Advice would be greatly appreciated

Parents Forum
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<p>Well, then, that’s the end of that. It sounds like Fordham is the logical choice.</p>

<p>I want to second what Momma J said. Because of the mental illness, your daughter is still dependent on you to make the adult decision in her life. Going 150K+ into debt for undergrad is a bad plan. Period. Sending your daughter off on her own while she is still incapable/unwilling to manage her meds is an even worse plan.</p>

<p>Yes, she’ll be angry with you but that’s life and, sometimes, it just sucks to be the parent. Best of luck to your family.</p>

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<p>That extra $160-$170k could buy an awful lot of education (if you chose to spend it that way.) 2-3 years of medical school or law school, or an M.A. program. Multiple trips around the world. Unpaid, but wonderful internships, etc., etc. Fordham plus $170k is a no-brainer IF it offers the education she needs, and both you and she can avoid loans.</p>

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<p>I know several successful adults whose BP was diagnosed when they were in high school or college, and although their paths are all different they all have one thing in common- none of them made it through college in 8 consecutive semesters. </p>

<p>I think you need to make a realistic financial plan which ought to include finances for that pesky 5th year, a few semesters of “less than a full course load”, a summer semester to make up for an incomplete or a W, etc. </p>

<p>I don’t want to be a debbie downer here. But even if your D was actively engaged in managing her meds, mindful of sleep and diet, and going off to therapy once a week and dutifully engaging in her treatment… my guess is that any college is going to pose some challenges to her mood and coping mechanisms. But if she’s still dragging her feet on her treatment?</p>

<p>I would assume a 10 semester college experience, figure the finances based on that, and go from there. I suggest explaining to your D, “This is a big decision for you and for our family, and we are not going to allow your friends- as savvy as they may be about a lot of things-- to dictate your decision. It’s not their money, you are not their child.”</p>

<p>Fordham sounds like a fantastic opportunity. Good luck!!!</p>

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<p>The same is true for anyone with any chronic illness: between leaves and reduced course loads, college can take more than 4 years.</p>

<p>You have to contact a disabilities office, specifically. In a smaller college, it can be through a dean’s office or student services, but generally the website will indicate how to get in touch with the disabilities office (accessible education office, whatever euphemism is used).</p>

<p>Here are some accommodations you might want to ask for, and there are many more on various sites online. You can write this up yourself, with a cover letter, and have the psychiatrist sign it. The “health reasons” is to distinguish between legitimate reasons and non-legitimate reasons and it helps if your daughter is scrupulous about this, because it greatly increases credibility and therefore support.</p>

<p>Single room in dorm to maximize sleep and down time
Excused absences for appointments for health reasons
Notes from classes missed if for health reasons
Notes from classes in case of tremor from medications
Extra time on tests or exams (time and a half maximum), classwork, or assigned work if needed
Extensions on papers and projects for health reasons
Incompletes for health reasons
Reduced course load for health reasons
Psychiatry/counseling/advising as needed
Use of Smart Pen, Dragon, Mindmapping software, Kindle, audiotapes if helpful (provided by family)</p>

<p>I would add that there are many, many accomplished people, famous and not famous, who have made contributions to others, to the arts, politics, literature, service. I recommend Kay Redfield Jamison for starters. Here is a list of “famous people with bipolar”: <a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_with_bipolar_disorder[/url]”>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_with_bipolar_disorder&lt;/a&gt; (pardon the Wikipedia, there are others)</p>

<p>Finally, no matter what anyone may think intuitively, the daughter is over 18 and legally an adult, and can make decisions for herself, including not taking meds. The parents are free to respond however they feel is right, as well, in terms, for instance, of paying for college. If the daughter is a danger to herself or others, she can be “pink-slipped” for a few days, but getting true guardianship from a court would be tough. This isn’t relevant to the original poster who is getting along with her daughter and trying to keep her on a positive path but is, I believe, very much on the minds of parents of kids under 18, as they approach that birthday.</p>

