<p>"Blacks aren't the greatest test-takers in general."</p>
<p>that made no sense whatsoever.</p>
<p>I should have phrased it better.</p>
<p>I meant: In people's minds, or according to studies, maybe blacks don't score highest on tests. I don't see why this matters; it's just a test. There is more to a person and an education than letters and numbers. If they got lower scores, does this mean they are less qualified for a top school?</p>
<p>If they are less qualified, I apologize. I didn't realize the prestige of Harvard/other top school is based on how high their students can score on tests.</p>
<p>
[QUOTE]
All AA does is allow for URMS to become dependent on people to give them what they want. What the real solution is to give URMS the tools/infrastructure they need to take steps toward educational "equality", not spoon feed them like this.
[/QUOTE]
</p>
<p>Exactly, Affirmative Action is a band aid thathas been placed on top of a a constantly growing wound. And there are two problem here coming from the perspective of an URM:</p>
<p>1) That wound is growing more and more and the band aid is not healing it. You said it yourself, we should be giving them the tools/infrastructure they need to take steps toward educational "equality", particularly blacks, but that is problem #1... find me a leader of this nation who is ready to step forward and take on that task. </p>
<h1>2) Second issue, the bigger issue, for all of you who want to end affirmative action right now, tell what are you going to put over that wound once you remove the band aid? If you can't come up with a better plan and preparation to implement it, then I'd say you would be no greater a politician or decision maker than the ones we have now.</h1>
<p>Undoing nearly 400 years of economic and social dispairity is not an easy task and it doesn't look we have any alternatives arising, since the only power great enough to take on such a task would be the federal government, and there focus is definitely not on education, we have nothing else. So to those who suggest an end to affirmative action, removing the one solution that colleges have in place, no matter how limited or ineffective, without putting something else in place is no solution at all.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I meant: In people's minds, or according to studies, maybe blacks don't score highest on tests. I don't see why this matters; it's just a test. There is more to a person and an education than letters and numbers. If they got lower scores, does this mean they are less qualified for a top school?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>there was a psychology study done at stanford not too long ago, where they took equal caliber asian, black, and white students in math. they were then separated into two groups and given a math test. </p>
<p>one group was not told anything and just did the math test. the asians, blacks, and whites all scored the same. </p>
<p>the other group was told that asians are good in math (or was it test-taking?) and blacks aren't as good. the asians ended up with the highest scores, the whites were in the middle, and the blacks scored the lowest.</p>
<p>self-fulfilling prophecy by racism?</p>
<p>kfc...wasn't that article on an ACT practice exam? I'm pretty sure it was haha...</p>
<p>i dunno maybe? i've never taken the ACT nor any of its practice exams before. i learned about it from a college psych class.</p>
<p>Affirmative action is a bunch of bull. Here are some inrefutable facts for you number-lovers.</p>
<ol>
<li>Average SAT for whites and asians > average SAT for URMs.</li>
<li>mental capacity of whites/asians = mental capacity of URMs</li>
<li>average income of whites/asians > average income of URMs</li>
<li>What can account for lower SAT scores? Oh yes, income does and not race. Favor should be based on socioeconomic factors rather than an arbitary race factor.</li>
</ol>
<p>There are white kids in trailer parks without text books, and black kids like Carleton Banks who are richer than hell. Like it or not, AA is a form of racism.</p>
<p>At top schools:
Exceptionally Qualified White: Accepted
Exceptionally Qualified Black: Accepted</p>
<p>Highly Qualified White: REJECTED
Highly Qualified Black: Accepted</p>
<p>Lazy White: rejected
Lazy Black: ACCEPTED</p>
<p>Very Lazy White: rejected
Very Lazy Black: rejected</p>
<p>Tell me that's fair. If so, well then I guess the Supreme Court disagrees with you.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The freedom of assembly includes the freedom not to assemble. Your land, your assembly. The government forcing you to associate with someone is not freedom of association, because it is forced.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>It does not. The supreme court has ruled that discrimination in housing is not legal. You are free to move if someone moves into your neighborhood, but you're not allowed to deny them the right to purchase it if they have money.</p>
<p>Gentleman, that's a faulty comparison and you know it. Those are not the only factors at work. Income is ONE predictor, there are others. For example, consider the gap between white females and white males... their average incomes are absolutely, irrefutably equal. They are also equally capable (Some could argue that girls tend to be harder workers, even). So what now?</p>
<p>You again Aeggie? Christ you are thick-skulled. </p>
<p>Alright I know your all gung-ho about the "black people have unseen social pressures put on them" or "housing makes them go to worse schools."</p>
<p>Guess what: I'm white and where I live I'm forced to go to a certain school, and that school isn't rich or prestigious or anything. In fact, most of its money is spent on the goddamn football team rather than text books. So don't talk to me about that bull.</p>
<p>Being able to identify some sort of unmeasurable social factors or social obstacles or personal racism experiences on an individual to individual basis is ludacris.</p>
<p>Btw, this is the 21st Century! Have you seen Oprah lately? Both whites and males have to walk on eggshells about what they say now.
Look at the Chappelle show for Christ sake.
