. He asks my advice when he wants it -- and with the responsibility squarely on his shoulders, he makes good decisions for himself. </p>

<p>I can't say the outcomes will be the same in all cases, but it is certainly possible for a young person to work their way through college at a public institution, and it may be that his university is willing to provide extra support and flexibility because he came in with a merit scholarship and with the history of losing others from the honors dorm. That is, they may be quite willing to cut him some slack to keep him, rather than have their honors program end up with a bad rap.</p>

46

<p>Well, I looked up troll on google, and I am a bit surprised that some people thought that this situation was one I made up. I wish that were true. What does OP mean?</p>

<p>Unfortunately,my son never called me last night to give up the car. I got his glasses in the mail from friends who finally mailed them back so I went over there this morning to deliver them and talk about his choices some more. The car was there, but as I pulled up the city water truck pulled up to turn off his water. OK, I guess that I can see how this is a little hard to believe, but I swear. I chatted with the guy for a while and he told me why he was there and showed me how the meter was running when it should not be which is why he owed SO much money for water. I did pay the guy. I know I probably should not have. I then went to the university to find my son using his class schedule. No show for two of them, but I did have a lot of delightful students assist me in finding the buildings. I left a message for the assistant dean again to see whether there is anyone there who can advise him but have not received any response.</p>

<p>I agree that he needs to get out of that apartment, soon. I think that he is a lot in denial yet. I think he really thought that he could get his GPA back up over the summer. But, unfortunately he made some poor choices that perhaps an advisor could have prevented.
But probably not. I am wondering whether there is anyone else at the university that would be willing to talk to me to let me know that they are trying to contact him, or do you think this is a privacy thing. I wish they would tell me something. He, my son, has always been a real quiet person, and is unlikely to initiate contact with them.</p>

47

<p>OP= Original Poster. And there are some people with too much time on their hands that make stuff up that isn't true.</p>

<p>I am so sorry that you are in this situation, and wish that things could get better quickly.</p>

48

<p>Asking a full scholarship engineering student to work 25 hours a week is asking too much. </p>

<p>Asking him to take the bus to work is also too much, an invitation to total failure and drop out.</p>

<p>Sorry, but the kid may be honestly struggling to live up to his parent's expectations--which are too high in my opinion. I am amazed by the highly confrontational aspect of the OPs approach. I am amazed by the stalking, frankly.</p>

<p>Even high achieving kids --engineers on full scholarship--need patience and understanding. Even if they date 21 year old women and get beyond Mom's view. Even if they make serious mistakes and fall on their faces. That's how all kids learn--even the super smart ones.</p>

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<p>If this were a small LAC, the administration would be all over it. But it is a big university, so I wouldn't hold my breath while waiting for them to MAYBE try to work with your son. Many big universities will let a large % of applicants in with the sink-or-swim attitude once those students get there. I hoped that the Honors Program would be a little more responsive--once they get a sought-after recruit to enroll, you would think they would make some effort to keep a hold of him.</p>

50

<p>calmom--if in the unlikely event the OP is not providing one dollar of financial support then you are right, butting in would be inappropriate and out of bounds. BUT...the university allowed her access to her son's records because the son is financially dependent. From that I assume she is contributing something: living expenses, maybe part of tuition.</p>

<p>You all overlook the fact that this kid has been LYING to his parents, who are financially supporting him to the tune of at least a car, insurance and his water bill, presumably more. </p>

<p>I cannot believe anybody is seriously advocating anything other than the severest of consequences, and those of you saying she needs to be more "understanding?" Please...he has lied to his mother repeatedly. </p>

<p>If it were my kid he'd be out of the apartment, the car and insurance would be gone, ANY support I gave him would be contingent on him quitting the job and moving back into more supervised housing, and if he chose not to abide by those conditions, my support would be gone AND I'd contact the University and see what could be done about holding his scholarship funds.</p>

51

<p>"Asking a full scholarship engineering student to work 25 hours a week is asking too much. "</p>

<p>If he's on full scholarship, he doesn't need to work. If he's in engineering, he probably lacks the time to work 25 hours a week anyway. If he really needs money, what he needs to do is take out loans.</p>