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<p>Megan12 your story is very interesting. Which forms of alternative medicine did you find most helpful? Which allergies contributed to problems? I wonder sometimes if college kids have mental health issues come forth due to the classic poor diet, bad sleep habits and crowded living…</p>

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<p>Hugcheck - so glad you asked because it’s such an unusual story, and if I wouldn’t have believed it if I hadn’t seen it with my own eyes. S always had the usual environmental allergies every spring and fall - runny nose, coughing, etc., and they were getting worse every year, so we would get stronger meds. Then his behavior started to get really bad. He was always kind of moody and threw temper tantrums even when he was in elementary school, which is kind of odd for his age. But then when he was 8, everything got so much worse. He would rage for hours and completely destroy the house. It was very, very scary because he had a look in his eyes that I didn’t even recognize. Then hours later, it would be over. He would be fine, but he wouldn’t remember much of the incident.</p>

<p>My mom remembered this diet she had heard about in the 70’s - the Feingold Diet, so we tried it. We were desperate, and we were just about to put him on major drugs - we had nothing to lose. Within 3 or 4 days, his behavior started to improve, and he started sleeping better (he was waking up every night). But he was still spacey at night after dinner, so some members of the Feingold Association suggested we see an Environmental Allergist - I had no idea what that was, but by coincidence, we had one in the area. </p>

<p>He put S on various supplements after running blood tests and started testing his allergies using provocation/neutralization, which is an alternative type of testing. You put a diluted amount of the antigen (allergy) in your arm and see if you’re allergic to it. Sometimes it will even give you the symptoms, so when we did corn, he was jumpy. When we did milk, he was depressed. Wheat made him tired and spacey. And a tree pollen made him so ADD, he was doing laps in the waiting room because he couldn’t sit still. Then we tested mold, and I saw it - that scary anger that made him uncontrollable. The good news is that once you figure out what he’s allergic to, they can find a neutralizing dose (a certain dilution of the allergen) that will turn off the symptoms. It was the most amazing thing I had ever seen - sort of like a sci-fi film, but we were in it!!</p>

<p>10 years later, he still takes those allergy drops under his tongue that keep his allergies under control. They are much, much less now - he’s been desensitized, but some allergies will probably never go away. He is completely stable emotionally, and what I thought was a moody kid, wasn’t. He’s actually a sweet kid with an amazing intellect. And even now, when he goes too long without taking his drops (he forgets most days, and he’s fine), there are times when I see his mood change, and he gets a little snippy or depressed. Once he takes his drops, he starts to feel better.</p>

<p>We also used homeopathy, which also worked wonders, and NAET, which is more like acupuncture without the needles for allergies. And now we use EFT (emotional freedom technique) as well. I never used to believe in alternative medicine, but it saved my son’s life when not one doctor (and we went to a lot) knew what was truly wrong with him. And I can honestly tell you that it really does work. My S would be on psychiatric meds right now for something he doesn’t have if it didn’t. I am so thankful that my mom remembered that diet!!</p>

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<p>I just want to point out that Megan 12 is describing childhood bipolar disorder, which I have read is now diagnosed forty times as often as years past and is somewhat controversial.</p>

<p>Classic “manic depression”, now called bipolar 1, emerges in late teens/early twenties and involves true manic episodes (sometimes psychotic) and depressions (sometimes suicidal). It is often genetic.</p>

<p>Fooling around with food and other allergens can greatly improve health, especially as a supplement to other meds, but avoiding medications such as Lithium, Lamictal (and sometimes anti-psychotics) for bipolar 1 could be dangerous and even life-threatening.</p>

<p>This is coming from someone whose own health, and that of my daughter, greatly improved when we gave up dairy and gluten, so I am not a skeptic, just want to make sure that people out there know that there are different forms of bipolar and that meds are miracles for some.</p>

