<p>Boy, I love these sports analogies. It always helps with the denial if you can muster a good football story. Every fall I read a newspaper article about some kid in Texas (or another hot state) who dies in the middle of football practice, dehydrated and with a body temperature of 107 degrees and some coach who wouldn't let the kids take the shoulder pads off. You're using coaches as an example of good crises interventionists?</p>
<p>
[quote]
Once my D was playing soccer, this big girl, with two years on my D, kept tripping her during play, but off ball, the ref was not doing enough, so I ran onto field, and yelled at coach, and the girl, right in her face, you could see her chasing my D during the game just to knock her down, and the ball was not ont hat side of the field even...I was afraid D would get really hurt</p>
<p>I threatened to call game...I was furious...and we did eventually walk off of field...
[/quote]
</p>
<p>The next part of this drama could have easily been the Bully Girl's Mean Mama shooting you (Soccer Mom Rage?)! </p>
<p>What kind of soccer league was this?</p>
<p>Coach does not equal mama. Corporate managers, thank god, do not equal mama. Again, mama does not have to treat 18-year old like a 6-year old, but there is a middle ground...I always hated those square jaw guys who stood by the soccer field yelling at their little guys, "Get tough!" The kids didn't even have all their teeth:).</p>
<p>I was the coach, and the ref was incompentent and this girl almost broke my girls ankle...so I called the game after another 5 minutes of brutal play, I wold expect nothing less from another coach if the ref was useless</p>
<p>by walk off the field I mean we pulled the team and risked forfieting the game due to violence from other players</p>
<p>sure soccer is tought, i played but to deliberately go after any player with the sole purpose of hurting them is uncalled for</p>
<p>as it turned out, we weren't the first team to complain about ref and the other players, but we were the first to take a stand and walk off of field....</p>
<p>citygirlsmom, thanks for clarifying that you were the coach. That puts an entirely different light on it...I feel you have a responsibility to the team when you are the coach...
Blossom..you are very eloquent. I have not posted on this one because I am at a loss..my heart goes out to the OP but I don't know what to advise except that I feel for her and her son..</p>
<p>CGM, I am so impressed that as a coach you took that stance. It is so important to teach young children that there is more than winning and to rise above unsportsmanlike conduct of others. In all the years that my son played soccer (from 5 through high school), he had one coach who exhibited this admirable quality--and he was a past olympian and world cup player.</p>
<p>I'm guessing that CGM would have taken the same action if someone on her team, other than her daughter, was the one being bullied.</p>
<p>of course I would have...</p>
<p>Alumom,</p>
<p>Sorry I don't think you get it. And my mother wouldn't take offense. At what age do you let your child make and more importantly LIVE with their decisions? 18,20 ,30, 40 ,50? When do you cut the strings? </p>
<p>You're giving me a hard time because my mom didn't care to hear me whine about the end of the world cause my gf wanted to date someone else. Sorry, I guess should have dried my tear and said it's OK Honey, I'll call her and we'll straighten it out. Then I could go back to breastfeeding. </p>
<p>By the way, I'm fairly liberal and vote mostly demo as if that makes a difference in when you pass personal responsibility onto your kids. Taking responsibility for one's self is not particular to one party or another. I don't know why you would imply it. </p>
<p>My point was let them figure it out, someday they'll have real problems and what skills will they know from their own experiences? Mom will always save me? </p>
<p>That's nice and all, but what kind of son do want. One that when knee deep in the stuff he made, calls for momma or one that figures I got myself into this mess, I can wade out? </p>
<p>I know the parenting urge is strong in alot of people, myself included. But just exactly how do you help a child who never gets the chance to skin his knees? What happens when your not around anymore?</p>
<p>Skinning a knee is hardly comparable to have one's life ruined. If any one of us were in over our heads, I would hope that we would have someone that cared enough to advise us or lend us a hand.</p>
<p>Hi again, the big question seems to be how tough tough love should be. When the assistant dean called me back to say that he would try to contact my S, I told him that I was really concerned because the guy was there to turn off the water, and I payed to have it on. His response was, Sure, what parent wouldnt? I do not think that not having water in a desert is a good idea. </p>
<p>Just to clarify a few things that people have asked about.About the financial support, like I mentioned in the beginning, I am a single parent, and I have been working two jobs a lot to get ahead a little and give my S some educational opportunities that would enable him to me successful in college and perhaps get a scholarship. As you might be aware, becoming a national merit finalist is not an easy thing, and many people have to work with a student to get to that point. I am sure that a large part of my S not wanting to talk about this is the number of people who he feels he will have let down.</p>