I would like you to give me proof on how so many of the educated members of our society are racist.</p>
<p>Okay, so throw all that out, but keep in mind that white males and white females do not score at the same level on these tests. We know that they are equally capable, and we also know that their levels of income are equal, or so near-equal that it doesn't matter. Explain it.</p>
<p>If you guys have read Malcolm's fabulous book "Blink: The Power of Thinking Without Thinking," studies have shown that blacks score HALF of what they would score if they did not indicate their race before the test, in accordance with what kfc4u said.</p>
<p>"mental capacity of whites/asians = mental capacity of URMs"
The American Psychological Association disagrees. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ#The_view_of_the_American_Psychological_Association%5B/url%5D">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ#The_view_of_the_American_Psychological_Association</a>
Aeggie Harvard is an institution with many scholars with varying opinions. Therefore, Harvard cannot agree with you.
Harvard's Steven Pinker believes in a genetic and environmental explanation of intelligence/performance.</p>
<p>Correction: four idiots at Harvard agree with you Aeggie, not some obscure being that somehow represents the pile of bricks that is Harvard. I'd wager that there are an equal amount of experts against AA at Harvard, if one was willing to dig up the sources.</p>
<p>Anyhow, Harvard and these other institutions that implement AA in various secretive ways other than quotas (declared unconstitutional by Supreme Court, which, last time I checked, has both more authority and merit than four obscure idiots at Harvard) have an agenda and thus will create arguments to support their 'agenda.' The 'agenda' of these schools is to force diversity as to improve public relations and perhaps calm the ignorant, loud-mouth black alumni who is screaming and making wild, unfounded accusations that the institution is racist, simply because there are more qualified whites/asians than URMs, either because of economic factors or due to the fact that minorities are MINORITIES of the population.</p>
<p>(btw, if I get accepted into Harvard and type some article on how AA is bull, can I say that Harvard clearly sides against you? Just wondering)</p>
<p>Don't come in here screaming this reverse-discrimination garbage. Whites and males are not victimized by blacks and feminists, at least not in any significant way. Politicians pander to both groups while campaigning, but they aren't being bullied into enacting any actual policies. Whites hold most of the power in America, unquestionably. How many female senators have there been? How many black ones? </p>
<p>You're whining because you can't say what you want about those durn darkies and feminists? Like your freedoms are being encroached? You're a moron.</p>
<p>Educated racists... let's see... How[/url</a>] [url=<a href="http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/09/30/bennett.comments/index.html">http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/09/30/bennett.comments/index.html</a>] could that happen</a> in today's</a> enlightened society?</p>
<p>Ashernm, check out the genetics vs. environment portion of that chart... genetically, race does not exist. Period. Therefore, it can not be used to explain score gaps. Common sense would then indicate that environment must be affecting scores.</p>
<p>Obviously I wasn't saying the brick buildings at Harvard agree with me. It is painfully clear that what I said HAD to be a figurative statement. It's not cryptic or hard to decipher... you just can't have any valid argument to come at me with. You asked for someone educated that agreed with me. I gave you several.</p>
<p>You're right, Aeggie.</p>
<p>Race does not exist, it is a human construct.</p>
<p>Thus, it should not be used to admit certain lazy people because their skin is darker.</p>
<p>It is a social construct that has social consequences. It is acknowledged in culture and affects people's lives. Don't play dumb.</p>
<p>Oh, so its not genetics that makes blacks black? Gee, I guess they keep it a big secret that they paint their face. There are internet services that can trace your lineage. Is that not race? Race is just a large extended family. Read the Steven Pinker citations here, and commentary if you'd like: <a href="http://www.vdare.com/sailer/pinker_progress.htm%5B/url%5D">http://www.vdare.com/sailer/pinker_progress.htm</a></p>
<p>On Amazon, The Blank Slate, <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0142003344/qid=1134958493/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-0666354-7959957?n=507846&s=books&v=glance%5B/url%5D">http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0142003344/qid=1134958493/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-0666354-7959957?n=507846&s=books&v=glance</a></p>
<p>I didn't see what you were referring to on Wikipedia. Please quote it or give me the specific wording.</p>
<p>I'm not trying to prove to you that race does indeed exist, but merely extending myself credibility by showing Pinker's support.</p>
<p>Since Aeggie is so dumbly blind as well as a racist hic, I'll part with these final thoughts, then leave this post and monitor forever, giving me the last laugh:</p>
<p>I think Aeggie loves sucking black c ock.</p>
<p>And, of course, it is genetics that give blacks their facial features and skin tone, .etc... however, this </p>
<p>"The more closely researchers examine the human genome (the complement of genetic material encased in the heart of almost every cell of the body) the more most of them are convinced that the standard labels used to distinguish people by "race" have little biological meaning. "</p>
<p>""Race is a social concept, not a scientific one," said Dr. J. Craig Venter, head of the Celera Genomics Corporation in Rockville, Md. "We all evolved in the last 100,000 years from the same small number of tribes that migrated out of Africa and colonized the world.""</p>
<p>"About .01 percent of our genes are reflected in our external appearances and because this tiny percent together with the high percentage of ignorance many humans were relegated to enslavement and genocide."</p>
<p>"By contrast with the tiny number of genes that make some people dark-skinned and doe-eyed, and others as pale as napkins, scientists say that traits like intelligence, artistic talent and social skills are likely to be shaped by thousands, if not tens of thousands, of the 80,000 or so genes in the human genome, all working in complex combinations. "</p>
<p>There are, of course, other views, and a few are presented there.</p>
<p>Mrgentleman continues to unwittingly manipulate irony in many profound and interesting ways...</p>