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<p>Mompom: There is a lot of single-spaced type here . . . that is not always good. If you slown down and take the time to discern the adviceytour friends have given you, there is some great, really useful direction.</p>

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<p>Megan12 I am BLOWN AWAY by your story. How many 1960’s and earlier era schools are mold traps these days. How many old heating systems are spewing pollen and other allergens. Have you seen what a college kid’s room looks like on move out day? The dust bunnies and debris? No wonder mental illness pops out at college. This is immensely important information. If you’ve ever had a beloved family member be struck by mental illness in college (I have a cousin who “came down with” schizophrenia in college) you know how dreadfully important this story is. Especially because you would not have believed it if you had not lived it. Truly a remarkable tale. Should be publicized widely.</p>

<p>What are we doing to our kids? And most people would poo poo your story. You have traveled and AMAZING path. You have saved your child from a life of mental illness. This is just amazing.</p>

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<p>Hugcheck, are you seriously suggesting that psychiatric disorders emerge in college because rooms are messy and heating systems are old? </p>

<p>Bipolar 1, schizophrenia, and other disorders emerge in the college years for a reason. This is an age when the brain is under development, pathways are being created and pruned. Not treating can cause a lot more episodes, and even make the episodes less responsive to treatment later. Also, it is a transitional and stressful time.</p>

<p>Megan and I are talking about apples and oranges. I agree that the childhood behaviors she is describing may too often be overdiagnosed as “bipolar.”</p>

<p>Here, read this: There’s a children’s picture book in the US called Brandon and the Bipolar Bear. Brandon and his bear sometimes fly into unprovoked rages. Sometimes they’re silly and overexcited. A nice doctor tells them they are ill, and gives them medicine that makes them feel much better.The thing is, if Brandon were a real child, he would have just been misdiagnosed with bipolar disorder.Also known as manic depression, this serious condition, involving dramatic mood swings, is increasingly being recorded in American children. And a vast number of them are being medicated for it. The problem is, this apparent epidemic isn’t real. “BIPOLAR EMERGES FROM LATE ADOLESCENCE,” says Ian Goodyer, a professor in the department of psychiatry at the University of Cambridge who studies child and adolescent depression. “It is very, very unlikely indeed that you’ll find it in children under 7 years.”</p>

<p>There is a lot of controversy about this, and a lot of passionate parents who believe their child has bipolar disorder, as young as toddler age. The point I am making is that this is a different form of the illness entirely, and so your comments about college rooms cannot be linked to Megan’s experience with her son.</p>

<p>With the classic bipolar 1 that emerges in later years, there really is no ambiguity or controversy. And there is an urgency to treat to bring someone back into reality and in many cases ensure survival.</p>

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<p>Also, bipolar is one of the most genetically transmitted mental illnesses. There are almost always relatives and ancestors, often in the families of both parents, with bipolar disorder, alcoholism and other addictions, and major depressive disorder. Often, one must ask a lot of questions and dig around a bit in the family history to get at the information, as people often are not forthcoming with it. It is great that Megan was able to help her son in the way that she did, and I am so glad that her son is doing so well. It appears to me, thought, that if one discovers this problem in their family, that they would be remiss in not getting treatment for their child when their child began exhibiting symptoms. </p>

<p>In my experience, doctors do not want to make the diagnosis. My DD’s symptoms began rather dramatically when she started high school. When I look back on what happened at that time, it is clear that it was an episode. However, she was diagnosed with different things and given medication for anxiety and depression that made the problem worse. After switching doctors a number of times and nothing helping my daughter, and many, many hours of my own research, I began to suspect that she had bipolar disorder. When I gave the information to the doctor that my DD was seeing at the time, she told me that she had been thinking about bipolar for awhile, but that she didn’t want to diagnose her with a major mental illness and told me to take her to a different doctor. So we did not have the experience of overdiagnosis at all, even though we presented each doctor with a family history that indicated mental health issues in the extended family.</p>

<p>Thank you, again, for all of the helpful information that you have provided.</p>