<p>The difference between the scholarship amount and his initial expenses and computer and car were paid for with money we had put away for college over the years, and money I gave him from time to time, as he asked for it. In the summer, he had one other job that was pretty much full time before he got the job he currently has. However, the arrangement that I thought we had agreed to was that he would stay with me over the summer and then move to a different dorm for this year. When he decided to take the lease, he thought he could get his full scholarship, which includes money for room and board. In addition to working and me giving him some money, he should have had enough. But, again, since we never had any kind of discussion about the financial ramifications of him getting an apartment, I was not prepared to help him with rent for the summer. And if he had told me that he had to take these classes to keep his scholarship, I would not have expected him to work. But I didnt. </p>
<p>Now that the situation is what it is, he does not have as much of a scholarship as he did last year. The apartment is costing way more than he thought it would, but no, he does not want to move out. I have given him probably close to 1000 dollars in the last 2 months, but I have no idea what his expenses are. If the rent is about 600, that would have just covered one month of that. Again, he made these choices, so that he did not have to live with me, even over the summer. There is still some money from what we saved, so if he needs money to live while he is attending classes, I suppose that I could assist with that, from a the money is there standpoint, but not a tough love standpoint. But I have offered him money, and he does not often take me up on it. Yet he is not paying utilities. He wants to be independent, especially because his girlfriend has no parents to speak of, and she is not dependent on anyone (although she does then qualify for government things like health insurance, which the rest of us do not.) When he first told me that she is not really in touch with her parents, I knew this was a bad thing, but there is not much parents can do about that kind of situation that will improve anything. </p>
<p>I do feel badly for him because he was so excited about going to this school in this major, but we had talked about him switching majors if it got too hard for him to keep his grades up. But I think that he was unprepared for how fast his grades went from good to not meeting where they needed to be. He did say that when he became overwhelmed, that he got depressed and didnt try much after that. </p>
<p>I think that he has somehow gotten it into his head that accepting any help from anyone is admitting that he cannot fix his own problems, which some of you would agree with. Yet, there are not a lot of students who are supporting themselves while in college full time. I guess that it just has not occurred to me (well, because I did not know that he did not get all the scholarship money) to even offer to pay all his living expenses, so he could quit work and get his grades up. Jeeze. </p>
<p>I think the other thing that is a problem is that in high school he could take other courses besides math and science to balance the course load, like art and music. That is not an option in this school. And this school is way larger than the high school that he graduated from, so that there is no one there who is going to nag him if he starts to get off track. Yes, that is the expectation of lots of large colleges. Lots of us need someone to nag us from time to time. Perhaps the expectations have been too high, and then he added another level to the expectations for himself, by taking more classes than he needed to.</p>
<p>A good friend of mine has a son that did virtually the same thing, except he married the girl, she charged his credit cards up and did not go to work or school. Eventually they divorced. He has not yet returned to school. It was not like my S was unaware of how easy it was to lose a scholarship. I guess that lots of people just think that these things wont happen to them. </p>
<p>I did not call the landlord. I am not sure that I accept the comparison between paying for a college students living expenses and assaulting someone in a sports event, but I do see that there are lots of situations where parents have to stay on the sidelines.</p>
<p>Kpm, it is impossible to draw the line where a parent should not intervene in any given case. It so depends on the players in the situation. My son's close friend who is a newly commissioned officer in the armed forces recently got into some trouble. His mother, who is a close friend of mine called me to ask if I could get her in touch with my brother who is a commanding officer for advice. Upon calling my brother and telling him the situation, his response was, "sure, I'll talk to him". When I explained that it was the mother who wanted to talk to him, there was a stone silence for a moment. He then asked me to confirm that we were talking about a commissioned officer, and that it was his MOTHER that was trouble shooting the situation. He then asked me if the young man was going to call his mother when "ela-frigging Aquida" was going to be shooting at his back (but he did not say frigging or back). Well, he was absolutely right, but as a mother of a 23 year old myself, I could understand why the mom wanted to help. Soon enough would come the time when she would not be able to help even in the particular situation at hand.</p>
<p>And so it is with this situation. It seems to me that the young man is pretty much up to his chin in trouble. If mom is willing and able to help him out, fine. If he continues with the type of mentality and judgement that his predicament points to, he will soon be in similar hot water soon. There comes a point when a parent sadly realizes that he/she can no longer help. That point is different for all of us. We can all give our perspectives on what to do, say what we would do, what we have done, but when all is said, it is a decision that the individual has to make, hopefully keeping in mind the advice and warnings that some of us who have gone down this path are offering.