<p>"Asking him to take the bus to work is also too much, an invitation to total failure and drop out."</p>

<p>I disagree. His parents are paying for the car, and they agreed to do so only if he got decent grades. He has not. The parents need to take back the car. If he still needs to work, he needs to take a bus or find a job more convenient. He also could stop his job and take out loans if he needs money.</p>

<p>About the car: Plenty of us parents worked while in college and either walked or used public transportation to get to our jobs. That included those of us who were in school in climates with severe winters or were in cities with bad public transportation.</p>

<p>I don't understand why so many people now think that cars are a necessity for students. </p>

<p>Usually, too, students with excellent skills can find jobs on campus.</p>

52

<p>The more that I read about the OP's son, the greater my suspicious about drug use. Often, that is what's going on when a previously responsible student becomes so irresponsible. </p>

<p>Yes, it was a mistake to pay the water bill. You need to stop paying for everything, and go get the car. He's had his chance to turn around and to explain, and he has dropped the ball -- big time. Time to take a tough line by holding him responsible. This probably is your best chance, too, of having him realize that he's in trouble, and then start acting in a more productive way.</p>

<p>He will be very angry when you hold in responsible, and he'll probably try to lay on a guilt trip and he'll probably also make promises in an effort to get you to give him more chances. Hold the line. He has had his chances. He blew it. He's clearly lying, and something major is wrong with how he's behaving. Don't step in to try to keep him from feeling the effects of his bad decisions. Feeling that kind of pain is probably the only thing that will wake him up.</p>

<p>I know it's hard, and I wish you well.</p>

53

<p>More and more it appears as the OP lives on the corner of codependent and enabler. I'm sorry but like the kids who post here that they can quit drinking anytime they want... the OP is in the same category. Until she stops doing this, it will continue, it doesn't have to change. She'll always be there to wipe his bottom and rescue him...mom will save the day...over and over and over again and the guy will end up 35 living on mommies support.</p>

<p>He controls the situation and as long as she plays... he wins. Several here have made good solid suggestions to get this kid back on track. The opportunity arose to do so and she balked. She made excuses for him and he burned her...again. </p>

<p>Sorry to be so harsh but you are part of the problem. Get the car, don't have a big conversation about (he always wins) and go home. If he wants to talk he can come to your house to do so. Linit the conversation to a few minutes and only about how HE will solve his problems. Until you let him be a big boy and take his LUMPS.. he'll continue to be immature and manipulative of you. Stop allowing his behavior to be this way, when you stop enabling, he'll start growing up.</p>

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<p>If the car is yours, you are not "kidnapping" it. Just take the car, and if you have to get one of those fancy locks that goes from the drive shaft to the accelerator pedal. Lock the car and that's it. For a price, I believe you can also get the ignition key changed.</p>

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<p>Umm, people, kid is flunking out, losing scholarship, potentially involved in some serious substance stuff and your worrying about car insurance?</p>

<p>to the OP-- I think running around campus looking for your son isn't very helpful. I think you need to alert campus health services that your son is experiencing some mental health issues and is in danger of flunking out; you ought to inform the academic deans of same, you need to drop your son a note explaining that you love him and are concerned for his health and safety and will support whatever decisions he makes to get his life back on track... including stepping out of school for a time, and that he needs to get in touch with you to let you know how you can help him.</p>

<p>And then sit on your hands. You cannot fix this for him. It is possible that the combo of a time consuming job and engineering just was too much for him, and now he doesn't feel that in your current state of swooping in you're going to be supportive of whatever corrective action he needs to take. It's also possible that it's substance abuse, or depression, or whatever. It could also be just plain old irresponsiblity. Problem is.... you'll never know, unless you back off. This is his mess. Your job is to love him and encourage him to get help, not to pay his water bills and go playing Nancy Drew by tracking him down using his course schedule to try and nail him.</p>

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<p>Blossom speaks for God</p>

<p>(no seriously that was the word of God right there)</p>

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<p>Lots of good advice, and different points of view. I did go back with a friend and got the car, which was there today.
Just to be clear about the job, he applied for internships for the summer, and this job continued into the school year. No one is asking him to work that many hours. He is trying to make money to live on. </p>