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<p>mompom - I hope you don’t think that I would ever suggest that your daughter’s diagnosis was incorrect since I’m not a doctor, and I don’t know her situation at all. I just wanted to share that story because as it was pointed out, young children are often being misdiagnosed with serious mental health issues they don’t actually have.</p>

<p>I still wish you the best, and I hope you find a good solution for her. It’s wonderful that she has you to support her.</p>

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<p>mompom- you’ve gotten lots of great advice. I would just add - you will need to work out getting your daughter to sign off on releases so that you can talk to the disabilities office, the financial office, the advisor, etc., etc. Make sure (before you need them!) the releases are acceptable to the school offices. Our DS knows - no releases, no $. No argument. :-)</p>

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<p>"Hugcheck, are you seriously suggesting that psychiatric disorders emerge in college because rooms are messy and heating systems are old? " </p>

<p>Well, I am suggesting that they might. At least in part for some people.</p>

<p>Poo pooing is easy. Living well with mental illness is not; I know that personally.</p>

<p>I am not suggesting all psychosis comes from this. I am suggesting that some may. Or may in part. I am suggesting that this info should be broadly circulated. I do know that no body, myself especially, knows for sure what causes bipolar disorder and schizophrenia. Same with autism. </p>

<p>I do know that when mothers try to tell their stories they are often ridiculed. Terribly unfortunate and unfair.</p>

<p>Should ppl stop their medication? No way. </p>

<p>Should they check out the allergy angle with their doc’s (or change doc’s until they find one who will work with them on that angle)? It’s up to each family to figure that out. </p>

<p>But people should know important stories about sources of mental illness. This family figured out that this child’s severe symptoms of mental illness were caused by allergies. And as the poster said, this was after seeing many doctors for help with no luck. </p>

<p>Let me repeat - no way should anyone go off prescribed med’s without a doctor’s continuing care and approval.</p>

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<p>“My S was diagnosed in high school with a psychological disorder that required daily medication. I would not in a million years have allowed him to live in a dorm had I not been absolutely certain that he was scrupulous about taking it. Your daughter doesn’t get to “insist” on living in a dorm when she hasn’t shown the maturity to handle her illness. When she has shown she is responsible enough to be self-sufficient in properly managing her meds, sleep schedule, etc., she can live away from home. Until then, commuting or taking a gap year while she grows ups and comes to terms with her situation are the only reasonable and safe options. Accept that she’ll hate you for it, but be comforted that it is absolutely the right thing to do.”</p>

<p>This post is perfect, IMHO. I agree 100%. (Speaking as both a college counselor and as someone who took two gap years to ensure that my mental illness was completely under control before leaving for college.)</p>

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<p>What is your D’s opinion of the various schools and dorm life? You need to consider her thoughts as she will do her best where she, not you, wants her to be. Does she want to go to college? What would she do if she didn’t go? </p>

<p>First- consider finances. Eliminate schools that cost the most money, regardless of their prestige (her HS classmates’ opinions won’t matter in a few months).</p>

<p>Next consider location. Staying in the NYC area seems best for her. Close enough to keep her doctor and for you to be there if needed.</p>

<p>Next consider the disabilities options. Check them out- don’t just rely on what the website states. </p>

<p>Check out the dorm situation. It could be better for her to be on campus instead of commuting. You should check on what the resident assistant can do to be helpful- such as keeping tabs on her and asking if she’s remembering her meds. A peer may have a more positive influence than parents in this. Many “normal” HS students cope a lot better with dorm life than we parents would predict. I was worried about son getting up in time for classes since it was always a struggle at home (we heard the extra loud alarm clock he slept through)- he had no problems because he wanted to be there.</p>

<p>Eliminate schools with the least structure. Forced independence may not be good for your D even though it can be excellent for many students. One of the private schools offering significant financial aid may be able to offer a more restricted environment to help her keep on track, plus a caring attitude. She may thrive with academics suited to her compared to her HS. </p>