I hope that this quagmire is just an accumulation of one time bad judgments made in succession and that your son learns from this. Hopefully there are not other landmines involved--drugs, debts, lies, etc. If your son is ready to sit down and go over the issues and problems at hand, and can work with you to solve them, it may well be the best thing to help him out. On the other hand, if he is being uncooperative, secretive, and obdurate about things, he just might need life's big boot to give him a kick to see the light.</p>
<p>"I am a single parent, and I have been working two jobs a lot to get ahead a little and give my S some educational opportunities that would enable him to me successful in college and perhaps get a scholarship. "</p>
<p>You are doing a backbreaking lot of work to help your son. I am wondering what kind of loans that your S has taken out. </p>
<p>"The apartment is costing way more than he thought it would, but no, he does not want to move out. I have given him probably close to 1000 dollars in the last 2 months, but I have no idea what his expenses are. If the rent is about 600, that would have just covered one month of that. Again, he made these choices, so that he did not have to live with me, even over the summer."</p>
<p>It seems to me that you are being very responsible and are taking on a lot to help him. To me, he does not seem to be doing his fair share, including being clear about his expenses, and not doing things that he can't afford.</p>
<p>Personally, I think it's selfish and shortsighted for him to have rented an apartment that he can't afford, and then to be relying on you -- a single parent working 2 jobs -- to provide the $ he needs to keep it. </p>
<p>Again, I suggest counseling for you to help you best discern what the situation is and what your best options are. It would be a worthwhile investment, and would probably help you more than advice from strangers on a message board who don't really know what your and your son's situation is.</p>
<p>I think that failing or nearly failing out of college is becoming more common. There are 60 employees in my work place and 3 (5%) of them have college aged children who were successful in high school but have been asked to leave or been put on academic probation in college. And that mirrors what I hear outside of work. </p>
<p>And not all students fail because of drugs or alcohol. Students who don't know how to manage time (and don't learn), who have poor problem solving skills, and /or who make poor decisions with their new found freedom and then don't know how to regroup and are too embarrassed or proud to admit they need help are also at risk of failing. It's also common for very bright students with unidentified Learning Disabilities and or ADHD to finally be sufficiently challenged in college that they can't continue to adequately compensate for for their unidentified disability.
The right response to the failure of launching children is going to vary with each child. Some need the space to fall apart and learn from their experiences. Others would be depressed and suicidal with no support. We can't judge what is right for somebody else's child--at best we can share our experiences and what worked for us, and/ or our support for the parent(s) going through this experience. All of the parents that I know who have gone through this kind of experience have felt tremendously worried and stressed. Many have felt embarrassed and alone.
Thanks to the OP and all of the posters who have shared their own experiences. Your honesty is a courageous gift.</p>
<p>I think that failing or nearly failing out of college is becoming more common. There are 60 employees in my work place and 5% of them have college aged children who were successful in high school but have been asked to leave or been put on academic probation in college. And that mirrors what I hear outside of work. </p>
<p>And not all students fail because of drugs or alcohol. Students who don't know how to manage time (and don't learn), who have poor problem solving skills, and /or who make poor decisions with their new found freedom and then don't know how to regroup and are too embarrassed or proud to admit they need help are also at risk of failing. It's also common for very bright students with unidentified Learning Disabilities and or ADHD to finally be sufficiently challenged in college that they can't continue to adequately compensate for for their unidentified disability.
The right response to the failure of launching children is going to vary with each child. Some need the space to fall apart and learn from their experiences. Others would be depressed and suicidal with no support. We can't judge what is right for somebody else's child--at best we can share our experiences and what worked for us, and/ or our support for the parent(s) going through this experience. All of the parents that I know who have gone through this kind of experience have felt tremendously worried and stressed. Many have felt embarrassed and alone.