<p>About the 3.5 to keep the car. That was the deal. 3.5 was the GPA to stay in the honors college at the school. If the situation has changed so that he needs transportation to work, I am willilng to renegotiate that with a written agreement negotiated by a neutral party/family counselor. I have offered that for months, but he has had no interest. He had the car.</p>

<p>I was not planning on looking for him on him on campus, but the university contacts I have have not responded and that is one of the things that I had hoped that they would do, see if he is attending classes and to contact him. I had been in contact with someone from campus health, and although they gave me some advice weeks ago, they have not responded in the last 10 days either. I might try the honors college and maybe another number at campus health and see what they think. </p>

<p>I really was very hands off all of last year. I just think that since the last date for dropping courses without it showing on the transcript is coming up very soon, he needs to make his decisions soon if he is going to reduce his course load or withdraw for the semester or whatever. </p>

<p>If he is not motivated, there is no point in further trashing his GPA and spending money.
I just received a call from one of the people at the university and they said they would try to reach out to him and offer to talk to him. I did text message my son earlier to let him know I paid the water bill (275.00 for two months – the meter guy said that there is something seriously wrong with a leak that the landlord should fix) and took the car and was there if he wanted to talk, but he had some tough choices to make soon. </p>

<p>So I am done unless he contacts me. Although I might call the landlord / leasing company to see what it takes to break the lease. Thank you all for your insights & good thoughts. I would not give a freshman a car again.</p>

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<p>"Although I might call the landlord / leasing company to see what it takes to break the lease."</p>

<p>Why? If the lease is in your S's name, it is his problem. He needs to straighten things out. If it's in your name, then, I agree that you may as well proceed on finding out how he can break the lease.</p>

<p>"Just to be clear about the job, he applied for internships for the summer, and this job continued into the school year. No one is asking him to work that many hours. He is trying to make money to live on. "</p>

<p>Why does he need $ to live on if he has a full scholarship? Also, if he worked over the summer, presumably he should have money saved to pay for much of his current living expenses. 25 hours a week of a job is a lot of time and a lot of $. It's hard for me to imagine that he needs that unless he has some major expenses that he's not bothering to tell you about because they have nothing to do with school.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Although I might call the landlord / leasing company to see what it takes to break the lease.

[/quote]
Talk to a local lawyer, but the water leak is a good start -- the landlord has breached his duty to maintain the place properly. (But of course, the landlord needs to KNOW about the leak first - if no one has reported it, then he can't be expected to fix it.</p>

<p>Northstarmom, its very possible that kpm2c3 is a cosigner on the lease, because many landlords won't rent to students without a cosigner. If she is, then she has every right to inquire about the terms of the lease -- but I don't think she should assume that the son WANTS to break it. Another very reasonable option for him is to keep the job but either quit school or drop down to a part time schedule to focus on retaking the courses that he failed. That may end up being the most realistic plan for him to get back on track. </p>

<p>So - to kpm2c3: if you are a cosigner, I would suggest that you NOT call about breaking the lease if your son is currently supporting himself, but that you DO CALL to let the landlord know about the water bill. You can also request reimbursement from the landlord, for at least part of the bill, if it is caused by his failure to maintain the premises. Taking that approach will preserve your rights, but also potentially set up a landlord/tenant disagreement that may make it easier to get out of the lease if you want. </p>

<p>If your name is NOT on the lease.... then you really need to stay out of it. If your son is supporting himelf with his job, then it really is his business to decide whether he wants to stay there. If you are supportiong your son, then it is a matter to be resolved between you and your son, without involving the landlord.</p>

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<p>It's none of my business, and I am sorry to have nothing very useful to contribute, but, there seem to be some things that are at odds with how I generally understand things to work. For one thing, I find it unusual that the meter reader of a utility accepts payment on the sidewalk. Wouldn't they generally direct payments to an office? Second, how and why would the same utility employee say there's a leak (vs. simply a lot of water usage)?</p>

<p>And why is a 3.5 required to remain in an honors college? In my experience (admittedly limited) 3.0 is the line. It strikes me that 3.5 may be unreasonable, especially for am engineering student.</p>