<p>Finally- discuss the situation with her doctor. He has insights from his sessions with her along with presumed experience dealing with other young people faced with college decisions.</p>

<p>Your D may be much more compliant with her meds if she feels some control over her life. Make sure it is her decision, with guidance from you. You are in charge of finances and can use that to veto some schools. You can do the research above and present scenarios at some schools to show her how life at one or some schools is most likely to be best for her. You can point out how staying in the NYC area has benefits while allowing her independence from you. Best wishes to her.</p>

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<p>

This is bad advice. It is absolutely not within an RA’s job description to be keeping tabs on students with psychological disorders or reminding them to take their meds. RA’s have plenty to do between their responsibilities within the dorm and their classes. Having to worry about whether some freshman is acting a little off-kilter or took a pill this morning is way beyond the call. OP’s daughter alone will be responsible for her daily care-if she can’t be relied upon to handle it, the answer is to live at home, not put such an enormous burden on another student (be it an RA, friend, or roommate).</p>

<p>I also want to add that megan12 completely undermines the value of her post when she discloses that her kid relies on the nonsense of homeopathic medicine, which has been proven over and over again to be worthless junk science.</p>

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<p>Please don’t assume that any RA (as wonderful and as caring as they may be) has any psychiatric training whatsoever.</p>

<p>My Freshman year roommate- depressed all year, and then suicidal by the end of finals, was dropped off in the dorm by two educated parents who assumed that the RA (nice but clueless) or the roommate (that would be me- also clueless) would “pick up” on the symptoms and get their D to an ER before she could hurt herself.</p>

<p>Besides being a high risk strategy for your D-- imagine what hell you are putting her roommate and RA through.</p>

<p>If your D can’t manage her own meds and her own schedule and her own doctors appointments, plus knowing when she needs sleep or quiet or protein, she is not ready to dorm.</p>

<p>I went to college back in the dark ages (the 1970’s) but I still cannot fathom what was going through this family’s head in assuming that all of us “civilians” would be capable of stepping in and keeping their D healthy and safe when they were unable to do it at home.</p>

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<p>My thinking is that she can only dorm if she is in NYC, where I will be close by, speaking with her daily and can be there in a half hour if she doesn’t sound right. She then can keep seeing the doctor who she has been seeing for the past year, who hopefully will also recognize if she is deteriorating. She also could come home whenever she wants to (or when we think that she needs to) and could commute to classes whenever necessary. </p>

<p>I am thinking that Fordham would be a good place for her, as she has a full tuition merit scholarship there, it is close enough to home, it has small classes (no big lectures where she could get lost in the shuffle) and it seems to have a caring feel to it (further investigations are necessary, but that is what we got from the visit that we made already). </p>

<p>The problem is that she goes to a very competitive high school and the kids are totally obsessed with the rankings in USNWR. Her friends (when she became ill she dropped all of her nice friends and is now friendly with a immature and nasty group) are teasing her about gong to a school that isn’t in the top 20 and telling her that she must go to Vassar, as that it the highest ranked school that she has been accepted to. Vassar would be full pay for us, a few hours away, and would be a big adjustment for a kid who loves city living and the freedom of movement that she has with the great public transportation that she uses to travel all over Manhattan. I think that she would get horribly depressed there.</p>

<p>We tell her that there are many different ways to be successful, that she has already been so successful especially in light of the challenges that she has, and that she needs to do what is best for her and not worry about what anyone says. But it is very hard to compete with the chorus of negativity that she is surrounded by, and she is miserable about the possibility of going to a school that her group looks down on.</p>

<p>My DH and I will speak with the dr soon and hope that he can help us with the mess.</p>

<p>And thank you, again, to everyone who has taken the time to give such thoughtful replies and send us such good information.</p>

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<p>The “friends” aren’t paying the bills, and I’ll bet some of those kids’ parents would be salivating over your d’s full tuition scholarship!</p>