Thanks to the OP and all of the posters who have shared their own experiences. Your honesty is a courageous gift.</p>
<p>One of my closest friends has a D. who had to leave school after soph. year --after being on academic probation and sitting out a semester. She also was noncompliant with ADD meds, was drinking way too much, missing classes and finally totaled car along with a DUI. Because she is out of school, she is no longer on mom's insurance, must start paying back her school loans, has to work and has no car.</p>
<p>This has worried and embarrassed my friend tremendously. As hard as it as been she has allowed D. to find her own way along with giving her emotional support and some financial support (insurance and helping with rides to work). The D. now is trying her hand at modeling while working as a waitress. Her mom is hoping that all the hard work of those two jobs will eventually entice her back to college.</p>
<p>My thoughts are with you and I hope that your son soon finds his way in the best way that he can.</p>
<p>Opie. </p>
<p>What kind of son do I want? That is not the issue. The issue is what kind of son do I have. What kind of son do I have.</p>
<p>What is the mantra on cc? Love the kid you have. And as many have pointed out, parental love takes many forms and takes its true form when we are in the service of those little beings we gave birth to.Whether we are tough or mushy, what is in the service of those little beings.</p>
<p>"Skinning a knee is hardly comparable to have one's life ruined. If any one of us were in over our heads, I would hope that we would have someone that cared enough to advise us or lend us a hand."</p>
<p>Is his life REALLY ruined? REALLY? He has screwed up for sure, but is his life ruined? </p>
<p>I admit mom is an a tough situation, because she cares more about her son than the son cares about himself right now. That is a parent's lament. The problem becomes how does she get him to care about himslef? Does providing money solve the situation? Does money make him care about himself more or less? </p>
<p>Maybe mom's best help would be to ask him how he sees himself in five years. What's his plan? Does he have one? Until he adopts his own plan, there won't be any action. Mom could simply help by asking he question and then listening to the answer.. let him talk it out. He has to figure it out.</p>
<p>He is far from the first kid to let his groin lead him away from what he should be concentrating on. I'll bet money that's how this all started, time that could have been spent in study was instead spent on a GF (or BF it's universal) who wasn't in school and I'm sure demanded alot of attention. Now that's she leaving the picture, maybe he can refocus on what he wants. </p>
<p>The offer should be emotional support and a willing ear. She doesn't have to cut him off finanically completely (buy him dinner sometime, etc..) but in order for him to get back ontrack HE does have to take the bull by the horns. </p>
<p>There is nothing, absolutely nothing wrong with him rejecting too much help. In fact that is the first good quality mentioned. Maybe it takes him longer to get where he wants to be than the next guy, so what? If he needs to do it on his terms, be proud of that and maybe tell him so. </p>
<p>It is not a mistake, just a different way to go about it. Every road leads to the city, some are expressways, some are highways and some are country roads. All the roads lead to the right place, you'll just arrive at different times and see different things along the way.</p>
<p>............. It is not a mistake, just a different way to go about it. Every road leads to the city, some are expressways, some are highways and some are country roads. All the roads lead to the right place, you'll just arrive at different times and see different things along the way...................</p>
<p>Wonderful analogy!! Basically says it all.</p>
<p>Okay, the son COULD have moved back to a dorm with his expenses all taken care of, not have to work so much and had more time to concentrate on school work</p>
<p>HE CHOSE to move in with honey, and not live with mom, thus creating a big ripple effect of<br>
having to work to pay rent,and utilities, and food, and transportation (gas)
not having enough free time to study, get to classes, etc</p>
<p>These are the CONSEQUENCES of a very clear choice he made</p>
<p>He is not 12, he is 19...and if he was capapable enough to find an apartment, move himslef there, figure out how to take summer classes, this kid is not clueless...</p>
<p>He doesnt want to move out...he has made his decision</p>
<p>So your choices are, bail him out because heaven forbid he should have to live with the consequences of a decision he wants to keep, or let him liv with his choices</p>
<p>As I said before, he is capable to make decision, bad ones, but he is not an idiot in that regard....</p>
<p>If you want to help, you can give him information- if dorms are still available, etc., but he has made his choice....</p>
<p>When my H came here 25 years ago, he lived in pretty icky places...his mom would have been mortified, but it was his choice...he worked, he took a different path, but he had a work ethic, so he did well</p>
<p>and why would you call landlord, what is the point</p>
<p>I understnad wanting to do for your son, I go out of my way for my daughters, but they need to do their "jobs" -and one of those jobs is to learn from mistakes, if you mess up, be honest about so I can help, and to know when to reverse a bad decision if possible</p>
<p>If your son is being stubborn about keeping that apartment,,,,you can help him pay for it, sure....that would be up to you....</p>
<p>what people need to learn is that, unfair as it is, you can't have it all...this scholarship, while tough to keep that GPA was an opportunity for your son...and I would bet you if he had gotten close to that .3.5, say a 3.0, they would work with him to find a way to keep the scholarship and succeed..the scholarship people don't want students to do poorly, and they set that 3.5 so the kid will try....theyprobably would have put him on probation or whatever</p>
<p>So at this point, you need to decide if you will support your son's decisions and that really has to do with $$....</p>