<p>Margit Dahl, Yale's director and acting dean of admissions, in her transcript What Makes a Yalie, states the following:</p>
<p>*Performance in high school courses--i.e., the transcript--is always </p>
<h1>1. A student with 1600 (or now, 2400!) SATs who has not done the job in high school will not be a realistic applicant.</h1>
<h1>2 would be the other measures of academic strength including test scores, academic comments from teachers, etc.</h1>
<p>Once a student looks realistic academically, all of the personal characteristics come into play--commitment to interests/activities, a sense of passion about things, life experiences, etc.*</p>
<p>Remember that admissions to the ivies (which is really the only time AA becomes a really big issue) is about building a diverse well rounded class of students that is aligned with the school's institutional mission. </p>
<p>It is not that stats don't matter but it is not a purely stat driven process (much to the chagrin of many). The ivies know that they are not at a loss of smart people applying to their schools, but they are looking for people that they would like to see on campus and would like to get to know as people. Many people need to ask themselves, "Who am I outside of grades and scores? and Have I done a good of showing this admissions committee who I am"?</p>
<p>Grades and scores, may get you through the first hurdle of the academic process, but it is the subjective criteria that moves your applicaton to the admit, deny, defer or waitlist pile.</p>
<p>I am quite sure that many of you have read through many of the recent ED/EA threads where you found that there were students with "great stats" that were deferred/rejected in the ED round, Guess what many more will be waitlisted/rejected in the RD round.</p>
<p>If that anyone who thinks that it is all about the stats, that they would read the following and become educated because if you think the cost of an education is expensive, try the cost of ignorance:</p>
<p>Recipe for Success" <a href="http://www.williams.edu/alumni/alumnireview/fall05/recipe.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.williams.edu/alumni/alumnireview/fall05/recipe.pdf</a></p>
<p>the thread on the Parent forum: My dinner with an admissions officer</p>
<p>the Parents forum thread: Just how hard admissions can be</p>
<p>Brian Nance's (Dir. of Minority Recruiting at MIT) admissions advice given in his blog 99 problems and admission's is not one</p>
<p>Especially take note of #23, 24, 25 and 26</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Don't rely solely on your 2400 SAT/36 ACT scores to get you into MIT.</p></li>
<li><p>Don't count yourself out if you have considerable lower scores than those listed above. (Ed. note: ...or if you spell like Bryan does.)</p></li>
<li><p>DO NOT EVER BELIEVE THAT IF YOU ARE A STUDENT OF COLOR THAT YOU WILL BE ADMITTED SOLELY BECAUSE OF AFFIRMATIVE ACTION.</p></li>
<li><p>If you are not a student of color don't fall into the trap of thinking you won't be admitted because of Affirmative Action. If you are admitted, it will be because of merit. If not, it wasn't because someone else took your spot.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>and finally Thread: Whoever has the most APs wins? Started in Parents Forum by audiophile on 09-14-2005 Good discussion of how AP classes figure into the "college admissions arms race." </p>
<p>**Post #49, by Ben Jones of the MIT Admissions Office, **</p>
<p>
[quote]
First, the MIT adcom perspective.</p>
<p>I don't know the exact numbers; I couldn't tell you even if I thought it would be helpful. Numbers mean nothing to us because ~70% of our applicant pool is qualified in those terms.</p>
<p>Based on the thousands of apps I saw last year both in selection committee and as a reader, I can tell you that the average # of AP's for admitted kids was 5 or 6 (that's total for all 4 years of HS - i.e. 1-2 per year if evenly distributed). Many admits (most likely the majority) had no college classes. The most common AP's taken were in math and science (no surprise, it's MIT). The overwhelming majority got 4's and 5's on all tests.</p>
<p>I'll pause here to add that I frequently saw kids with perfect SAT scores and perfect grades and a gazillion AP classes get rejected. Why? Because often these kids knew how to grind, but brought nothing else to the table. And that's not who we're looking for at MIT. We admit kids who show genuine passion. Sure AP's can be one of many passion indicators - but I emphasize one of many.</p>
<p>When I was on the road, kids asked me repeatedly whether or not they should take a given AP class.</p>
<p>"Well," I'd respond, "would you be taking it because you genuinely want to, or simply because you think it will get you into college?"</p>
<p>Sometimes they didn't know the difference, which is a tragedy that deserves its own thread. But I digress.</p>
<p>And this is where you all start saying that adcoms are talking out of both sides of our mouths: we encourage kids to follow their hearts in the choices they make, and then as adcoms we want to see that they've taken "the most challenging courseload."</p>
<p>To which I say: guys, I work for MIT! If a kid doesn't want to be taking a challenging courseload in high school, that kid is certainly not going to be happy here.</p>
<p>Quite simply, the students who are happiest here are those who thrive on challenge. Most of our admits have taken AP math and science because they would have been bored silly in the regular classes. Indeed, they genuinely wanted to take those classes. They don't look at MIT as the prize; they look at MIT as the logical next step. It's an important distinction.</p>
<p>That said, AP's are not the only way to demonstrate that one is passionate and likes challenge. Read Anthony's story for an example:
<a href="http://anthony.mitblogs.com/archive..._im_anthon.html%5B/url%5D">http://anthony.mitblogs.com/archive..._im_anthon.html</a></p>
<p>When faced with the choice, we will always choose "the right match*" over numbers. We're not lying when we say that. You've heard me beat that sentiment to death in other threads, so I won't do so here.</p>
<p>(*Match = mission, collaborative spirit, hands-on, balance, character, and passion, among others.)</p>
<p>But the reality is that when you have 10,500+ applications for ~1000 spots and 70% of the pool has great numbers, your pool is going to have plenty of kids who have the passion and the match and the scores/grades/AP's. So we admit those kids - what other choice do we have?</p>
<p>But then (understandably) you guys say "Look! You need X, Y, and Z to get into MIT!" To clarify, we don't require those things; many of our admits just happen to have them. And, I might add, for the right reasons.</p>
<p>This brings me to the more important part, where we toss my affiliation with MIT out the window and I give you my thoughts as a parent.</p>
<p>There is only one coin. There are many sides to the coin, but there is only one coin. And you can flip it however you like.</p>
<p>So when a parent says to me, "Why does HYPSM put so much emphasis on AP's?" I reply "Why do you put so much emphasis on HYPSM?" When a parent says "My kid's value as a person/student shouldn't be measured by how many AP's he/she has taken" I say "...and your kid's value as a person/student shouldn't be measured by whether or not he/she goes to HYPSM." I could go on and on.</p>
<p>There are literally hundreds of amazing colleges and universities out there (some of which actually admit kids with no AP's!). Many of them would actually be better matches for your child. Many of them would provide your child with a better education. Most importantly, many of them would ultimately give your child a greater sense of happiness and fulfillment. The right match will do that.</p>
<p>And the match goes both ways. We try to determine if your kid is a good match for MIT. Your kid should be trying to determine which school is the best match for him/her. As a parent, what are you doing to help him/her figure that out?</p>
<p>Here's a hint: if you're spending time obsessing that a lack of AP's is going to keep your kid out of Stanford, you're missing the point.</p>
<p>As I told the kids in my blog, I had a wonderful college experience that I wouldn't trade for anything, at a school that is currently only #23 on the USNWR LAC list (The HORROR!). I got a phenomenal education and can certainly hold my own against any Ivy grad. As a bonus I got to grow up, get married, have kids, buy a house, land a great job, and enjoy life.</p>
<p>I took one AP class in high school.</p>
<p>Make sure your kids are choosing their schools for the right reasons. Name, status, "brand" - these are not the right reasons. Let your kids be kids. Let them follow their hearts. Encourage them to have a present, not just a future. Don't let them define themselves by which colleges accept them - and don't let them define themselves by doing things only to get into certain colleges.</p>
<p>The machine is fed from all sides. USNWR, the media in general, the GC's, the parents, the colleges and universities, the high-priced independent counselors, the test prep people...</p>
<p>My kids are still many years away from college, and I'm no expert on the parent side of this process. But I do know one thing: I will fight to protect them from all of this, to help them with perspective and clarity. Because if I don't, who will?</p>
<p>Because if we don't, who will?</p>
<p>-B
[/quote]
</p>
<p>all the best</p>